Champions Hockey League

SoundAndFury

Registered User
May 28, 2012
12,139
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This was the last true Champions hockey league. I remember interest was really high, arenas were packed. You cant have "Champions league" and not having KHL teams. It's like having Uefa CL without Premiership or without Real and Barcelona.

I do like watching CHL, good hockey, but you have that feeling something is missing...
:rolleyes:

Well that's what happens when one country wants to act like they can take over hockey in the entire continent, have every expansion project collapse, start a war because money for the soft power adventures that don't yield any results is running out and they are left playing in their own sandbox with half of the team struggling to even keep up the appearances of their glorified Superleague.
 
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vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,550
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This was the last true Champions hockey league. I remember interest was really high, arenas were packed. You cant have "Champions league" and not having KHL teams. It's like having Uefa CL without Premiership or without Real and Barcelona.

I do like watching CHL, good hockey, but you have that feeling something is missing...
Agree.

It is more complicated with CHL 2008 .... there is too much dishonest from some guys who are bashing the KHL / original sponsors for its cancelation. Not all truth has been circulating in media. There were multiple reasons for CHL cancelation. Financial crisis, but this issue was not crutial. Original sponsors were not satisfied with marketing partner, therefore the agreement of original sponsors with IIHF about one-year postponement with preferential right of original sponsors in case of re-starting. Later the NHL came to the scene demading the majority ownership in CHL, original sponsors wanted 50/50 share, which was refused by NHL. If you are interested in this history case, try to google. Basically, what is happening now in CHL / European hockey started in these days. Some people running European hockey wanted more power than they ever had. Hoping they will find out in their retirement what bad disservice they did to European hockey. Finally, you can not organise such a tournament without resources. They tried & failed as we can see now, in CHL 2024.
 

Old Man Jags

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Mar 25, 2006
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Just so happens that no Czech team has ever won it. Surely only because they don't want to, and not because their league is weak.
This is a rather pointless comment. It is a fact that nobody watches the CHL until the final. And before you make silly assumptions, you should perhaps know what you are talking about. The coach said that he personally likes the CHL because it is a great opportunity to play against good teams from other countries and different playing systems. He likes it from a sporting perspective but says that nobody wants to watch it. Which is true. The quarterfinal Sparta just played in Sweden was played in front of a pretty empty stadium. The CHL is badly organized, fans don’t watch it for some reason and it is loss-making EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Czech club owners don’t particularly like it because they make no money with it. Nothing to do with the league being weak - a Czech club probably won’t win it but quarterfinals or semifinals are no surprise.

In contrast, a Czech football club will probably never play a football CL semifinal again because the league is far too weak for it. Yet Czech football clubs love the CL. Why? Because it makes a huge amount of money, is very prestigious and fans watch it.
 
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Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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Sure it's not the premier competition that the Champions League in soccer is, but which domestic league is doing much better? The latest SHL weekday game in Växjö also had similar attendance.

If Sparta makes more money against Mountfield then good for them. They can always leave the CHL and do a longer domestic schedule instead if that's what the fans there want. Improving the CHL would rather mean more CHL games. But soccer money there's never going to be in any part of European hockey, not domestic and not continental.
 

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,550
1,347
This is a rather pointless comment. It is a fact that nobody watches the CHL until the final. And before you make silly assumptions, you should perhaps know what you are talking about. The coach said that he personally likes the CHL because it is a great opportunity to play against good teams from other countries and different playing systems. He likes it from a sporting perspective but says that nobody wants to watch it. Which is true. The quarterfinal Sparta just played in Sweden was played in front of a pretty empty stadium. The CHL is badly organized, fans don’t watch it for some reason and it is loss-making EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Czech club owners don’t particularly like it because they make no money with it. Nothing to do with the league being weak - a Czech club probably won’t win it but quarterfinals or semifinals are no surprise.

In contrast, a Czech football club will probably never play a football CL semifinal again because the league is far too weak for it. Yet Czech football clubs love the CL. Why? Because it makes a huge amount of money, is very prestigious and fans watch it.
Agree.

I will again repeat my words. How is it possible that the CHL management allows Eisbären/Frölunda (others?) to play their CHL games at back-up arena instead of their main venue (Uber Arena/Scandinavium). By this decision they are degrading the competition, showing how much they value it. And yes, I know, people would not fill 12000+ arena for that matches. But you can not do what they have been doing ....
 

Goodman68

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Jul 11, 2016
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Just so happens that no Czech team has ever won it. Surely only because they don't want to, and not because their league is weak.
A weak league would be one whose participants would regularly be eliminated in the group stage, or at the very beginning of the knockout stage. But not one whose participants played in the final several times.
 

Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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Two 2nd places in 9 years and 5th place in the ranking isn't exactly stellar given that the serious competition is really just between 5 leagues.
 

Goodman68

Registered User
Jul 11, 2016
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Considering that some teams outright sabotaged the league (at one time even the later finalist from Hradec Králové), it is certainly not a bad result :cool:
And Czech teams have more final or semi-final appearances than Germans or Swiss (if I'm not mistaken, I don't want to look for it).
 
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Namejs

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Dec 24, 2011
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Oslo
Success isn't measured by the sheer number of attendees. You can build a brand new ice rink with 50,000 seats for 20 billion euros and fill it with 50,000 people by handing out tickets for free or paying them vodka and cigarettes to attend the games. That's not what success looks like, vorky. If your government is losing money to prop the whole thing up, it's a massive failure. At least outside russia.

If the teams are breaking even, the federation isn't losing money and the rate of attendance keeps rising, it's a moderately succesful affair.

Hockey isn't soccer, the attendance rates should be measured against comparable attendance rates.

We will see whether the CHL is successful or not after the Infront deal runs out. The CHL is still in a brand building stage. Is it going to pay off? Maybe, maybe not.

The 2009 or w/e version of CHL was more lucrative, but if the sponsors were losing money, it was still clearly a failure.
 

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,550
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Success isn't measured by the sheer number of attendees. You can build a brand new ice rink with 50,000 seats for 20 billion euros and fill it with 50,000 people by handing out tickets for free or paying them vodka and cigarettes to attend the games. That's not what success looks like, vorky. If your government is losing money to prop the whole thing up, it's a massive failure. At least outside russia.

If the teams are breaking even, the federation isn't losing money and the rate of attendance keeps rising, it's a moderately succesful affair.

Hockey isn't soccer, the attendance rates should be measured against comparable attendance rates.

We will see whether the CHL is successful or not after the Infront deal runs out. The CHL is still in a brand building stage. Is it going to pay off? Maybe, maybe not.

The 2009 or w/e version of CHL was more lucrative, but if the sponsors were losing money, it was still clearly a failure.
Thank you that you explained us what is a success and what is not. If there is higher attendance at Sparta Prague CHL SF than usuall, it will not be a success by using your own words. One more time, thank you!

 

Czechboy

Češi do toho!
Apr 15, 2018
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Just so happens that no Czech team has ever won it. Surely only because they don't want to, and not because their league is weak.
1734749783235.png


2 things here

1. NO ONE gives a shit about this tournament
2. Czechs are actually quite good at it

FWIW.. if we won all of them it still wouldn't mean much. But let's not pretend we are not consistently in the final 4. Or that the Extraliga is about as strong as it's been in the last 20 years.

Normally I'm on your side and like your posts... but seriously?
 
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Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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Sure 5th place in the rankings is quite good, ahead of the not-bad Austrian league after all, but you don't hear teams that won the competition complain about how it didn't matter to them. Is it a secondary competition for as good as everyone involved? Of course. Much like the domestic cups in soccer. But if your fans prefer another game against Mountfield or even no hockey at all in the schedule then what you've got to do is to get out of the competition altogether and do just that. Or if you want a different kind of competition then tell how that should look like. Participating with modest success just to whine year after year how this didn't matter and how the very strong Extraliga is all we need is quite obnoxious.
 

Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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So what's the end game? Get out of the competition? Change it and if so how? Keep it as it is and keep whining? I'm not hearing any constructive proposals anywhere from Czechia regarding the CHL.
 

Czechboy

Češi do toho!
Apr 15, 2018
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So what's the end game? Get out of the competition? Change it and if so how? Keep it as it is and keep whining? I'm not hearing any constructive proposals anywhere from Czechia regarding the CHL.
We care about fixing the CHL about as much as we care about fixing the WNBA.
 

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,550
1,347
Sure 5th place in the rankings is quite good, ahead of the not-bad Austrian league after all, but you don't hear teams that won the competition complain about how it didn't matter to them. Is it a secondary competition for as good as everyone involved? Of course. Much like the domestic cups in soccer. But if your fans prefer another game against Mountfield or even no hockey at all in the schedule then what you've got to do is to get out of the competition altogether and do just that. Or if you want a different kind of competition then tell how that should look like. Participating with modest success just to whine year after year how this didn't matter and how the very strong Extraliga is all we need is quite obnoxious.
To reply the bold part, I will use the words of the Czech hockey journalist who broke the story/interview with Sparta coach (here): "Even before I heart off-record from clubs participating at CHL statements like CHL is not attractive to fans, CHL does not work. As soon as I started recording the players, coaches, executives switched their mind, presenting one-sided opinion. They talked how interesting & positive the project is for them. Words about lacking of CHL authority & interest from fans have immediately disappeared somewhere." Ask yourself why THIS has happened to this journalist.

I could discuss the CHL history, its backround ... but I think you would not like it. Can I?

First and foremost, the CHL 2014 did not begin as ambition project with resources and power. It started as reaction to KHL. Euros needed to do something, even something not working. Just to stop KHL. The guys behind the CHL were not prepared for the project, they did not have TOP management behind them, they did not have money, they did not have a deep research. Nothing. They just hoped it will work somehow sometimes. As we can see after a decade it has never worked. They even did not realise that the IIHF international schedule will cause them problems! On this forum we have discsussed about it. They have all power within IIHF & doing nothing to change it! I know, not easy, but they do not even try. You can not sit on two chairs at the same time.

OK, I could accept all these, they need to start somehow, they need time. BUT. Their biggest mistake is to prefer ideology over business/sport. They do not try to create some sport league within hockey Europe, they try to promote their ideology. Just do your research on some personalities behind the project. They would like to bring a UEFA CL kind of competition to hockey, but they do not want a big business, big money to be invovled. Because, such money in sports is a bad thing. Here I can use a phrase from one hockey guy saying: "European hockey clubs/leagues are run by former hockey players while NHL clubs & NHL are run by business people."

You will again bring me some pictures with great fans. OK. Still I will say it again. You can not play a CHL game at secondary arena. That is not only about a capacity. It is about the fans. How can you bring the fans to arena if your arena is not good enough? Todays hockey is not only about a game, it is about game-day program inside & outside arena. Older & smaller arenas are not good enough for that. There is a reason why UEFA has some minimal standards on stadiums. I do remember, just a few yrs back, how some team was forced to play its home UEFA CL Q game outside its city, because stadium was not good enough!

I could go on & on with arguments, but I will stop here.

Like it or not, Europe´s future is not bright. The Europeans´ problem is degradation of the leadership is every segment of daily life, including sport executives. Remains to be seen what it will bring to CHL.
 
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