Line Combos: CBJ Roster Discussion/Line Combos/Injury Report

[Xoggz22]

I wonder if the loss of Sillinger actually has GMDW pull the trigger on that top 6 forward. I still believe they would like Boone on the wing and, goodness, if they can get Monahanov, Chinny and Sillinger back with time to get integrated for a playoff push... this team could really push the offense. In my dream world I would hope a healthy roster (no deadline adds considered, but clearly that's possible, even likely)...

Voronkov-Monahan-Marchenko
Jenner-Fantilli-KJ
JVR-Sillinger-Chinakhov
Olivier-Kuraly-Danforth
Extra...ZAR, Pyyhtia

That could be tweaked, of course, but that's a deep 12 forwards. Wishful thinking, but man that looks really good to me. The defense just needs to be adequate to allow the unit of 5 to work.

Edit - I knew I forgot someone... Added Olivier.

 

[DankoCBJ]

Voronkov-Monahan-Marchenko
Jenner-Fantilli-KJ
JVR-Sillinger-Chinakhov
ZAR-Kuraly-Danforth
Extra...Pyyhtia

That could be tweaked, of course, but that's a deep 12 forwards. Wishful thinking, but man that looks really good to me. The defense just needs to be adequate to allow the unit of 5 to work.

Could I interest you with sir Mathieu Olivier?

 

[Xoggz22]

Could I interest you with sir Mathieu Olivier?

Crap.. i knew I was forgetting someone. Yes, he's my preference. I deleted him...I'll go update.

 

[GoJackets1]

I hate to say it, but after getting Boone back, I think the Silly injury could very well work out to be addition by subtraction. Especially when Monahan comes back. Not to mention, 21-38-91 was a revelation, and I’m not sure how well Silly would fit with any of the bottom 6 guys either.

 

[majormajor]

I hate to say it, but after getting Boone back, I think the Silly injury could very well work out to be addition by subtraction. Especially when Monahan comes back. Not to mention, 21-38-91 was a revelation, and I’m not sure how well Silly would fit with any of the bottom 6 guys either.

It's addition by subtraction for the second line. But most of our bottom sixers haven't been doing much. I'd like to see Sillinger used in a bottom six winger role when he comes back.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The “Sillinger hurts the team be being out there” thing is just getting… silly.

 

[majormajor]

The “Sillinger hurts the team be being out there” thing is just getting… silly.

I think it can be taken too far (see my above comment) but at least this time the target of "hurts the team" rhetoric is the player who we get outscored the most with when he's out there. People were doing that with Severson - a player who we've outscored opponents with this year.

Sillinger 25 GF 40 GA
Severson 49 GF 45 GA

If anyone can tell me how to make that wording less awkward, let me know.

 

[CBJ goalie]

I always like the whipping boys a little more, just to make up for the irrational dislike of them, lol

 

[stevo61]

I always like the whipping boys a little more, just to make up for the irrational dislike of them, lol

Some may dislike him but many of us just don't like him forced into a role above his current level. Can you honestly say you watched last game and didn't see that JVR-Jenner-Johnson looked better than Sillinger-Johnson-any other winger? He just plays a simple game that doesn't match up with skill players as of now, he's a fine bottom 6 player

 

[Forepar]

Some may dislike him but many of us just don't like him forced into a role above his current level. Can you honestly say you watched last game and didn't see that JVR-Jenner-Johnson looked better than Sillinger-Johnson-any other winger? He just plays a simple game that doesn't match up with skill players as of now, he's a fine bottom 6 player

Sillinger will be absolutely fine as a 3C who can play 2C when needed. Its like he needs to be Fantilli or Monahan or veteran Boone NOW to satisfy He’s a young Boone still needing polish. The G% isn’t great (per MM’s post) but just seems he’s not been put in positions to succeed given his current skill and play style. There are times when he’s on a line with KJ and KJ looks like a fish out of water. And that’s not always on Sillinger, sometimes KJ’s dangling in those situations is the wrong play. But KJ gets a pass because Sillinger not “as talented” as KJ. Might be true, but that doesn’t mean anything, need both for the team to succced. Sillinger will find his level and lead the right line of linemates for most of his career, just still finding his way. He’s freaking 20 years old playing C in the NHL. They asked him to improve skating - and he has. More steps to go; and more steps coming.

 

[stevo61]

Sillinger will be absolutely fine as a 3C who can play 2C when needed. Its like he needs to be Fantilli or Monahan or veteran Boone NOW to satisfy He’s a young Boone still needing polish. The G% isn’t great (per MM’s post) but just seems he’s not been put in positions to succeed given his current skill and play style. There are times when he’s on a line with KJ and KJ looks like a fish out of water. And that’s not always on Sillinger, sometimes KJ’s dangling in those situations is the wrong play. But KJ gets a pass because Sillinger not “as talented” as KJ. Might be true, but that doesn’t mean anything, need both for the team to succced. Sillinger will find his level and lead the right line of linemates for most of his career, just still finding his way. He’s freaking 20 years old playing C in the NHL. They asked him to improve skating - and he has. More steps to go; and more steps coming.

Sillinger is simple but somehow not predictable. JVR isn't what he once was but you know exactly what he's doing and where he'll be. Jenner is still getting his legs under him but he's still pretty similar in that regard. Sillinger needed development time in lesser leagues that he didn't get so he's been trial by fire and to his credit he has been improving but he's just not a skilled line center as of today. Honestly he may never be and that's fine, a quality 3rd line guy can impact the game in many ways

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Sillinger 25 GF 40 GA
Severson 49 GF 45 GA

since christmas (and excluding the game where he got hurt early) sillinger is averaging over 2 minutes of ice time per game more than severson.

when pascal vincent was benching young players last year, it was easy to question his judgment because they weren't even a remotely competitive team. evason has these guys overachieving, and clearly he trusts sillinger and does not trust severson. that should speak volumes.

Sillinger will be absolutely fine as a 3C who can play 2C when needed. Its like he needs to be Fantilli or Monahan or veteran Boone NOW to satisfy He’s a young Boone still needing polish. The G% isn’t great (per MM’s post) but just seems he’s not been put in positions to succeed given his current skill and play style.

he's definitely been put in a good position to succeed (averaging close to 18 minutes of TOI per game), he's just not getting power play time.

despite what this board says, his performance this season has been excellent for a 21-year-old. before anyone jumps down my throat for that, here's how he compares to a lot of "better" prospects in the NHL this season who are around the same age:

• cole sillinger: 9-20–29 in 54gp
• leo carlsson: 11-12–23 in 52gp
• juraj slafkovsky: 10-23–33 in 56gp
• matty beniers: 13-19–32 in 60gp
• logan stankoven: 7-19–26 in 55gp
• marco kasper:10-13–23 in 54gp
• jiri kulich: 11-6–17 in 43gp
• cutter gauthier: 12-13–25 in 58gp
• mason mctavish: 14-17–31 in 52gp
• jackson blake:11-9–20 in 59gp

if you take away power play points he has better production this season than every single player on that list, which includes five recent top-5 picks. and remember, cole has spent a ton of time this season playing with pyyhtia, olivier and aston-reese.

he's taken a big leap this season (faster, stronger, more confident, skill has started to flash more frequently) and earned a ton of trust from a coach who has the team winning games. and there's still a lot of runway when it comes to his development.

 

[majormajor]

I didn't come here to go on about Cole Sillinger, but if folks are going to argue that he's having a great season right now, then I'm going to have to respond to that.

You know how Kirill Marchenko has the best 5v5 on ice results in the league? Out of the 186 league forwards who have played 700+ 5v5 minutes, he's #1 in GF% relative to teammates, meaning we have a bigger gap between the results with him and without him than any other player in the league. You'll never guess who is 186th (dead last) on that same list! Usually that's a sign that the coach of that player (whatever team he may be on) is giving him too many minutes.

when pascal vincent was benching young players last year, it was easy to question his judgment because they weren't even a remotely competitive team. evason has these guys overachieving

Does it not matter to you at all how much overachieving they do when these players are actually on the ice, and not on the ice?

Evason also put JVR down on the 4th line wing and Jenner at the wing to make way for Sillinger at 2C. And as soon as Sillinger is out of the way, they pop off, almost like not every decision Evason makes is wise. Obviously every coach is going to make some mistakes.

and remember, cole has spent a ton of time this season playing with pyyhtia, olivier and aston-reese.

This would be a slightly useful defense of the player if he played any better with Marchenko, KJ, Fantilli, etc.... Every one of those guys is underwater (getting outchanced and outscored) when they play with Sillinger and has better results without him. Who does he look good next to here?

 

[Cowumbus]

Kuraly is still my whipping boy fwiw

 

[Viqsi]

My only whipping boy is all y'all when y'all keep gainsaying my team.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Does it not matter to you at all how much overachieving they do when these players are actually on the ice, and not on the ice?

Evason also put JVR down on the 4th line wing and Jenner at the wing to make way for Sillinger at 2C. And as soon as Sillinger is out of the way, they pop off, almost like not every decision Evason makes is wise. Obviously every coach is going to make some mistakes.

the 21-38-91 line has looked great for 2.5ish periods. evason has trusted sillinger to play ~18 minutes per game all season and has the team in a playoff position.

the macro (evason's management of the lineup over the course of the season) has yielded good enough results to not get spun up over the micro (specific usage of one player in one game).

if evason is a good enough coach to have a projected last-place team in a playoff position in march (he is) then I'm willing to trust his evaluation of cole sillinger over message board posters.

This would be a slightly useful defense of the player if he played any better with Marchenko, KJ, Fantilli, etc.... Every one of those guys is underwater (getting outchanced and outscored) when they play with Sillinger and has better results without him. Who does he look good next to here?

you missed the entire point of what I was saying, which is that he should be compared to players who are similarly aged (20-22) and that he stacks up very well in that type of comparison.

I'm not disagreeing that he hasn't won his minutes. this team is still building. he's 21 and has produced better than a lot of guys in that age range who were top-5 picks and are seen as franchise cornerstones. my last comment literally said that he should be graded on a curve.

if this team was designed to make a deep run this year, his usage would be a problem. they're playing with house money, so it's not. and again, he still has a ton of runway to develop.

his sophomore slump has skewed the perception of him as a player and an asset. he should be viewed as a long-term 2C or a major trade chip, not as a disappointment.

 

[thebus88]

Kuraly is still my whipping boy fwiw

What Sillinger actually deserves, is Kuraly’s role and ice time. Maybe Sillinger at 24 will be a good player. He a bottom of the lineup NHL player, with severe deficiencies in his game, that won’t just magically (or are a guarantee to) improve over time.

Sillinger should be just getting called up in games now. That he is a young player or been given opportunities and playing time he shouldn’t have been given or deserved, shouldn’t have him be looked at favorably or positively. That he was SUCH a BAD skater and in such bad shape, does not make his improvements that spectacular, IMO.

You also can’t put a number or a statistic on in-game/on-ice intelligence and “hockey IQ”….