Confirmed with Link: CBJ Re-Sign Jones [6 years, 5.4M AAV]

CBJSlash

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Aug 13, 2003
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The NHL hasn't always been this future forward. Been thinking about this a lot lately.

Do any of my fellow old timers around here remember when MacLean signed Nash to his 2nd contract? It was somewhere around $5m per I think. (working from memory here, not researching). That was back when teams had much tighter controls on young players. The big contracts wouldn't come until you were 27-28 (again, I think).
Posters freaked the F out, called MacLean a moron (which he was, but not in this case), accused him of ruining the league and kicking open the door to overpay players who haven't "earned" it.
Anyone else remember that?

I do. IIRC Nash signed this same 5.4 amount.

It pretty much blew up cost controlled RFAs. It was pretty standard procedure that after the entry level deal, everyone signed a 2-3 year bridge deal. This was also when the UFA age was still 31.

MacLean was still somewhat of a moron for that because he didn't have to do it. All it successfully did was cause young players to get paid a ton more (which trickled up to vets). I'd bet this did more to harm small market teams.

At least Nash knew that MacLean loved him.
 

KallioWeHardlyKnewYe

Hey! We won!
May 30, 2003
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I do. IIRC Nash signed this same 5.4 amount.

It pretty much blew up cost controlled RFAs. It was pretty standard procedure that after the entry level deal, everyone signed a 2-3 year bridge deal. This was also when the UFA age was still 31.

MacLean was still somewhat of a moron for that because he didn't have to do it. All it successfully did was cause young players to get paid a ton more (which trickled up to vets). I'd bet this did more to harm small market teams.

At least Nash knew that MacLean loved him.

Man, I completely forgot that UFA age was 31 back then.

I supported the move. Just seemed fair. And sure it resulted in overpaid underachieving players (not to mention fairly paid players), but the money is there for these teams and if they weren't going to spend it on 22, 25 year olds, they'd blow it on a 31 year old.
 

LetsGOJackets!!

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Mar 23, 2004
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Man, I completely forgot that UFA age was 31 back then.

I supported the move. Just seemed fair. And sure it resulted in overpaid underachieving players (not to mention fairly paid players), but the money is there for these teams and if they weren't going to spend it on 22, 25 year olds, they'd blow it on a 31 year old.


He was torched throughout the NHL for that contract, particularly in Toronto. One of the issues then and now with the $ distribution is that hockey remains a fringe sport. That hasn't seemed to change even with expansion. No major TV contract due to lower ratings.. Hell ESPN has developed into the Poker network. I am hoping that one of the networks can be signed / or pay per view can become marketed better to the masses. People find the back stories of the average joe who made it big in Poker interesting.. they should get to know these hockey players. International stories of work & dedication from a very early age.
 

major major

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Feb 18, 2013
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hockey remains a fringe sport. That hasn't seemed to change even with expansion. No major TV contract due to lower ratings.. Hell ESPN has developed into the Poker network. I am hoping that one of the networks can be signed / or pay per view can become marketed better to the masses. People find the back stories of the average joe who made it big in Poker interesting.. they should get to know these hockey players. International stories of work & dedication from a very early age.

I've long given up caring about "growing the game". There's plenty of fans. One of the most annoying thing about US hockey coverage is how pedantic it is. It's entirely aimed at getting that marginal new fan, and it makes for painful viewing for experienced fans to hear the same basics over and over again. Going back to Canadian TV is such a relief.
 

KallioWeHardlyKnewYe

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May 30, 2003
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I've long given up caring about "growing the game". There's plenty of fans.

I agree with this. I think culture as a whole is extremely fragmented these days. That's not a bad thing. Nothing wrong with a niche as long as the niche can sustain itself. I don't need everyone else to love what I love.

But I guess we're getting out of Seth Jones territory here ... :)
 

GoChill

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Apr 19, 2007
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Jones Contract & Trades

This Jones contract makes me think back to the Jones for Johannsen trade. Jones is now locked up for 5.4 per for 6 I wonder what Nashville will end up doing with Joey. Since he makes 6 this year his qualifying offer is 6 which means if Nashville retains his rights the negotiating begins at 6M which depending on the year he has could be pretty pricey.

Thinking of this trade also makes me think of yesterday's Hall for Larsson deal.

Hall's best goals is 27 and best pts 80 - last season 26G & 65 pts
Joey's best goals is 33 and best pts 71 - last season 14G & 60 pts

Larsson last season 3G and 18pts
Jones last season 2G and 20pts - Jones is younger by 2 yrs

From a cursory look at the stats they are pretty comparable trades although I think Hall looks a little better than Joey (but Joey is a center) and Jones looks a little better than Larsson.

It does go to show how expensive it is to trade for a young quality RH Dman. It's not just the Jackets that paid up to get one.
 

Jackets16

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Jan 7, 2005
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This Jones contract makes me think back to the Jones for Johannsen trade. Jones is now locked up for 5.4 per for 6 I wonder what Nashville will end up doing with Joey. Since he makes 6 this year his qualifying offer is 6 which means if Nashville retains his rights the negotiating begins at 6M which depending on the year he has could be pretty pricey.

Thinking of this trade also makes me think of yesterday's Hall for Larsson deal.

Hall's best goals is 27 and best pts 80 - last season 26G & 65 pts
Joey's best goals is 33 and best pts 71 - last season 14G & 60 pts

Larsson last season 3G and 18pts
Jones last season 2G and 20pts - Jones is younger by 2 yrs

From a cursory look at the stats they are pretty comparable trades although I think Hall looks a little better than Joey (but Joey is a center) and Jones looks a little better than Larsson.

It does go to show how expensive it is to trade for a young quality RH Dman. It's not just the Jackets that paid up to get one.

Jones had 3g and 28 assists for 31 points last year. The numbers you listed are what he had with Columbus.
 

Mayor Bee

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Dec 29, 2008
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I do. IIRC Nash signed this same 5.4 amount.

It pretty much blew up cost controlled RFAs. It was pretty standard procedure that after the entry level deal, everyone signed a 2-3 year bridge deal. This was also when the UFA age was still 31.

MacLean was still somewhat of a moron for that because he didn't have to do it. All it successfully did was cause young players to get paid a ton more (which trickled up to vets). I'd bet this did more to harm small market teams.

At least Nash knew that MacLean loved him.

You're forgetting two other big parts:

1) The Nash extension came immediately on the heels of the 2004-05 lockout, which was very much focused on finding ways to control runaway player salaries. In fact, I think it was within a month of the lockout actually ending.

2) Part of the lockout was a one-time 24% salary rollback on all existing contracts. Nash's $5.4 million AAV after the lockout was like signing him to a $7.1 million AAV before the lockout.

It propelled a 21-year-old player who had 96 career points and a -62 rating into the top 20 salaries in the NHL. It put him above several of the best players in the game who were in the primes of their respective careers, and completely blew up the league's salary structure a month after a season-killing lockout ended.

It was a horrendous move in every imaginable way. Between this and backdooring Todd Marchant to the Ducks by waiving a player with a no-trade clause (which directly led to NMCs as an actual thing), MacLean did a ton more damage to smaller-market teams than one would have thought possible.
 

LetsGOJackets!!

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Mar 23, 2004
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Yeah, he's paid like he's currently the 35th highest cap hit in the league. If we paid him less on a bridge deal we'd have complaining that he'd cost more in 2 or 3 years.

You really can't win.

We knew to lock him up long term and gain cap certainty you would overpay the first couple of years. This is how the league works.

We traded Johansen for him, we were going to sign him long term. Said it when the trade happened - we went all in.

The good thing is Seth Jones went all in on the Blue Jackets.. when players potentially can get out, but stay because they see something good happening, that is the team I want to watch develop.:D
 

LetsGOJackets!!

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Mar 23, 2004
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You're forgetting two other big parts:

1) The Nash extension came immediately on the heels of the 2004-05 lockout, which was very much focused on finding ways to control runaway player salaries. In fact, I think it was within a month of the lockout actually ending.

2) Part of the lockout was a one-time 24% salary rollback on all existing contracts. Nash's $5.4 million AAV after the lockout was like signing him to a $7.1 million AAV before the lockout.

It propelled a 21-year-old player who had 96 career points and a -62 rating into the top 20 salaries in the NHL. It put him above several of the best players in the game who were in the primes of their respective careers, and completely blew up the league's salary structure a month after a season-killing lockout ended.

It was a horrendous move in every imaginable way. Between this and backdooring Todd Marchant to the Ducks by waiving a player with a no-trade clause (which directly led to NMCs as an actual thing), MacLean did a ton more damage to smaller-market teams than one would have thought possible.

Thanks Mayor Bee, your memory is spot on. I remember being happy we signed Nash & wondering why the rest of the league was torching MacLean. Hell, in hindsight the bigger issue for Jacket fans was never getting him a #1 Centre.
 

We Want Ten

Johnny Gaudreau
Apr 5, 2013
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You're forgetting two other big parts:

1) The Nash extension came immediately on the heels of the 2004-05 lockout, which was very much focused on finding ways to control runaway player salaries. In fact, I think it was within a month of the lockout actually ending.

2) Part of the lockout was a one-time 24% salary rollback on all existing contracts. Nash's $5.4 million AAV after the lockout was like signing him to a $7.1 million AAV before the lockout.

It propelled a 21-year-old player who had 96 career points and a -62 rating into the top 20 salaries in the NHL. It put him above several of the best players in the game who were in the primes of their respective careers, and completely blew up the league's salary structure a month after a season-killing lockout ended.

It was a horrendous move in every imaginable way. Between this and backdooring Todd Marchant to the Ducks by waiving a player with a no-trade clause (which directly led to NMCs as an actual thing), MacLean did a ton more damage to smaller-market teams than one would have thought possible.
Well done. You have managed to make Dougie Mac even worse in my eyes... I did not know this was possible.

Slow clap.
 

major major

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Feb 18, 2013
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Thinking of this trade also makes me think of yesterday's Hall for Larsson deal.

Hall's best goals is 27 and best pts 80 - last season 26G & 65 pts
Joey's best goals is 33 and best pts 71 - last season 14G & 60 pts

Larsson last season 3G and 18pts
Jones last season 2G and 20pts - Jones is younger by 2 yrs

From a cursory look at the stats they are pretty comparable trades although I think Hall looks a little better than Joey (but Joey is a center) and Jones looks a little better than Larsson.

It does go to show how expensive it is to trade for a young quality RH Dman. It's not just the Jackets that paid up to get one.

It makes Jarmo look pretty damn good that he was able to snag Seth Jones for Johansen.

Taylor Hall doesn't have nearly the question marks that Johansen had/has, so even as a winger, I'd think he is a good bit more valuable, especially with the higher production.

And yes, I'd take Jones over Larsson easily. They're both #2-ish guys now but I see Jones with much higher upside. Not close.
 

theD86

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Jun 23, 2007
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CBJSlash you had me at "MacLean was still somewhat of a moron" his poor drafts and poor scouting department set the Jackets back years
 

blahblah

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Nov 24, 2005
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The good thing is Seth Jones went all in on the Blue Jackets.. when players potentially can get out, but stay because they see something good happening, that is the team I want to watch develop.:D

That's all fine and good, but how many players have we duped in the past?
 

blahblah

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Nov 24, 2005
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It makes Jarmo look pretty damn good that he was able to snag Seth Jones for Johansen.

Actually CBJ didn't get the proper value for Johansen; although it wasn't as grievous as what Edmonton just did.

Unlike Johansen, who actually proved he could be an elite top line center, Jones was buried a bit and hadn't actually proved that he could be a top pairing guy.

But sure, continue to spin this.
 

KallioWeHardlyKnewYe

Hey! We won!
May 30, 2003
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Actually CBJ didn't get the proper value for Johansen; although it wasn't as grievous as what Edmonton just did.

Unlike Johansen, who actually proved he could be an elite top line center, Jones was buried a bit and hadn't actually proved that he could be a top pairing guy.

But sure, continue to spin this.

I'm on the side of Jarmo doing well in the Johansen-Jones swap, even moreso in light of the Hall-Larsson trade.

But we also can't forget that the reason for the trade wasn't to fill a need, as folks like to spin it, it's because the organization was running Johansen out of town. Jarmo happened to do a good job filling that need in the process.

So, thumbs up on the deal.
Thumbs down on what led to the deal.
 

blahblah

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Nov 24, 2005
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But we also can't forget that the reason for the trade wasn't to fill a need, as folks like to spin it, it's because the organization was running Johansen out of town. Jarmo happened to do a good job filling that need in the process.

Don't revisionist history this; JK basically shouted from the rooftops that he was searching for a #1 D and they talked about Jones for a while. It took Johansen to get the deal done, that wasn't JK's first offer.

Yes, they might have wanted to move Johansen but they had been looking for that #1 D for a while. He was looking at multiple teams.

From a pure value perspective, we didn't get full market value for Johansen.
 

Mayor Bee

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Dec 29, 2008
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I'm on the side of Jarmo doing well in the Johansen-Jones swap, even moreso in light of the Hall-Larsson trade.

But we also can't forget that the reason for the trade wasn't to fill a need, as folks like to spin it, it's because the organization was running Johansen out of town. Jarmo happened to do a good job filling that need in the process.

So, thumbs up on the deal.
Thumbs down on what led to the deal.

It was like watching in real time the way that baseball GMs used to do things, where they'd publicly railroad a player they wanted to trade so that it was more palatable for the public when a move was inevitably made. It didn't matter whether the player was productive or not, and they usually didn't care if it negatively affected the trade return; they wanted the public to turn on a player.
 

Crede777

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Dec 16, 2009
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One of the things that excites me about Jones is that you can tell he grew up with professional athletes in his family.

The way he conducts himself during interviews, handles business with his agent, and handles himself on the ice shows a level of maturity that is often lacking in 21 year old players.

This is a player who is going to always say the right things, show up to meetings, respect coaches, follow a solid training regimen, and lead by example. He isn't going to try to break the RFA contract record just for the heck of it. He lets his play speak for itself.

I'm not saying he's going to necessarily sacrifice it all for the team, nor should he. He knows what he's worth and he knows how to get it in a way which doesn't burn bridges or reflect poorly upon the organization. I think that attitude and approach is going to help the team. More importantly, though, it's going to help Jones even more going forward.

And while this may seem like a criticism of Johansen, it's not much of one. Johansen also let his play do a lot of the talking. He obviously didn't miss meetings nor did he have problems conducting himself as a proper teammate. Has a few attitude problems, but nothing that shouldn't be overlooked for a player of his caliber. And I think he'll change as he gets older.

But with Jones, he knows what way the winds are blowing. Jones has the ability if he wanted to be a "me first" guy and he'd get away with it. But he knows Davidson and Jarmo's attitudes towards players who put themselves ahead of the team. And he has the acumen to behave accordingly. That will get him far in the league.

So call it what you want. Maybe he should be a bit of a bigger personality or put himself ahead of the team. But what I see is maturity, composure, and confidence that he is (and is going to be) a franchise player. And that speaks louder than anything.
 
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Mayor Bee

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Dec 29, 2008
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One of the things that excites me about Jones is that you can tell he grew up with professional athletes in his family.

So did Kerby Rychel.

Ultimately, I think it's more a matter of individual personalities than anything. Ryan Murray conducts himself a certain way a similar way as Jones, but didn't grow up with pro athletes in his family. Nick Foligno is similar, but did grow up with pro athletes.
 

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