CBJ Offseason '16 (All FA/trade/roster discussion/blog rumor/proposals/etc here)

[CBJWerenski8]

I'm beginning to think there's two types of posters in the CBJ board.

Those who think we're as bad as our record indicates and those who don't. I firmly believe we aren't as bad as the record indicates.

I agree here.

There's no way this team with all this talent is a bottom feeder let alone a bottom 5 team.

But not here.

I guess I'm in the doomsday group. I don't think we're as bad as our record is, but we're still far from a playoff team. Hell, we're far away from being 3rd best in our division. We're likely last our second to last in the division.

We have SOME talent, but that's mostly from young guys. The older guys (Dubi, Foligno, JJ, etc) are good but they're 2nd/3rd liners on good teams. Not first. We have a long way to go and not much cap to get there. I see us finishing with the 8th overall pick (or around there) in the draft prior to the lottery.

 

[CBJx614]

I agree here.




But not here.

I guess I'm in the doomsday group. I don't think we're as bad as our record is, but we're still far from a playoff team. Hell, we're far away from being 3rd best in our division. We're likely last our second to last in the division.

We have SOME talent, but that's mostly from young guys. The older guys (Dubi, Foligno, JJ, etc) are good but they're 2nd/3rd liners on good teams. Not first. We have a long way to go and not much cap to get there. I see us finishing with the 8th overall pick (or around there) in the draft prior to the lottery.

With a healthy Bob and the youngsters (Murray, Jones, Saad, Jenner, Wennberg, Korpisalo) all poised to take the next step I think we finish just outside a playoff spot somewhere in the 12-15 spot. And with a little luck from a rook(Bjorkstrand, Werenski, PLD, Anderson) we might be able to sneak into the playoffs.


We didn't have any sure fire first liners when we made the playoffs and gave Pittsburgh a mighty headache. We have a much better defense and defintely more offensive talent, whether they live up to it or not is the only question. Injuries happen, whether it helps or hurts us is yet to be seen.

 

[EspenK]

I'm not sure of where this team will finish the upcoming season. I'm pretty sure they won't be one of the top 10 teams. I'm hoping they won't be in the bottom five, although as a draftnik I could live with it.

I think one of the biggest challenges facing them is the opening schedule. 13 of first 16 against playoff teams and Montreal and Boston (2) as the 3 non-playoff teams. Yikes. And throw in a west coast trip to face the California teams for good measure.

If they somehow come out of that with 14 points or so I'll consider it a positive in that the playoffs will still be in reach although it will be tough. If they come out with fewer points the morale will be heading south and it will most likely be a very long season again.

Conversely if they start well and come out of that stretch with slightly more than 16 points then the good mojo should continue and they could surprise a whole lot of folks.

The opening 16 are CRITICAL.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

If they somehow come out of that with 14 points or so I'll consider it a positive in that the playoffs will still be in reach although it will be tough. If they come out with fewer points the morale will be heading south and it will most likely be a very long season again.

First of all the play will reveal the points. The result must be honoured.

Remember, if you are to weld together as a gang, many times you need to struggle to overcome.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

With a healthy Bob and the youngsters (Murray, Jones, Saad, Jenner, Wennberg, Korpisalo) all poised to take the next step I think we finish just outside a playoff spot somewhere in the 12-15 spot. And with a little luck from a rook(Bjorkstrand, Werenski, PLD, Anderson) we might be able to sneak into the playoffs.


We didn't have any sure fire first liners when we made the playoffs and gave Pittsburgh a mighty headache. We have a much better defense and defintely more offensive talent, whether they live up to it or not is the only question. Injuries happen, whether it helps or hurts us is yet to be seen.

We've been waiting for kids to take the next step for years. Klesla, Zherdev, Picard, Brule, Brassard, Jake, Moore, Erixon..etc..Now that's again a doomsday look and I really do think it will be different for some of the kids on the team now (Bjorkstrand, Wennberg, Jenner) and if ALL of the kids develop then we should be in great shape. However, that's just not likely.

I agree we didn't have solid first liners in 2014. But we had an emerging Ryan Johansen, who played all season and in that playoffs like a monster. He was a first liner, and many others were playing well in addition to Bob being unreal in January-February to cement our spot. In reality, was that team good enough? I don't know.

 

[JacketsDavid]

With a healthy Bob and the youngsters (Murray, Jones, Saad, Jenner, Wennberg, Korpisalo) all poised to take the next step I think we finish just outside a playoff spot somewhere in the 12-15 spot. And with a little luck from a rook(Bjorkstrand, Werenski, PLD, Anderson) we might be able to sneak into the playoffs.


We didn't have any sure fire first liners when we made the playoffs and gave Pittsburgh a mighty headache. We have a much better defense and defintely more offensive talent, whether they live up to it or not is the only question. Injuries happen, whether it helps or hurts us is yet to be seen.

So you're big assumption is a healthy Bob is a good Bob and not the Bob was saw last season. That's a big assumption. This team was much better last season when Bob wasn't playing.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

This team was much better last season when Bob wasn't playing.

That might even explain why the gang, the replacement head coach and the goaltender in charge improved as time went by!

For me it is bizarre how individual performance is so easily rooted out the team game concept in the Northern American sports talk.

I think there is a reason why five additional geezers feature in front of goaltender, a situation very easily highlighted through John Tortorella's playbook. Even without them that goaltender works all year long with the support of a goalie coach, a department which raised unseen amount of NHL goaltenders (refer to the 'Tim Thomas' thread in ice hockey history section for additional reading) from the SM-liiga after first Finnish starter, Pasi Nurminen, saw Atlanta gamelights. They gave the goaltenders the support required for standout performances hence the Finnish goaltending phenomenom.

 

[stevo61]

We've been waiting for kids to take the next step for years. Klesla, Zherdev, Picard, Brule, Brassard, Jake, Moore, Erixon..etc..Now that's again a doomsday look and I really do think it will be different for some of the kids on the team now (Bjorkstrand, Wennberg, Jenner) and if ALL of the kids develop then we should be in great shape. However, that's just not likely.

I agree we didn't have solid first liners in 2014. But we had an emerging Ryan Johansen, who played all season and in that playoffs like a monster. He was a first liner, and many others were playing well in addition to Bob being unreal in January-February to cement our spot. In reality, was that team good enough? I don't know.

Well atleast now most of the young guys are getting some extra development time instead of being thrown in at 18 and being asked to play way over their heads.

About the 2014 team they had unreal Bob but also the team had a gritiness and never quit attitude that theyve seemed to lose since that time. Everyone helped each other out, its not an easy way to play but everyone knew the team wasnt going to win on skill. A mindset change paired with an evolving blueline should put the team back to the 2014 ways but with more skill sprinkled throughout

2014 kind of screwed things up because they definintely beat expectations causing management to try and fast track a team that wasnt ready. Since then they went back to the approach they should have followed all along and atleast now we can see a direction and see some organizational depth

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Every August/September this team is a playoff team. It only takes a few weeks to shatter that illusion

 

[Jackets16]

I agree here.




But not here.

I guess I'm in the doomsday group. I don't think we're as bad as our record is, but we're still far from a playoff team. Hell, we're far away from being 3rd best in our division. We're likely last our second to last in the division.

We have SOME talent, but that's mostly from young guys. The older guys (Dubi, Foligno, JJ, etc) are good but they're 2nd/3rd liners on good teams. Not first. We have a long way to go and not much cap to get there. I see us finishing with the 8th overall pick (or around there) in the draft prior to the lottery.

Let's just say I don't agree with you. Who knows how the season will turn out, but we are A LOT more talented than that.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Let's just say I don't agree with you. Who knows how the season will turn out, but we are A LOT more talented than that.

I would guess most folks outside of the 614/740 would disagree.
As fans we always greatly over value our own players and undervalue opponents.

The CBJ has potential (young players) but we are not good. A guy like Saad was in a supporting role in Chicago and is our best offensive forward. A guy like Dubi is our top line C. Jones was 3rd pair in Nashville and is now our #1 dman.

it's not as bas as the old days where we would have a couple decent forwards (Sanderson and Whitney) and 12 grinders and rarely had a dman that could help offensively. But compared to most NHL teams we're still outmanned on a current talent level.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I'm not sure of where this team will finish the upcoming season. I'm pretty sure they won't be one of the top 10 teams. I'm hoping they won't be in the bottom five, although as a draftnik I could live with it.

I think one of the biggest challenges facing them is the opening schedule. 13 of first 16 against playoff teams and Montreal and Boston (2) as the 3 non-playoff teams. Yikes. And throw in a west coast trip to face the California teams for good measure.

If they somehow come out of that with 14 points or so I'll consider it a positive in that the playoffs will still be in reach although it will be tough. If they come out with fewer points the morale will be heading south and it will most likely be a very long season again.

Conversely if they start well and come out of that stretch with slightly more than 16 points then the good mojo should continue and they could surprise a whole lot of folks.

The opening 16 are CRITICAL.

I hadn't checked out the schedule. The first 16 games (20% of the season) can only be characterized as brutal.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/teams/columbus-blue-jackets

The coaching staff had best have Bob on a very short leash this season. If he starts slow and they think that he's going to play his way into form, then the CBJ risk becoming irrelevant by Thanksgiving. Again.

I agree that a 14 points in the first 16 would be quite an accomplishment. I don't expect it to happen.

 

[stevo61]

I would guess most folks outside of the 614/740 would disagree.
As fans we always greatly over value our own players and undervalue opponents.

The CBJ has potential (young players) but we are not good. A guy like Saad was in a supporting role in Chicago and is our best offensive forward. A guy like Dubi is our top line C. Jones was 3rd pair in Nashville and is now our #1 dman.

it's not as bas as the old days where we would have a couple decent forwards (Sanderson and Whitney) and 12 grinders and rarely had a dman that could help offensively. But compared to most NHL teams we're still outmanned on a current talent level.

Those are such horrible arguements. Saad has his best offensive season while Toews had his worst after the supporting role player left and Jones was a 21year old playing behind Weber and Ellis, just because he plays down the lineup doesnt mean he couldnt handle more.
Its like saying Malkin is a 2nd line center

 

[NotWendell]

Let's just say I don't agree with you. Who knows how the season will turn out, but we are A LOT more talented than that.

This team is good for 82 points. Great goaltending can get us to 90.

 

[NORiculous]

Sorry wrong board! My bad. Delete! Thx

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Let's just say I don't agree with you. Who knows how the season will turn out, but we are A LOT more talented than that.

I hope you're right , not me.

 

[CBJx614]

Curious to see who all is there. I saw Calvert, Boone and Sherwood for sure. I think I saw Boll too?!

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

For those on two-way contracts, there's always Cleveland.

For those on one-way contracts, there's always waivers, then Cleveland.

And if the weaklings happen to go by the names Savard or Murray or Jones or Wennberg or Foligno or Bobrovsky?

 

[CBJfan4evr]

I'm in the positive camp. The weakness at center is my big concern. Listened to the preview and stats packs on the sirius XM preview. As much as the Canadian analysts wanted to hate on the Jackets they really found the team to be very average in most categories. Our indexed PP/PK was near 100 and put in the middle of the league, our goals for again put us in the middle of the league, We sucked on GA, that can only get better with Jones playing a full season and the addition of Werenski. We were also average in 5/5 goals for.

We will be better than last year, There will be no coaching controversy, there will not be a question of Ryan Johansen dogging it and we have backup goalies in the wings if Bob stumbles.

My belief is with the distractions aside we will reach the playoffs this year. We've got potentially 6 20 goal scorers (Saad, Jenner, Atkinson, Bjorkstrand, Hartnell, Dubinsky), putting the puck in the net will not be a problem; Assuming Werenski makes the team we've got potentially the best defense/mobile defense we've ever had. The defensive additons will make our PP better as well. Key for me is for our goalie to get a GAA average below 2.5. If that happens we'll be good

 

[Samkow]

As fans we always greatly over value our own players and undervalue opponents.

This isn't REMOTELY true.

____________________________________________________

I'm firmly in the we'll be awful camp.
-We just don't have the center or (barring Murray taking a huge leap forward) depth to compete for a playoff spot,
-Bob's good for being injured for at least a month every season this point and I think Korpisalo's play last season was a bit of overachiement.
-The coach is a dinosaur and I think our 5v5 goals average was actually unusually high for a Tortorella coached team. Hopefully, this drop will hopefully be evened out somewhat by a somewhat more disciplined club (this team took so many damn penalties last season).

 

[major major]

We've been waiting for kids to take the next step for years. Klesla, Zherdev, Picard, Brule, Brassard, Jake, Moore, Erixon..etc..Now that's again a doomsday look and I really do think it will be different for some of the kids on the team now (Bjorkstrand, Wennberg, Jenner) and if ALL of the kids develop then we should be in great shape. However, that's just not likely.

I've been a fan of a lot of bad clubs, long before the Jackets existed. For whatever reason, my teams are usually rebuilding, and I've seen the drill. Not all rebuilds work. Some do, some don't, and there are reasons why. It's not just a matter of "get some kids to get excited about and roll the dice". Here's the main things that separate the rebuilds that work from the ones that don't:


1. More than a few. It takes more than just a few good young players to make a successful rebuild. You need a lot of them, or a couple great ones. That's why I'm not as confident in the Leafs rebuild. They have 3 young F's and 1 good young D on the roster. That's it, and in my experience it's not enough. They have no one else on the roster or system who is A) under 24 (of an age where they can be expected to improve) and B) can be a difference maker (has serious first line / top pair upside).

A bit ago, I went through Jackets history and looked at the failed rebuilds, those times when we thought the youth would pull through and it just wasn't enough. I found that we never had more than a few U24 difference makers at any given time. 2009 was maybe the high-water mark for optimism and there were a grand total of four (Voracek, Brassard, Filatov, Mason). Compare that to today (Saad, Wennberg, Jenner, Jones, Murray, Bjorkstrand, Werenski, Dubois). It might not work but you can't say "same old same old".

2. Defense. I would have said "positional balance" instead of defense, but you can have a crap offense and still vastly improve if the D develops (see Nashville for many years), and you can't say the same about a crap defense with great F's (Edmonton, for many years). Everything hinges on how Jones, Murray, and Werenski develop. Things are far from certain, but I can say this is the first time the Jackets have ever tried a rebuild with the correct approach.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

This team is good for 82 points. Great goaltending can get us to 90.

Shave eight points off each end of the scale and that's how I think this season will go. I think they'll score their share of goals but will give up more than their share.

 

[Dr. Fire]

This isn't REMOTELY true.

____________________________________________________

I'm firmly in the we'll be awful camp.
-We just don't have the center or (barring Murray taking a huge leap forward) depth to compete for a playoff spot,
-Bob's good for being injured for at least a month every season this point and I think Korpisalo's play last season was a bit of overachiement.
-The coach is a dinosaur and I think our 5v5 goals average was actually unusually high for a Tortorella coached team. Hopefully, this drop will hopefully be evened out somewhat by a somewhat more disciplined club (this team took so many damn penalties last season).

I don't think we will be awful, but I don't think we make the play-offs either. So that puts me somewhere in the middle. I agree with CBJ4evr that our GA will not be as bad, but agree with you that our defensive youth will still cause some issues. I also agree with you that our lack of a #1 center will hurt us. The only possibility that I see that it won't is if, somehow, Wennberg takes a huge step forward. The rest of our centers are pretty much what you see is what you get.

I also don't really see Torts as a dinosaur. I think he is very good at designing a system to fit the players that he has been given. Then he demands accountability in that system. Plus, I really believe that he will do a much better job having this team ready on opening night. The schedule might be tough to start, but I think we can sneak up on a lot of teams.

I look for around an 86-90 point team, no play-offs, but a team that is much more fun to watch.

 

[major major]

The CBJ has potential (young players) but we are not good. A guy like Saad was in a supporting role in Chicago and is our best offensive forward. A guy like Dubi is our top line C. Jones was 3rd pair in Nashville and is now our #1 dman.

This gave me a good chuckle.

This is what rebuilding teams are supposed to do! Find young players who can improve and find players who are underutilized on their current teams. Oh, and rip them off, like Jarmo did to get Saad.

Would you rather go get a guy who is a first liner on his team who will be a third liner on ours? Chicago is getting to the point that they'd gladly unload Hossa and his contract, and he'll probably make a fine checking winger for us well into his 40's.

 

[Old Guy]

...... We've got potentially 6 20 goal scorers (Saad, Jenner, Atkinson, Bjorkstrand, Hartnell, Dubinsky),

Ummmm. Expecting both Bjorkstrand and Hartnell to get there is asking a bit. One or the other - okay. But I think Wennberg or Gagner could score 20. So I don't disagree with your premise - just the details.

Key for me is for our goalie to get a GAA average below 2.5. If that happens we'll be good

For me.......this is the one overarching question that will determine everything about this team.