CBJ Board Summer '16 Prospect Rankings: #10

[CBJWerenski8]

Interesting that we voted Abramov (3rd rd) in and Peeke (2nd rd) can't even get added. Obviously Jarmo needs our help.

Peeke smells an awful lot like Ryan Collins, who shouldn't even be considered for this poll, and I am sure that's why people are steering clear.

 

[Fro]

Peeke smells an awful lot like Ryan Collins, who shouldn't even be considered for this poll, and I am sure that's why people are steering clear.

i think i'm leaning that way as well...i got burnt thinking Collins was going to be something...and it appears he won't...

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Let's see: both are defenders. American. Drafted in the second round. Both will be playing in the NCAA. Collins is 6'5" while Peeke stands at 6'3". Scoring rates differ greatly... Anyways, both are indeed American-born defenders drafted in the second round.

.i got burnt thinking Collins was going to be something...and it appears he won't...

We will see in the year 2022.

 

[major major]

I think it's reasonable to distrust Jarmo's taste in second round D.

But it's a very crude way of judging Peeke. At least watch some video, read some reports, or look at their stats. They both played USHL so it's not too hard of a comparison - and they seem to be very different types of players statistically. And Peeke is the better skater and shooter if you watch some video.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Fooking hell! You might for once be onto something.

Let's see: both are defenders. American. Drafted in the second round. Both will be playing in the NCAA. Collins is 6'5" while Peeke stands at 6'3". Scoring rates differ greatly... Anyways, both are indeed American-born defenders drafted in the second round.



We will see in the year 2022.

They have the same strengths and weaknesses. You wouldn't know, you don't know American hockey. The american hockey guru of all knowledge, The Second One, has been a harsh critic of the Blue Jackets' second round selections.

 

[ijuka]

It's Nutivaara and not Nutivarra, by the way.

Speaking of Nutivaara, he's been a very crucial player for Kärpät as a puck-moving defenseman. They were completely lost when they tried to get the puck out of their zone for any sort of offensive startup game when he was injured. I'm surprised he's so low.

 

[major major]

They have the same strengths and weaknesses.

I'm not so sure about that. Collins had 2 pts in the USHL in his draft year, Peeke had 30.

 

[major major]

It's Nutivaara and not Nutivarra, by the way.

Speaking of Nutivaara, he's been a very crucial player for Kärpät as a puck-moving defenseman. They were completely lost when they tried to get the puck out of their zone for any sort of offensive startup game when he was injured. I'm surprised he's so low.

Thanks.

Do you think he'll be better than Kukan in Lake Erie this year? Heatherington and Siebenaler are also in the mix - but it's likely Kukan that Nutivaara has to pass in order to get top minutes in Lake Erie and eventually win an NHL job. They play the same role.

And how does Nutivaara handle heavy checking? We've had some puckmovers in recent years who were limited by that - Erixon, maybe Kukan. Nutivaara is a lot smaller than those two. Some small D can do it, I'm not saying he can't. Just asking.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I'm not so sure about that. Collins had 2 pts in the USHL in his draft year, Peeke had 30.

They're both big, mobile, defense first defenseman with limited a offensive game. Peeke might have a bigger upside, and more offense, but neithers strength will ever be offense. I don't feel as strongly against Peeke as I did Collins, but I'm not a big fan. Both were off the board picks for the slot. Hopefully Peeke has a better college career because I'm not sure Collins even gets a contract.

 

[major major]

They're both big, mobile, defense first defenseman with limited a offensive game. Peeke might have a bigger upside, and more offense, but neithers strength will ever be offense. I don't feel as strongly against Peeke as I did Collins, but I'm not a big fan. Both were off the board picks for the slot. Hopefully Peeke has a better college career because I'm not sure Collins even gets a contract.

I doubt Collins is retained.

Peeke was off the board but he probably would have been a third rounder at the latest if Jarmo didn't take him, and we're near that part of voting where those guys get in.

 

[major major]

Honest question - if a guy like Zaar had to be traded do you think he would fetch better than a 3rd rounder?

I was just thinking through how to compare his value to Peeke and I realized Zaar is a trade candidate. He looks like he might become an NHL scorer but probably not on a deep team, and he'll lose his waiver exemption before too long (2017?).

 

[Howe Elbows 9]

Add Heatherington.

 

[Old Guy]

Add Sedlak

 

[Fro]

with nearly the lone exception being Boone, there's a reason that some of us refer to our 2nd round picks as the draft pick graveyard...we've had basically 1 pan out ever...

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

with nearly the lone exception being Boone, there's a reason that some of us refer to our 2nd round picks as the draft pick graveyard...we've had basically 1 pan out ever...

Is there a huge difference between player drafted 27th and 37th?

 

[Viqsi]

It's Nutivaara and not Nutivarra, by the way.

Speaking of Nutivaara, he's been a very crucial player for Kärpät as a puck-moving defenseman. They were completely lost when they tried to get the puck out of their zone for any sort of offensive startup game when he was injured. I'm surprised he's so low.

He gets held back in our esteem for three reasons:
1) He's 22, so there's concern that he might not have much more room to develop,
2) He has yet to play in North America, and so there's concerns about his ability to adapt his game to smaller ice - folks will be watching his debut here very closely as a result, and
3) We have a poster here who insists he's the best prospect we have, and his arguments in favor vary from messianic devotion to nationalistic racism to just plain old fashioned insulting of people's intelligence, but without any actual details. Folks don't react well to that.

I have some high hopes for him, but we've got lots of other guys without as many question marks, so I don't have him rated as high. If he does turn out great, all the better for us.

 

[hardkorejackets]

I voted Kolesar for a couple of factors..
1. Improved offensive play last season, could have a bit more upside.
2. Bittner's hip surgery last year which wiped out much of the year and he wasn't scoring as much as he did his draft year Bjorkstrand on his line (surprise, surprise). Decided I'll put Kolesar ahead for now and assess Bittner more after his AHL season.

Switched my mind here as well in who to add..
Add Gavrikov.

 

[Jackets16]

Honest question - if a guy like Zaar had to be traded do you think he would fetch better than a 3rd rounder?

I was just thinking through how to compare his value to Peeke and I realized Zaar is a trade candidate. He looks like he might become an NHL scorer but probably not on a deep team, and he'll lose his waiver exemption before too long (2017?).

I doubt it. I certainly don't value him that highly.

 

[Jackets16]

They're both big, mobile, defense first defenseman with limited a offensive game. Peeke might have a bigger upside, and more offense, but neithers strength will ever be offense. I don't feel as strongly against Peeke as I did Collins, but I'm not a big fan. Both were off the board picks for the slot. Hopefully Peeke has a better college career because I'm not sure Collins even gets a contract.

No offense, but there is no comparing a defenseman who scored 2 points and a defenseman who scored 30 points in their draft years. None.

I'm also not even close to giving up on a 6'5, mobile defensman who is only 20 years old.

 

[Jackets16]

I voted Kolesar for a couple of factors..
1. Improved offensive play last season, could have a bit more upside.
2. he wasn't scoring as much as he did his draft year Bjorkstrand on his line (surprise, surprise). Decided I'll put Kolesar ahead for now and assess Bittner more after his AHL season.

Kolesar:

12-13 = 1 GP, 0 G, 0 A, 0 PTS, 0.00 PPG
13-14 = 60 GP, 2 G, 6 A, 8 PTS, 0.13 PPG
14-15 = 64 GP, 19 G, 19 A, 38 PTS, 0.59 PPG
15-16 = 64 GP, 30 G, 31 A, 61 PTS, 0.95 PPG


Bittner:

12-13 = 45 GP, 12 G, 11 A, 23 PTS, 0.51 PPG
13-14 = 63 GP, 22 G, 27 A, 49 PTS, 0.78 PPG
14-15 = 66 GP, 34 G, 37 A, 71 PTS, 1.08 PPG
15-16 = 25 GP, 10 G, 11 A, 21 PTS, 0.84 PPG

Bittner's PPG were obviously down, but who knows where he would have ended if he played a full season. There is too much that changes during a season to say he would have ended at 0.84 PPG. I still think he has more potential as a goal scorer than Kolesar, but it is a lot closer than it was a couple of years ago.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Lotsa interesting discussion in here as we muddle through a strong second tier of prospects. Someone early on said anywhere from 5-17 (or something) and I think that's what we're seeing. And of course you all know how much I love the democratic process...

Re: Collins/Peeke/etc -- I will admit to not being the most thorough in vetting the prospects, so I look at this situation thusly: it's the wide-net theory. Jarmo doesn't have to hit on all of Carlsson/Collins/Gavrokov/Heatherington/Peeke/(others?), just a couple. So he's keeping the farm well-stocked with young, strong, mobile, defense-first-but-good-first-pass (acknowledging these players possess these traits to varying degrees) players.

I'm voting Kolesar ahead of Bittner this season despite being one of Bittner's biggest supporters in last year's voting. It's maybe for me a little bit of a shift in which is more likely to reach his full potential? Maybe? I like both -- a lot.

 

[Jackets16]

Re: Collins/Peeke/etc -- I will admit to not being the most thorough in vetting the prospects, so I look at this situation thusly: it's the wide-net theory. Jarmo doesn't have to hit on all of Carlsson/Collins/Gavrokov/Heatherington/Peeke/(others?), just a couple. So he's keeping the farm well-stocked with young, strong, mobile, defense-first-but-good-first-pass (acknowledging these players possess these traits to varying degrees) players.

That is the key. You only need 6-10 defensemen per year (hopefully). So, you don't need every defensive prospect to work out as long as you have enough of them. Also, you need to have an identity of how your organization wants their forwards, defensemen, and goaltenders to play. I think it is becoming pretty clear we have that.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

That is the key. You only need 6-10 defensemen per year (hopefully). So, you don't need every defensive prospect to work out as long as you have enough of them. Also, you need to have an identity of how your organization wants their forwards, defensemen, and goaltenders to play. I think it is becoming pretty clear we have that.

Yes, and not every prospect at a position needs to have the same skill-set, but it should be clear now that this particular type of defenseman is something the organization wants in its makeup.

 

[Jackets16]

Yes, and not every prospect at a position needs to have the same skill-set, but it should be clear now that this particular type of defenseman is something the organization wants in its makeup.

No doubt, but most should, IMO. You go for guys who may not fit, but are elite, in the first round or late in the draft.

 

[hardkorejackets]

Bittner's PPG were obviously down, but who knows where he would have ended if he played a full season. There is too much that changes during a season to say he would have ended at 0.84 PPG. I still think he has more potential as a goal scorer than Kolesar, but it is a lot closer than it was a couple of years ago.

I certainly hear you on that. Last year, it wasn't close for me. Today, I'm in the wait and see camp. Give Kolesar the slight nod due to Bittner's injury last season.