GDT: #CauseWinning: Canes @ Rongos Game 2 ("7pm" on ESPN)

[Nikishin Go Boom]

It is interesting, since I believe this is a rare miss during the Tulsky era. IIRC, every indication we had was that Trocheck was going to ask for big money in FA, and we would never be able to afford it with other contracts down the line, so we let him go. But then he signs a very reasonable 5 something deal with the Rangers. It’s possible he took a discount to play for them or asked for a king’s ransom for us, but I never got that indication.

According to Decock, whatever that is worth, trocheck let it be known he wasn’t coming back

 

[Svechhammer]

It is interesting, since I believe this is a rare miss during the Tulsky era. IIRC, every indication we had was that Trocheck was going to ask for big money in FA, and we would never be able to afford it with other contracts down the line, so we let him go. But then he signs a very reasonable 5 something deal with the Rangers. It’s possible he took a discount to play for them or asked for a king’s ransom for us, but I never got that indication.

I forget, did we do the offer sheet before or after Tro signed with NY?

 

[wgknestrick]

If Pesce is back, replace TDA and play Slavin-Pesce unprotected minutes, which should be a godsend for our overall defensive play.

I still just don't understand why we are handcuffing Skjei to the extent that we are. I get it that Orlov-Chatfield has been a solid line for us this year, but they are not a quality 2nd pairing and they have been on the ice for more high danger chances against than you'd like to admit. By doing what we are doing, we have one top line, a marginal 2nd pair, and a 3rd pair you don't trust to be on the ice in defensive situations. Not great, especially against a NY team with some elite playmakers up front where you really need to be playing your best guys all game, and we are handcuffing one of our best with one of the worst in the league.

IMO, TDA has had better on ice results than Chatty this series. He should have a super short leash with Chatty ready to take the next game the minute TDA does "TDA like" things. Of run 7 defenders since Rod doesn't play the 4th line anyways.

I just don't think Pesce is ready to be put into a do or die situation not being 100%.

Right now this team has a lot of problems and it's mainly just not being good enough.
- IE Burns on the ice for 3GA and 0 GF last night.
- Did Jarvis even play in this series?
- KK, I've been told is a player for the Carolina Hurricanes. I've yet to see him play.
- Special teams is apparently a strength of CAR when looking at the regular season results. So is goaltending.

 

[Svechhammer]

According to Decock, whatever that is worth, trocheck let it be known he wasn’t coming back

I hadn't heard that. Very interesting. And I have to assume there was an issue with the coaches or front office, because he's still regularly seen with our players at weddings and on vacation during the season and summer.

 

[wgknestrick]

According to Decock, whatever that is worth, trocheck let it be known he wasn’t coming back

That's a shame since he's such a great PO player.

 

[chaz4hockey]

That's a shame since he's such a great PO player.

He wasn’t for us though.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Maybe go cheer for someone else if you don't like the frustration

This implies that you like the frustration.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

IMO, TDA has had better on ice results than Chatty this series. He should have a super short leash with Chatty ready to take the next game the minute TDA does "TDA like" things. Of run 7 defenders since Rod doesn't play the 4th line anyways.

I just don't think Pesce is ready to be put into a do or die situation not being 100%.

Right now this team has a lot of problems and it's mainly just not being good enough.
- IE Burns on the ice for 3GA and 0 GF last night.
- Did Jarvis even play in this series?
- KK, I've been told is a player for the Carolina Hurricanes. I've yet to see him play.
- Special teams is apparently a strength of CAR when looking at the regular season results. So is goaltending.

Jarvis is doing what he can on the line with Staal and Marty, but that line is getting their **** pushed in on most nights.

And KK is making an impact physically when he's on the ice, but he's on the 4th line, and Rod refused to play it last night.

Which is odd, because he stapled one of our more physical forwards (KK) and one of our best net front guys (Noesen) to the bench in a game that really needed both.

 

[wgknestrick]

I characterize Freddie’s play as good to very good whereby Rangers’s has been very good to great. Beyond Special teams, that’s has been the difference. Freddie hasn’t “won” a game for us since early Islanders series.

Optimistic view cliche’: this series doesn’t start until you lose a home game. Canes need to hold serve and then just win 2 of remaining 3. Rags key players are older so we have a good chance in a long series

Hard to be in the "good" side of things with a sub 90% SV% and giving up 4/game. He had some great saves in OT, but seems to always want 1 back/game. Canes don't have 1 to give.

 

[Chrispy]

I forget, did we do the offer sheet before or after Tro signed with NY?

Offer sheet (and 8 year extension in March) was before Trocheck walked. They had a season with Kotkaniemi and Trocheck together (21-22.)

Trocheck also didn't have nearly as good a season in 21-22 as 20-21, a 51 point season in 81 games.

 

[Lempo]

@Lempo you up to do the next GDT?

Don't wanna.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I hadn't heard that. Very interesting. And I have to assume there was an issue with the coaches or front office, because he's still regularly seen with our players at weddings and on vacation during the season and summer.

I think he didn’t like playing 3rd fiddle 5v5 or taking crap for taking his usual boneheaded penalties. Which magically disappeared when he went to NY.

 

[Svechhammer]

This implies that you like the frustration.

Its not that I like it, but I can't fault anyone for being frustrated with the current situation.

 

[wgknestrick]

Its not that I like it, but I can't fault anyone for being frustrated with the current situation.

The super frustrating thing is Rod trotting out the same shit lines/"solution" that didn't work last game. It started in the NYI series which just had no chance against CAR so it wasn't really addressed there.

This team was absolutely demolishing teams at the end of the season, then Svech was put back up to L1 for "reasons" in the playoffs. Everything was working great prior to that. 5v4, 5v5, PK. Svech was forced back into the top lines (displacing Jarvis) who was scoring most of the goals in those situations. Svech's individual talent is just that. Its not a team talent. He's great on Staal's line and PP2, just not the top line with the smaller, intelligent players we have.

 

[3CanesInTheBox]

Anyone who still thinks we can win wanna do the GDT? We need some good mojo.

Also, game-wise, if this leads to a switch to Kooch and moving Jarvis off the Staal line, it will have been well worth it in the long run.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Implying the coaches and players know fans will forgive and forget so aren’t doing whatever they can to win is nonsense.

What you haven't considered is that Brent Burns isn't trying his hardest to win a Cup for himself. He's doing it for me specifically, and if I don't show that I will hate him if he fails, he will probably just stop trying.

 

[3CanesInTheBox]

The super frustrating thing is Rod trotting out the same shit lines/"solution" that didn't work last game. It started in the NYI series which just had no chance against CAR so it wasn't really addressed there.

This team was absolutely demolishing teams at the end of the season, then Svech was put back up to L1 for "reasons" in the playoffs. Everything was working great prior to that. 5v4, 5v5, PK. Svech was forced back into the top lines (displacing Jarvis) who was scoring most of the goals in those situations. Svech's individual talent is just that. Its not a team talent. He's great on Staal's line and PP2, just not the top line with the smaller, intelligent players we have.

The GAS line was amazing. The box of having to put either Svech or Jarvis on the Stone Hands line is the problem. Neither of them should be subjected to his line. Team one of them with like Necas. Put Martinook back with Staal etc.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Anyone who still thinks we can win wanna do the GDT? We need some good mojo.

Also, game-wise, if this leads to a switch to Kooch and moving Jarvis off the Staal line, it will have been well worth it in the long run.

Im for it. Maybe i can recapture my early season 22-23 winning streak

 

[Svechhammer]

The GAS line was amazing. The box of having to put either Svech or Jarvis on the Stone Hands line is the problem. Neither of them should be subjected to his line. Team one of them with like Necas. Put Martinook back with Staal etc.

I'll give you the GA part of that line, but Svech is very hot and cold on the line. For every good play he makes he's taking 1 or 2 really stupid penalties or throwing the puck aimlessly to someone's skates or off target.

And the thing that gets me is that our bread is buttered not by having a strong defensive scheme, but by having an overwhelming offensive attack that cycles the puck endlessly until we break you down to score. That is what makes the GAJ line so deadly, because all 3 players have the same mindset and they're all on equal footing with offensive talent. The puck doesn't die on any one player's stick, and we saw that play out time and time again in the regular season. That line was scalding hot coming into the playoffs, but then we go away from it because we have this incessant need to load up defensively, often at the expense of the offensive cycle. And sure, the Staal line can cycle the puck, but they aren't going to finish anything. Even if you put Jarvis there, its easy to stop because you know you just have to cover his shooting lane. The Isles were poor enough they broke down a couple times and allowed him to get shots off, but that isn't going to happen against a team of the Rags quality.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Some other thoughts:
Pyotr would seem a logical move but his track record of having challenged games when he is rusty worries me. That ship may have sailed already with RBA not playing him at all in the Islander series and we will need to ride Freddie all the way.

I wish our D was more physical (Burns looking at you) and we were targeting Rangers key guys like Rags are doing to us with Necas, Jarvis (he is getting hammered out front), Aho, Guentzel under their cross hairs. Refs let a lot of physicality go out front and we don’t take advantage of it. FWIW: I’d go after tro, bread, fox and look to put them out of the playoffs similar to what Trouba looked to do against Necas. Harassing their goalie is also not a bad strategy and I had no issue with Svetch’s tripping penalty.

In the Playoffs you need some players on your team that are mean pricks but of course not at the expense of going to the box 10x a game (but rather punish selectively against the other team’s best players). Also, we have “big” defensemen but they don’t clear the net effectively nor with an edge (see game 1) plus we don’t have many forwards that do that either. I gather it won’t be until ‘25 when we get Nikishin that we will have a mean streak guy.

Also, would placing Burns on the 3rd pair going forward make sense? I would then move Skjei up with Slavin (similar to how Rags have Truba on 3rd pair) and hopefully we would have a shutdown pair.

As I thought, Necas has had a lot more room in this series and has been more influential than the Isles series. However, I agree with Cole’s POV on Gold’s podcast the other day in that he needs to be more physical too.

It’s looking grim but we have scored 3 each game so it’s not like that team has been totally shut down. Win on Thursday and it’s a new series.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

He wasn’t for us though.

15 points in 31 games. The PP didn’t produce in crunchtime when he was on the 1st unit either. Let’s not try to act like his ice time quality hasn’t improved pretty dramatically team to team.

 

[chaz4hockey]

15 points in 31 games. The PP didn’t produce in crunchtime when he was on the 1st unit either. Let’s not try to act like his ice time quality hasn’t improved pretty dramatically team to team.

Yup plus the dumb penalties he took at key times. He was worse than Svetch in that regard.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

IIRC, the GAS line was formed after the first game against the Islanders, because the JAG line didn't look good at all in that game.

 

[Svechhammer]

Yup plus the dumb penalties he took at key times. He was worse than Svetch in that regard.

Yeah but we all knew those would go away once he went on the Rag. Most of us predicted it at the time.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

says the king of overreaction.

https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=Hail+to+the+king