Post-Game Talk: Casual 6 point night for McJesus

[Oilers]

Good idea
Mine off the top of my head would be
Gretzky
Lafleur
G Perreault
Mario
Bure
Modano
Coffee
McD
McKinnon (hate to say)
Datsyuk
No particular order after Gretz and prob forgot lots!

Great list
Ovie and Sid would make mine too. Obviously older now but in their 20’s they were a ton of fun to watch.

 

[Navx94]

You seem to base your opinion on short time periods. Need to look at a whole season or more if the player has played them to have a logical view.

Foegele has been a ghost for years here. If anything we’re looking at his short stint of success and justifying him staying.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Foegele has been a ghost for years here. If anything we’re looking at his short stint of success and justifying him staying.

"ghost for years"
49gp, 10g-16-26pts, $2.75m

contract comparables
Brock McGinn - 24gp, 1g-2a-3pts, $2.75m
Jordan Greenway - 40gp, 8g-9a-17pts, $3m
Zegmas Girginsens - 34gp, 4g-0a-4pts, $2.5m
Kyle Okposo - 49gp, 11g-7a-18pts, $2.5m
Jason Dickinson - 53gp, 16g-10a-26pts, $2.65m
Sean Kuraly - 44gp, 7g-6a-13pts, $2.5m
Jordan Staal - 52gp, 7g-11a-18pts $2.9m

Honestly I was going down Capfriendly by alphabetical order and wrote down every player thats in the $2.5-3m range. I couldn't be bothered to keep going which would only embarrass you further.

Foegele hasn't been a ghost. You literally just don't know what a player of his pay grade is supposed to produce.

 

[Fourier]

As great as Gretzky was, I don't think he was as exciting to watch as McDavid is.

In terms of not just great but very entertaining to watch, the names Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey, Guy Lafleur and Bobby Orr would make my top ten "take you up out of your seat" list.

It might make a good poll question. Who was the greatest talent/entertainer in NHL history?

For me day in and day out McDavid is the most exciting player I have ever seen. Gretzky was a very different sort of player. So much of his game was really subtle. He would do things that you might not even notice if you weren't in the building and watching him specifically like break to spots that seemed to make no sense, only to have the puck show up inexplicably. Or skate his shadow over to the defenseman on the blueline effectively taking both guys out of the play and giving the Oilers the man advantage in their zone before making a quick move once they regained the puck to start the play moving forward. But he had his nights where just took over. On those nights he could rival anyone in terms of pure excitement.

 

[jukon]

Sorry I'm late to the party.

That Holloway goal was one of those moments where you are like 'Oh, if only an oiler could have....' in your mind and IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED! Just like I imagined. Insane effort by the kid. Very impressed.

Also i hope this is the coaching staff teaching the team how to get prime chances on screened goalies. A couple of beauty screened goals. I want to see a lot more of that. Too often the team runs into adversity when the opposing goalie plays out of this world. We need to be more consistent with taking their eyes away. When we get to the playoffs, our ability to score goals that the goalie never saw will be a huge factor.

I don't watch a ton of other teams but I noticed that MacKinnon is so smart at knowing the perfect time to shoot the puck through a screen. I've been saying that if McDavid could improve one aspect of his game, that's what I'd want it to be. Sure it was a Draisaitl goal that reminded me of this, but if either can bring this element to our team that would be great.

 

[Messrules11]

Was not Stevens a pretty big p***y when it came to fighting? The prime Lucic was probably even more physical than Lindros, if not as skilled.

What a horrible take.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone call Stevens a p***y. You’re the first.

Lucic? Please, Lindros was a beast, Lucic could barely skate.

 

[Thomas Tatar]

Great list
Ovie and Sid would make mine too. Obviously older now but in their 20’s they were a ton of fun to watch.

Hemsky has to be on the list. He never crushed the points but man did he ever do some fun little moves on the ice. Such a unique style about him.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

What a horrible take.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone call Stevens a p***y. You’re the first.

Lucic? Please, Lindros was a beast, Lucic could barely skate.

Yeah I don’t think Stevens was a p***y haha

Prime Lucic was an animal.

 

[Stoneman89]

For me day in and day out McDavid is the most exciting player I have ever seen. Gretzky was a very different sort of player. So much of his game was really subtle. He would do things that you might not even notice if you weren't in the building and watching him specifically like break to spots that seemed to make no sense, only to have the puck show up inexplicably. Or skate his shadow over to the defenseman on the blueline effectively taking both guys out of the play and giving the Oilers the man advantage in their zone before making a quick move once they regained the puck to start the play moving forward. But he had his nights where just took over. On those nights he could rival anyone in terms of pure excitement.

Back in those days, Sather rarely "saved" Gretzky for the next game when things were in hand. And Gretzky was always hungry. If he had 4 points, he wanted 5. I see that in McDavid, but it's a different game now.

 

[Soundwave]

For me day in and day out McDavid is the most exciting player I have ever seen. Gretzky was a very different sort of player. So much of his game was really subtle. He would do things that you might not even notice if you weren't in the building and watching him specifically like break to spots that seemed to make no sense, only to have the puck show up inexplicably. Or skate his shadow over to the defenseman on the blueline effectively taking both guys out of the play and giving the Oilers the man advantage in their zone before making a quick move once they regained the puck to start the play moving forward. But he had his nights where just took over. On those nights he could rival anyone in terms of pure excitement.

McDavid is the most exciting player to ever play and yes I saw both Wayne and Mario play in their peak/primes.

I used to think Pavel Bure was the fastest player who can make skilled plays I'd ever seen, now when I watched a Bure highlight reel ... it kind of feels (dare I say it) ... slow?

When you get accustomed to how fast McDavid is, other players look like they're in slow motion.

 

[Fourier]

McDavid is the most exciting player to ever play and yes I saw both Wayne and Mario play in their peak/primes.

I used to think Pavel Bure was the fastest player who can make skilled plays I'd ever seen, now when I watched a Bure highlight reel ... it kind of feels (dare I say it) ... slow?

When you get accustomed to how fast McDavid is, other players look like they're in slow motion.

You honestly have to see McDavid in person and fairly close to appreciate how fast he is. And its not juts his skating speed. His hands are incredibly fast. A while back there was a thread on who had the "best hands" in NHL history. I know for some that simply means fancy stick handling but for me it is more than that. Many people dismissed McDavid. Honestly for me I think he is the best I have seen.

Gretzky was very much a unicorn. His skating and absolute talents were much better than he is often given credit for. But it is true, as I am sure you know, that he simply thought the game well beyond anyone else. He was also the best I have seen at being able to use everyone on the ice. McDavid is of course top flight in this regard, but he can still be a challenge to play with.

 

[Fourier]

Back in those days, Sather rarely "saved" Gretzky for the next game when things were in hand. And Gretzky was always hungry. If he had 4 points, he wanted 5. I see that in McDavid, but it's a different game now.

It is true that Gretzky was always hungry. Part of that may even have been self preservation. Despite claims that no one ever tried to hit him, I can say with 1000% confidence that this was not the case. Even with Semenko ect backing him up if Gretzky gave them an opportunity the opposition would have run him. The best way for him to stay healthy was to have the radar always on. And when the radar was on, good things happened.

 

[Soundwave]

You honestly have to see McDavid in person and fairly close to appreciate how fast he is. And its not juts his skating speed. His hands are incredibly fast. A while back there was a thread on who had the "best hands" in NHL history. I know for some that simply means fancy stick handling but for me it is more than that. Many people dismissed McDavid. Honestly for me I think he is the best I have seen.

Gretzky was very much a unicorn. His skating and absolute talents were much better than he is often given credit for. But it is true, as I am sure you know, that he simply thought the game well beyond anyone else. He was also the best I have seen at being able to use everyone on the ice. McDavid is of course top flight in this regard, but he can still be a challenge to play with.

McDavid plays real hockey the way I used to play NHL on video game consoles, just pressing the turbo button all the way up the ice all the time, lol.

There are times when he does something and it doesn't even look like real life, it looks like something from a video game. You kind of have to do a double take and wait for the replay to see if what you think just happened actually happened, lol.

That's happened multiple times with Connor here.

 

[Soundwave]

Sounds like Jake Allen to the Avs.

 

[Fourier]

What a horrible take.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone call Stevens a p***y. You’re the first.

Lucic? Please, Lindros was a beast, Lucic could barely skate.

Lindros was scary. I saw him as a junior and he would just crush guys. Lucic was a feared fighter but in terms of big hits Lindros and overall intimidation I'd take Lindros everyday.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Good discussion. I want to cling to Gretzky but McDavid does things never attempted like challenging the Rangers 1 on 4 and scoring. His highlight goals defy belief for fans but also the true test - players and coaches. Elite processor. Lightning Feet. Hands of a Surgeon. All achieved at the fastest speed this game's ever been played.

Gretzky's elite ability was more like a grandmaster chess whose elite anticipation left everyone in the dark until that incredible pass was made or he finished with a great goal. A tier below those two for me are Orr and Coffey on rockets taking a puck 200 feet effortlessly weaving through pylons to cash with incredible hands. Lemieux probably here too.

Then a tier with Bure, Lafleur and Lindros who had the skills but also ridiculous physical size and strength that was a rare attribute with those scorers. Will take my hate but McKinnon and Makar are among my favourites too.

McDavid
Gretzky
Coffey
Orr
Lemieux
Bure
Lafleur
Lindros

McKinnon
Makar

 

[Tobias Kahun]

You honestly have to see McDavid in person and fairly close to appreciate how fast he is. And its not juts his skating speed. His hands are incredibly fast. A while back there was a thread on who had the "best hands" in NHL history. I know for some that simply means fancy stick handling but for me it is more than that. Many people dismissed McDavid. Honestly for me I think he is the best I have seen.

Gretzky was very much a unicorn. His skating and absolute talents were much better than he is often given credit for. But it is true, as I am sure you know, that he simply thought the game well beyond anyone else. He was also the best I have seen at being able to use everyone on the ice. McDavid is of course top flight in this regard, but he can still be a challenge to play with.

McDavid looks fast on TV, and then you see him live.

I saw him live game 2 against the flames while sitting lower bowl 13 rows up and was blown away by how fast he is and can control the puck at those speeds

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Sounds like Jake Allen to the Avs.

Probably for a 1st some how.

 

[Fourier]

McDavid looks fast on TV, and then you see him live.

I saw him live game 2 against the flames while sitting lower bowl 13 rows up and was blown away by how fast he is and can control the puck at those speeds

I've said this before but the first time I saw McDavid live was when he was 16. I had never seen a junior level player like him. I have been lucky to see him many times since then as I travel to Edmonton for family reasons on a regular basis. There is something visceral about the experience of seeing him live and up close. I have had the pleasure of seeing virtually all of the top players since the late 70's play live. I can't say anyone else comes close to generating that feeling.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

McDavid looks fast on TV, and then you see him live.

I saw him live game 2 against the flames while sitting lower bowl 13 rows up and was blown away by how fast he is and can control the puck at those speeds

Always worth catching pre-game skate to watch McDavid. Comes onto the ice fired out of a cannon. Works endlessly on his stick handling to ensure the feel with puck on stick. Watching his skating and drills is awesomeness. Never cheats a moment.

 

[Fourier]

It seems to me that the value of a 1st has depreciated of late. There are players being mentioned for a first that I doubt would have even been in such a conversation 10 years ago. In 2014 at the deadline Hemsky with 50% retention got a 2015 3rd and a 2014 5th. Vanek and a 5th got a 2nd. Meszaros with 50% retained got a 3rd. Gaborik with 50% retained got a 2nd and a 3rd.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

It seems to me that the value of a 1st has depreciated of late. There are players being mentioned for a first that I doubt would have even been in such a conversation 10 years ago. In 2014 at the deadline Hemsky with 50% retention got a 2015 3rd and a 2014 5th. Vanek and a 5th got a 2nd. Meszaros with 50% retained got a 3rd. Gaborik with 50% retained got a 2nd and a 3rd.

Been trending for a while. T-Bay's been at the forefront of that trading firsts for players like Coleman. Their two recent big moves for Hegel and Jeannot. More sophisticated, data informed decision making weighing odds of late 1st picks making it as players and associated time lag for development against NHL proven players that can slot in immediate (+ optimally with term or amenable to re-signing). Smart.

 

[Fourier]

Been trending for a while. T-Bay's been at the forefront of that trading firsts for players like Coleman. Their two recent big moves for Hegel and Jeannot. More sophisticated, data informed decision making weighing odds of late 1st picks making it as players and associated time lag for development against NHL proven players that can slot in immediate (+ optimally with term or amenable to re-signing). Smart.

So it's clear I have no problem with the Oilers moving a 1st for exactly the bolded reasons. But it still amazes me the type of players that are supposedly in the discussion for a 1st.

 

[Navx94]

"ghost for years"
49gp, 10g-16-26pts, $2.75m

contract comparables
Brock McGinn - 24gp, 1g-2a-3pts, $2.75m
Jordan Greenway - 40gp, 8g-9a-17pts, $3m
Zegmas Girginsens - 34gp, 4g-0a-4pts, $2.5m
Kyle Okposo - 49gp, 11g-7a-18pts, $2.5m
Jason Dickinson - 53gp, 16g-10a-26pts, $2.65m
Sean Kuraly - 44gp, 7g-6a-13pts, $2.5m
Jordan Staal - 52gp, 7g-11a-18pts $2.9m

Honestly I was going down Capfriendly by alphabetical order and wrote down every player thats in the $2.5-3m range. I couldn't be bothered to keep going which would only embarrass you further.

Foegele hasn't been a ghost. You literally just don't know what a player of his pay grade is supposed to produce.

The guys PPG since joining the oilers is similiar to jujhar khairas time with us lol. How can you say he hasn’t been a ghost .

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

So it's clear I have no problem with the Oilers moving a 1st for exactly the bolded reasons. But it still amazes me the type of players that are supposedly in the discussion for a 1st.

Agree but especially for deep Cup hopefuls it can be a surgical move to address a specific need. Tampa hit it really well with a guy like Coleman which drew some shots and criticism for that deal. Yet slotted perfectly to help win while the guy continued his own growth in game. Seems bizarre to think on a 30s journeyman guy like Dowd at 1st round value but his role, size and performance within that narrow window is great value for contract dollar and possibility to be further sliced via retention. Extend quality depth and PK ability and add a precious right shot face-off option, worth a late 1st that likely never plays or is 3-5 years from NHL games.

Helps to have a deep prospect pool to make these types of risk reward moves. But I feel this is a wildly erratic, emotional market starting to refine away from some of the emotional bad decision making often done at trade deadline.

EDIT: We're also seeing some trending toward organizational retools away from defaulting to rebuild. Smarter play to retain NHL proven talent and carve around the periphery instead of blowing up moving hard to find NHL talent for lottery ticket wishes and hopes.