Post-Game Talk: Casual 6 point night for McJesus

[Soundwave]

Kostin is barely getting icetime. No player would be getting much puck confidence playing 8mins a night and few players do find much with that limited minutes and while being scratched.

The mistake was the agent and Kostin deciding to land in Detroit. Poor decision and bad advice. Would've been better for him to stay. They grabbed at the money, wrong decision. But Detroit promised "a much bigger role" and that wasn't delivered and never any intent to. Kostin was getting limited games and minutes all the way back to preseason despite having 3 assists in limited preseason action across around 3-4 games. Detroit went heavy on signing other forwards, several of them, and Kostin was down the chart before season even happened. he didn't gravitate there.

Yeah, several people are maintaining we're just paying Brown league minimum while ignoring the bonus pay out. The reality is Brown being a sum 4M buck cap hit regardless of when thats incurred.

In anycase you were the one that brought this up. Not me. Brown has been a useless sod all season. Precious little comment from you on that all season except the day Kostin is in town. lol specious timing.

It's a tough situation, it's easy for people behind a message board to criticize, but when you're not a NHL player who's had the luxury of a big money contract, you kind of owe it to yourself and your family (future family) to take the most money possible when offered.

An extra 500-750k/year guaranteed for 2 years when you're not a massive multi-millionaire is a lot of f***ing money to say no to.

You never know when or if you will ever be offered that again. When you're a NHL regular/star player you have the luxury of picking and choosing, when you're a role player, you never know.

He was a good fit for us because he did a bunch of things our bottom 6 is thin in (lack of good shooters, lack of physical players, etc.).

The fact of the matter is if basically anyone on this board was offered 90k/year for a job versus 55k/year for the same job ... almost no one, when push comes to shove and it's decision time is going to choose the 55k option even if they really like the work environment and have friends and things seem to be going well.

 

[CupofOil]

One for Nugent. One for Hopkins.

Too bad he didn't get the hat trick to complete the RNH.

 

[bucks_oil]

McDavid has 5 games in hand on both Kuch and Mac

47 games played vs 53 for Kuch and 54 for MacK according to NHL.com...

... but that's not my point. My point is that McDavid missed two games, so two of those games are not "in hand", they are "lost to injury". He's only going to play at most 80 games [knocks on wood] whereas they might still play 82.

If Kuch slows from 1.7 to 1.5ppg, he could still finish with 134 points. McD would need 58 points in his final 33 games (1.76 ppg)

If Kuch maintains his pace, he could finish with 139 points. McD would need 63 in his final 33 games (or 1.91 ppg)

I think he can get there, but he may just run out of time...

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's a tough situation, it's easy for people behind a message board to criticize, but when you're not a NHL player who's had the luxury of a big money contract, you kind of owe it to yourself and your family (future family) to take the most money possible when offered.

You never know when or if you will ever be offered that again. When you're a NHL regular/star player you have the luxury of picking and choosing, when you're a role player, you never know.

He was a good fit for us because he did a bunch of things our bottom 6 is thin in (lack of good shooters, lack of physical players, etc.).

Reasonable view. How many people here would turn down 2M for anything if offered? As you mention no guarantees for a player and the amount of people that hold this against the player specifically, when he decided to get paid is not looking at that nature of situation.

For sure the agent wanted his cut and would have been influencing heavy to take the money. Theres no certainty at this level and cup of coffee is sometimes all there is.

Good for Kostin that he even got a payday. A lot of players that their draft club moves on from disappear in the AHL or Europe.

Kostin has been injured 3X as well this season and also impacting what he's getting done. Possibility this season is it for him. Kostin is having trouble bringing the physical game that got him some success due to the injuries.

For people that don't know Kostin got smoked by a Radko Gudas open ice check. Thunderous hit it was. While Kostin can take a hit he wasn't prepared for it, didn't see the train coming.

 

[Soundwave]

Reasonable view. How many people here would turn down 2M for anything if offered? As you mention no guarantees for a player and the amount of people that hold this against the player specifically, when he decided to get paid is not looking at that nature of situation.

For sure the agent wanted his cut and would have been influencing heavy to take the money. Theres no certainty at this level and cup of coffee is sometimes all there is.

Good for Kostin that he even got a payday. A lot of players that their draft club moves on from disappear in the AHL or Europe.

Kostin has been injured 3X as well this season and also impacting what he's getting done. Possibility this season is it for him.

I love the Oilers, they're my childhood team until now, but if I was like a "working class" NHL player (meaning a dude who hasn't had the luxury of a big ticket contract ever and is mostly just scraping by in the league with year to year near league minimum contracts) ...

I'd pack my bags for Detroit in a heart beat if they offered me 2 mill guaranteed for 2 years versus like 1.3 mill for 2 years over a deal made by the Oilers.

Like c'mon, that extra 700k a year is not peanuts (1.4 million dollars total).

I wouldn't honestly be all that opposed to bringing back Kostin if Detroit retains if the deadline becomes a bit dry. Some role players just work better in certain settings. Just because it hasn't worked out for him with their mix of players doesn't mean he couldn't step right back in here and continue to play as he did last year here.

 

[CupofOil]

I don’t remember most of the Red Wings goals but Skinner definitely could of stopped at least two of them.

I'm curious, which of the two did you think he should have stopped? The DeBrincat whiffed one timer which made it a harder save btw since Skinner was in position to stop it had DeBrincat got all of it, the perfect Perron tip, the jam play in tight when the Wings had like 3-4 whacks at it with no Oiler defender marking their man, the one where Kane had a wide open net uncovered? Also, how can you judge the goals if you, admittedly, don't remember them?

The only one that can be argued as a bad goal was the Veleno goal in tight but, again, not sure what Skinner could do there, the defense needs to either plant one of those guys on their ass or clear the puck out of the crease. I don't see how Skinner could possibly be blamed for any of the other 3.

 

[Kerberos]

I have no idea who they are but listening to the Red Wings' broadcast, I wish Edmonton had a commentary team like that. Such a breath of fresh air compared to Jack and Louie.

Knowledgeable, complementary of other teams and players without being idiotic about it and their anecdotes actually serve a purpose.

 

[Stoneman89]

Hate to have to pick out certain individuals, but man, Foegele is playing like shit. Not generating anything offensively and a giveaway machine when he has the puck. Skinner saved his ass a least a couple times.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I love the Oilers, they're my childhood team until now, but if I was like a "working class" NHL player (meaning a dude who hasn't had the luxury of a big ticket contract ever and is mostly just scraping by in the league with year to year near league minimum contracts) ...

I'd pack my bags for Detroit in a heart beat if they offered me 2 mill guaranteed for 2 years versus like 1.3 mill for 2 years over a deal made by the Oilers.

Like c'mon, that extra 700k a year is not peanuts (1.4 million dollars total).

Better tax situation as well and Detroit isn't an expensive place to live.

The thing Kostin and his agent wouldn't know is the Wings suddenly decided to massively revamp their forward lineup.

All of Sprong, Debrincat, Compher, Kane, Fischer, Kostin were brought in. I think a couple of others as well.

 

[OilerTyler]

Kostin is barely getting icetime. No player would be getting much puck confidence playing 8mins a night and few players do find much with that limited minutes and while being scratched.

The mistake was the agent and Kostin deciding to land in Detroit. Poor decision and bad advice. Would've been better for him to stay. They grabbed at the money, wrong decision. But Detroit promised "a much bigger role" and that wasn't delivered and never any intent to. Kostin was getting limited games and minutes all the way back to preseason despite having 3 assists in limited preseason action across around 3-4 games. Detroit went heavy on signing other forwards, several of them, and Kostin was down the chart before season even happened. he didn't gravitate there.

Yeah, several people are maintaining we're just paying Brown league minimum while ignoring the bonus pay out. The reality is Brown being a sum 4M buck cap hit regardless of when thats incurred.

In anycase you were the one that brought this up. Not me. Brown has been a useless sod all season. Precious little comment from you on that all season except the day Kostin is in town. lol specious timing.

If you are wondering why Kostin doesn't get ice time you need to look at the player himself. He doesn't play special teams, isn't strong defensively and isn't good offensively (despite what he did last season). No coach that he has played under in the NHL has given him minutes. What do you know that they don't? You can blame Yzerman for signing other forwards to play over him but it makes you question how good Kostin is if Yzerman was able to find that many players better than him in a single off-season. He's 14th on the Red Wings amongst forwards in even strength time on ice per game for god's sake. But of course it's everyone's fault but his own.

And why wouldn't I wait until our one game against Kostin this season to comment on Kostin?

 

[Soundwave]

Better tax situation as well and Detroit isn't an expensive place to live.

The thing Kostin and his agent wouldn't know is the Wings suddenly decided to massively revamp their forward lineup.

All of Sprong, Debrincat, Compher, Kane, Fischer, Kostin were brought in. I think a couple of others as well.

I would still take the money anyway, like 700k more or whatever they offered isn't Monopoly money.

Honestly I don't think it would be the worst idea to bring him back. If you can bring him back for $1 million, I'd consider it.

He could be a much cheaper Foegele replacement too if he walks in the summer and could give you a couple of extra goals in the playoffs where every goal can be a difference in a series won or lost.

If you are wondering why Kostin doesn't get ice time you need to look at the player himself. He doesn't play special teams, isn't strong defensively and isn't good offensively (despite what he did last season). No coach that he has played under in the NHL has given him minutes. What do you know that they don't? You can blame Yzerman for signing other forwards to play over him but it makes you question how good Kostin is if Yzerman was able to find that many players better than him in a single off-season. He's 14th on the Red Wings amongst forwards in even strength time on ice per game for god's sake. But of course it's everyone's fault but his own.

And why wouldn't I wait until our one game against Kostin this season to comment on Kostin?

Counter point:

The Oilers very well could be going home in round 1 last playoffs with Todd McLellan doing the happy dance up and down Rogers as they eliminate us with no Kostin and we have the reputation of the team that continually gets upset in the 1st round. People would be saying 2022 was a fluke year.

He heavily impacted that series, arguably was the best non-McDavid/Draisaitl forward on the Oilers.

 

[TheNumber4]

It's a tough situation, it's easy for people behind a message board to criticize, but when you're not a NHL player who's had the luxury of a big money contract, you kind of owe it to yourself and your family (future family) to take the most money possible when offered.

An extra 500-750k/year guaranteed for 2 years when you're not a massive multi-millionaire is a lot of f***ing money to say no to.

You never know when or if you will ever be offered that again. When you're a NHL regular/star player you have the luxury of picking and choosing, when you're a role player, you never know.

He was a good fit for us because he did a bunch of things our bottom 6 is thin in (lack of good shooters, lack of physical players, etc.).

The fact of the matter is if basically anyone on this board was offered 90k/year for a job versus 55k/year for the same job ... almost no one, when push comes to shove and it's decision time is going to choose the 55k option even if they really like the work environment and have friends and things seem to be going well.

All very true. But strudwick on got her ads podcast made a good point. In that sure the short term money is better, but it’s hard to find a good fit in the NHL. A team that has more respect for your skill set and more opportunity. Possibly he could have gave up a way better long term earning potential by taking that quick easy cash. With how weak our RW is and how liked Kostin was in the room and in the city he could have set himself up for a bigger pay day here.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If you are wondering why Kostin doesn't get ice time you need to look at the player himself. He doesn't play special teams, isn't strong defensively and isn't good offensively (despite what he did last season). No coach that he has played under in the NHL has given him minutes. What do you know that they don't? You can blame Yzerman for signing other forwards to play over him but it makes you question how good Kostin is if Yzerman was able to find that many players better than him in a single off-season. He's 14th on the Red Wings amongst forwards in even strength time on ice per game for god's sake. But of course it's everyone's fault but his own.

And why wouldn't I wait until our one game against Kostin this season to comment on Kostin?

Just thought it was odd you didn't comment on Brown all season. You say you acknowledge how disappointing he's been this season but its the first time I've seen you say that and the season is down the stretch.

As far as Kostin it sure hasn't gone well for him down in Detroit. I was wrong on what he might accomplish but then again even at the time I was going on the Wings org saying that Kostin "would be given a larger role there" Thats what they were saying. It was wrong for me to put any stock in that.

Kostin has been injured 3X this season. Of course that impacts his minutes as well. But you look at that depth chart that suddenly materialized and its where he fits in there. Several vets get minutes over him and guys like Raymond, and Veleno have had coming out parties this season and are Wings prospects.

Fischer and Kostin are in the unenviable boat of being on the outs given the roster of forwards Detroit has this season. Its a numbers game.

Like I just finished mentioning the Wings went out and got Sprong, Debrincat, Compher, Kane. Wings have a lot of forwards.

 

[Soundwave]

All very true. But strudwick on got her ads podcast made a good point. In that sure the short term money is better, but it’s hard to find a good fit in the NHL. A team that has more respect for your skill set and more opportunity. Possibly he could have gave up a way better long term earning potential by taking that quick easy cash. With how weak our RW is and how liked Kostin was in the room and in the city he could have set himself up for a bigger pay day here.

It's easy to say that when you have no skin in the game.

For all Kostin knows he could sign with Edmonton for 700k less a year, get hurt in game 10, and now you've screwed yourself out of 1.4 million extra dollars that you kinda, sorta need for the rest of your life.

That's too much of a difference in money to look off.

Now if it's a situation where like a guy who has already been making 5 million a year the previous 5 years and comes to Edmonton, rejuvenates his career and has a great opportunity, great fit, etc. and chooses to leave over 500k/year ... sure in that case I get being upset.

But when you're just a fringe NHL player who has not made a lot of money in your career, getting a guaranteed 2 million/year versus 1.3 million/year or whatever ... you almost have to take it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

All very true. But strudwick on got her ads podcast made a good point. In that sure the short term money is better, but it’s hard to find a good fit in the NHL. A team that has more respect for your skill set and more opportunity. Possibly he could have gave up a way better long term earning potential by taking that quick easy cash. With how weak our RW is and how liked Kostin was in the room and in the city he could have set himself up for a bigger pay day here.

Kostin wasn't getting the minutes under Woody and his minutes were decreasing despite him scoring, hitting, fighting, and playing a role. Even after the Kings series Kostin saw his role reduced despite him being one of the players that made key contribution in that series win. Kostin barely saw the ice in last two games against Vegas only getting 3 mins a game. Kostin was one of the first players Woody would scratch or pull minutes from. Others being young players like Holloway or Broberg. Kostin was liked in the room and by fans. He wasn't liked by the coaching staff it would appear. Woody being the kind of coach that doesn't even put any value on intangibles like hitting, fighting.

It's easy to say that when you have no skin in the game.

For all Kostin knows he could sign with Edmonton for 700k less a year, get hurt in game 10, and now you've screwed yourself out of 1.4 million extra dollars that you kinda, sorta need for the rest of your life.

That's too much of a difference in money to look off.

Now if it's a situation where like a guy who has already been making 5 million a year the previous 5 years and comes to Edmonton, rejuvenates his career and has a great opportunity, great fit, etc. and chooses to leave over 500k/year ... sure in that case I get being upset.

But when you're just a fringe NHL player who has not made a lot of money in your career, getting a guaranteed 2 million/year versus 1.3 million/year or whatever ... you almost have to take it.

With how the injuries have been with Kostin this year, and these are things nobody can predict, its pretty certain it would be league minimum and thats it. So your premise that he's getting 2M vs 1yr at league minimum doesn't sound off to me. Kostin is unlikely to find another contract next year. Maybe, but again no certainty of that.

hockey is an unpredictable and dangerous sport. You never know when your career ends and tons of players have had sudden ends to their careers through injury/circumstance.

 

[Oilers in NS]

Hate to have to pick out certain individuals, but man, Foegele is playing like shit. Not generating anything offensively and a giveaway machine when he has the puck. Skinner saved his ass a least a couple times.

I like Foegele but maybe he needs to eat some popcorn with Brown in the PB. Foegele has been fighting it the last little bit
When the trade went down I messaged the Carolina board. Basically they said one night he could play on 2nd line and next the 4th. He was very streaky. They were right
In saying that, I still prefer Foegele over Bear.

 

[FlameChampion]

Reasonable view. How many people here would turn down 2M for anything if offered? As you mention no guarantees for a player and the amount of people that hold this against the player specifically, when he decided to get paid is not looking at that nature of situation.

For sure the agent wanted his cut and would have been influencing heavy to take the money. Theres no certainty at this level and cup of coffee is sometimes all there is.

Good for Kostin that he even got a payday. A lot of players that their draft club moves on from disappear in the AHL or Europe.

Kostin has been injured 3X as well this season and also impacting what he's getting done. Possibility this season is it for him. Kostin is having trouble bringing the physical game that got him some success due to the injuries.

For people that don't know Kostin got smoked by a Radko Gudas open ice check. Thunderous hit it was. While Kostin can take a hit he wasn't prepared for it, didn't see the train coming.

I don’t blame Kostin at all for the following the money. He spent his whole life trying to make the NHL. He didn’t make much money before that contract and no guarantee he will make more NHL money after the contract.

I have more of an issue with Bjugstad taking 2x2 from the Coyotes instead of taking 1-1.5 from us. He had made 30 ish million before that. Not sure playing in Arizona is worth the extra 1-2m. But he probably gets more opportunity and we never know what a players financials are. We shouldn’t be mad at a player taking the best deal for themselves unless they are just milking it on the ice.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don’t blame Kostin at all for the following the money. He spent his whole life trying to make the NHL. He didn’t make much money before that contract and no guarantee he will make more NHL money after the contract.

I have more of an issue with Bjugstad taking 2x2 from the Coyotes instead of taking 1-1.5 from us. He had made 30 ish million before that. Not sure playing in Arizona is worth the extra 1-2m. But he probably gets more opportunity and we never know what a players financials are. We shouldn’t be mad at a player taking the best deal for themselves unless they are just milking it on the ice.

Bjugstad is a far better 200ft player and even producer than Foegele is. There should be no reason not to have retained him and offered matching offer. If you recall Holland quickly mentioned that the Oilers wouldn't be able to retain, and that the reality of it from his pov was that the TDL forwards would not be retained. But he had no problem throwing money at Brown. At least he let Yams go. Thankful of that.

But Foegele despite brief periods of showing value has mostly been a disappointment and has been for 3 coaches here. Foegele, could even be said is one variety of coach killer. Or that he's blatantly uncoachable.

This is never a problem with such players as Bjugstad.

People know my opinion of Foegele over all is better left unsaid. If I was a coach this player would drive me nuts with his inconsistency one week or month to the next. He'll always be that as others have mentioned.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I like Foegele but maybe he needs to eat some popcorn with Brown in the PB. Foegele has been fighting it the last little bit
When the trade went down I messaged the Carolina board. Basically they said one night he could play on 2nd line and next the 4th. He was very streaky. They were right
In saying that, I still prefer Foegele over Bear.

Nothing works with Foegele. 3 different coaches here haven't been able to get him to unpack his game for more than 1-2 week stints. The player will look like completely different players. Unrecognizable in his different forms. f*** it, I called him a dog f***er. Thats what we would call somebody on a crew pretending to work. Not sure if the lingo is still used. Plus that he's the guy that will show up anytime theres a new supervisor. For a very short while.

If you could replace coaches every month Foegele could be an allstar. (kind of jk)

we should have moved Foegele. The cap is worth more than the player.

Foegele is getting 3.25M salary this season. lolol probably nobody was gonna pay that.

For a player that rarely shows up, doesn't use his size, is blatantly unphysical and offers zero intangibles.

Even a Kassian was value at this kind of price point considering he at least brought intangibles.

Foegele is one of the major reasons our bottomsix is so butter soft. At his contract price you should have a player that can play that can bang too. You should at least have consistent vet that brings it at this price.

 

[bucks_oil]

I love the Oilers, they're my childhood team until now, but if I was like a "working class" NHL player (meaning a dude who hasn't had the luxury of a big ticket contract ever and is mostly just scraping by in the league with year to year near league minimum contracts) ...

I'd pack my bags for Detroit in a heart beat if they offered me 2 mill guaranteed for 2 years versus like 1.3 mill for 2 years over a deal made by the Oilers.

Like c'mon, that extra 700k a year is not peanuts (1.4 million dollars total).

I wouldn't honestly be all that opposed to bringing back Kostin if Detroit retains if the deadline becomes a bit dry. Some role players just work better in certain settings. Just because it hasn't worked out for him with their mix of players doesn't mean he couldn't step right back in here and continue to play as he did last year here.

...And it may sound like a lot, but for many of them it's gotta last a lifetime... there are only so many jobs in coaching/scouting/broadcasting/etc

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I'm curious, which of the two did you think he should have stopped? The DeBrincat whiffed one timer which made it a harder save btw since Skinner was in position to stop it had DeBrincat got all of it, the perfect Perron tip, the jam play in tight when the Wings had like 3-4 whacks at it with no Oiler defender marking their man, the one where Kane had a wide open net uncovered? Also, how can you judge the goals if you, admittedly, don't remember them?

The only one that can be argued as a bad goal was the Veleno goal in tight but, again, not sure what Skinner could do there, the defense needs to either plant one of those guys on their ass or clear the puck out of the crease. I don't see how Skinner could possibly be blamed for any of the other 3.

i was joking around, mimicking posting about Skinner from earlier in the year where he was getting lambasted even on goals most goalies have no business stopping.

 

[FlameChampion]

Bjugstad is a far better 200ft player and even producer than Foegele is. There should be no reason not to have retained him and offered matching offer. If you recall Holland quickly mentioned that the Oilers wouldn't be able to retain, and that the reality of it from his pov was that the TDL forwards would not be retained. But he had no problem throwing money at Brown. At least he let Yams go. Thankful of that.

But Foegele despite brief periods of showing value has mostly been a disappointment and has been for 3 coaches here. Foegele, could even be said is one variety of coach killer. Or that he's blatantly uncoachable.

This is never a problem with such players as Bjugstad.

People know my opinion of Foegele over all is better left unsaid. If I was a coach this player would drive me nuts with his inconsistency one week or month to the next. He'll always be that as others have mentioned.

I think Foegele generally tries hard so I will give him that. I don’t mind the player but I personally wouldn’t over pay for him. Hes big, fast and generally goes to the net. He has some nice tools but his hands are below average and I don’t think he has great hockey IQ. He will once in awhile make a play or shot that entices you.

Hes like a 1.5m dollar player to me though. After this season, some team might give him more but I don’t think it should be the Oilers.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Just unpacking this too but it was Connor McDavid that lobbied hard for Foegele to be resigned here with Woody also being in love with the player.

Why holding on to Warren Foegele was the right move for the Oilers

Foegele was in the running to be dealt last summer, but he's since been one of the Oilers' best players to start the season.

theathletic.com

This article and comments sell a Foegele that is constantly improving and finding further game. Its bogus. Foegele is turning 28 soon and any game he's found would already be there. This is a player that will constantly leave fans wanting more and its been his story his whole NHL career.

Connor McDavid is a great player but his constant lobbying for Foegele and Connor Brown basically means that McD shouldn't be asked what players he wants retained here. The comments are odd too. McD pointing out that Foegele is an important part of the team off the ice and fits the room. These shouldn't even be considerations. Thats a country club ethos. I don't care how friendly a player is and that McD or Drai like him. jebus drai liked Yamamoto. The job of thse players is to be superstars not assess talent.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I'm curious, which of the two did you think he should have stopped? The DeBrincat whiffed one timer which made it a harder save btw since Skinner was in position to stop it had DeBrincat got all of it, the perfect Perron tip, the jam play in tight when the Wings had like 3-4 whacks at it with no Oiler defender marking their man, the one where Kane had a wide open net uncovered? Also, how can you judge the goals if you, admittedly, don't remember them?

The only one that can be argued as a bad goal was the Veleno goal in tight but, again, not sure what Skinner could do there, the defense needs to either plant one of those guys on their ass or clear the puck out of the crease. I don't see how Skinner could possibly be blamed for any of the other 3.

Skinner absolutely wasn’t in position to stop the one time that was whiffed, he barely moved laterally

Hate to have to pick out certain individuals, but man, Foegele is playing like shit. Not generating anything offensively and a giveaway machine when he has the puck. Skinner saved his ass a least a couple times.

His giveaways in his own zone were bad last night.

 

[RegDunlop]

So even Cody Ceci scored before Connor Brown. I'm thinking Skinner might too

Malone has better odds than Brown