Player Discussion Casey Mittelstadt (2017, 8th) #37 - Part III

[JiricekSaveUs]

With Cozens in the pool and CM not performing up to expectations, is there a deal to be made for CM? What would be enticing from MNs end?

 

[Tatanka]

With Cozens in the pool and CM not performing up to expectations, is there a deal to be made for CM? What would be enticing from MNs end?

Kaprizov, Bouldy Greenway might be of interest. I still think Bobblehead is high on him as he was his first draft pick, therefore it would take a significant offer to move him.

 

[joshjull]

With Cozens in the pool and CM not performing up to expectations, is there a deal to be made for CM? What would be enticing from MNs end?

This reminds me of @Chainshot criticism of the organization thinking one of something is enough.

Here’s a crazy thought. Keep him and Cozens. Why not actually cultivate inexpensive in house depth. Something we’ve badly needed for years.

MItts will cost very little after this year. Even if he turns it on in the back half of the season. He can’t be given an offersheet next summer (not that I think he would get one) and he doesn’t have arbitration rights.

 

[Fjordy]

Kaprizov

Great choice.

 

[sabrebuild]

This reminds me of @Chainshot criticism of the organization thinking one of something is enough.

Here’s a crazy thought. Keep him and Cozens. Why not actually cultivate inexpensive in house depth. Something we’ve badly needed for years.

MItts will cost very little after this year. Even if he turns it on in the back half of the season. He can’t be given an offersheet next summer (not that I think he would get one) and he doesn’t have arbitration rights.

This all day. For costs and needs, Mitts will be one of our best deals next year even if he is only a 15 goal 15 assist guy. Why trade for an unknown gamble when we already know this gamble.

I'm still pretty hopeful that Mitts figures it out. At least as a winger at some point.

 

[Chainshot]

This reminds me of @Chainshot criticism of the organization thinking one of something is enough.

Here’s a crazy thought. Keep him and Cozens. Why not actually cultivate inexpensive in house depth. Something we’ve badly needed for years.

MItts will cost very little after this year. Even if he turns it on in the back half of the season. He can’t be given an offersheet next summer (not that I think he would get one) and he doesn’t have arbitration rights.

Thanks. Yeah, there is nothing wrong with letting Casey come to the NHL game slowly. I would still like to see him working on his play in heavy minutes and all situations in the AHL rather than limited, shielded minutes (and lately not at center) in the NHL. There is nothing to say that Cozens is also going to break in smoothly to the NHL, so having a perpetual cycle of struggle in the middle doesn't work for me either. Let Casey grow, let Dylan grow... see where they are in a year or two. If it could very well be that the two of them hitting a development high while on low-dollar contracts will be the push to get Buffalo into (and far in) the playoffs like we've seen with plenty of team in the cap era. They both could be part of that needed economy of payroll.

Maybe re-assess this in a year if he still hasn't progressed. He has moments, but again, even if he's in the best shape of his life, it may still not be up to the peak he could get to as an NHL player.

 

[valet]

Thanks. Yeah, there is nothing wrong with letting Casey come to the NHL game slowly. I would still like to see him working on his play in heavy minutes and all situations in the AHL rather than limited, shielded minutes (and lately not at center) in the NHL. There is nothing to say that Cozens is also going to break in smoothly to the NHL, so having a perpetual cycle of struggle in the middle doesn't work for me either. Let Caet Dylan grow... see where they are in a year or two. If it could very well be that the two of them hitting a development high while on low-dollar contracts will be the push to get Buffalo into (and far in) the playoffs like we've seen with plenty of team in the cap era. They both could be part of that needed economy of payroll.

Maybe re-assess this in a year if he still hasn't progressed. He has moments, but again, even if he's in the best shape of his life, it may still not be up to the peak he could get to as an NHL player.

I think a lot of his struggles are based in his lack of experience. You can tell he has the tools, and he does seem like a clever player. Just needs time to catch up to the speed of the game, and of course, some better linemates. Let's not forget that he's barely into his second pro year. It's wayyyy to early for anyone to be labeling him a bust, when we have seen so many guys take til their D+4 (sometimes 5) year to really get it going.

We should definitely keep him. A trade shouldn't even be up for consideration, if you ask me.

 

[lauraP]

I remember people were calling Reinhart a bust as well despite him getting statically better every year.

 

[sufferer]

I remember people were calling Reinhart a bust as well despite him getting statically better every year.

Apples to oranges.

 

[Snippit]

I remember people were calling Reinhart a bust as well despite him getting statically better every year.

Let’s see if Mitts improves on 25 points then

 

[jc17]

I cant help but wonder if Mittelstadt would have done better with the Olofsson treatment. 68 struggled at even strength to start, but they left him with talented players and let him develop.

I'm glad at the first sign of adversity he wasn't relegated to playing with Sheary and Vesey type players

 

[tsujimoto74]

I cant help but wonder if Mittelstadt would have done better with the Olofsson treatment. 68 struggled at even strength to start, but they left him with talented players and let him develop.

I'm glad at the first sign of adversity he wasn't relegated to playing with Sheary and Vesey type players

I would think "the Olofsson" treatment means a lot more time working on his game at levels below the NHL first. Then the thing that you said.

 

[sabrebuild]

I cant help but wonder if Mittelstadt would have done better with the Olofsson treatment. 68 struggled at even strength to start, but they left him with talented players and let him develop.

I'm glad at the first sign of adversity he wasn't relegated to playing with Sheary and Vesey type players

It might have helped Mitts to play the wing with two good players, but honestly he would have been better off staying in Minnesota for one more year and then going to Rochester.

I know Chainshot was vocal about this, but Mitts had plenty to prove in college after his freshman year.

 

[Orange Fanta]

It might have helped Mitts to play the wing with two good players, but honestly he would have been better off staying in Minnesota for one more year and then going to Rochester.

I know Chainshot was vocal about this, but Mitts had plenty to prove in college after his freshman year.

Its not like he did bad but he didn't light it up either

 

[sabrebuild]

Its not like he did bad but he didn't light it up either

Oh definitely not bad. It was a very respectable freshman year for a true frosh. He just would have been well served to continue the practice and workout routine of college and becoming a dominant player.

My strongest feeling watching him play 5-7 games in college was that I liked his skills and vision and toughness, but he was nowhere near consistent enough nor conditioned enough for pro hockey.

Oh well, we are here now.

 

[Orange Fanta]

Oh definitely not bad. It was a very respectable freshman year for a true frosh. He just would have been well served to continue the practice and workout routine of college and becoming a dominant player.

My strongest feeling watching him play 5-7 games in college was that I liked his skills and vision and toughness, but he was nowhere near consistent enough nor conditioned enough for pro hockey.

Oh well, we are here now.

I still feel like he has a chance to turn out but if he is apart of a trade get a better player now and future i take it but wouldn't trade him for a change in scenery he might be better off at wing since we rushed him but VO man has he really impressed with the development in his 5v5 all around play quick decisions stronger on the puck, couple more offseasons he'll be much more consistent and lethal might even reach an elite level of play during his peak and turn into eichel's absolute stud of a wingman

 

[Chainshot]

I cant help but wonder if Mittelstadt would have done better with the Olofsson treatment. 68 struggled at even strength to start, but they left him with talented players and let him develop.

I'm glad at the first sign of adversity he wasn't relegated to playing with Sheary and Vesey type players

They are at very different points in their development arcs. Putting Mittelstadt in the minors until such time that he is well and truly ready, even if he shows a stretch of quality play in Rochester, would more akin to what they did with Olofsson and of course Olofsson's subsequent adjustments and growth to his game in under 30 games are significantly more than Mitts has done in over 100 NHL games. And that's not a knock really on Casey, at similar ages (draft year +3), Victor was just starting to show what he could do with Modo before even going off to Frolunda (taking into account Victor was draft as an OA, so what was his "D+1" year).

Casey has had one brief segment of productive play, mostly at LW with Eichel and Rodrigues, at the outset of his signing and then has struggled consistently at the NHL level since then, regardless of his linemates. Olofsson was given a lengthy Rochester stint last year and allowed to work not only on the first powerplay but also a part of the Amerks top 4 PKing forwards. It would make sense then that rather than try to fit someone who has not improved much in 100+ NHL games into a line with what few good players the team has, instead send him to a place designed for just this sort of thing... namely, Rochester. So yes, very much give him the Olofsson Treatment. Or the Thompson Treatment for that matter.

 

[Kublakhan]

I'm going to wait about 20 games before I start hating on Mitts, but from the little I've seen from him so far not a large improvement..

I waited... Trade him..

 

[OkimLom]

On pace for 25 points again, but has 3 points in the last 20 games (2 points in the last 4 games). 19 shots in those 20 games (mind you he had a game with 5 shots in one game).

it’s not good enough. He’s supposed to be counted on any type of offense. Even if it’s at a secondary scoring level right now. It’s sad to see how little he’s been able to showcase any of his talents off. Hes a far cry from where he was as a prospect.

 

[Fjordy]

I can’t see progress in his game, he plays in bottom 6, at first he played in the center, then he played a few games on the wing, now they again transferred him to the center, now he looks more like Tyson Jost and will probably remain a player for bottom 6 on 25-30 points per season, but he is still young and he needs to find the right development.

 

[Bendium]

The Sabres have to stop forcing the development of young high level draft picks. It has not gone well even one time. It was one of the most foolish moves in years to throw him into the second line center spot as a rookie 19 year old and hope he saves you by magically filling a roster hole. At this point more damage than good has been done to his development. Casey could be a top six Sabre for the next 10 years so stop forcing it and reset his development plan. Center ice is incredibly difficult at the NHL level and requires a good deal of confidence. Casey was not ready then or now to be an NHL level center.

There are only two options in my mind.

1. Send him to Rochester telling him it is likely for the rest of the year and play him as the #1 center with all the ice time, powerplay time, and penalty kill time that comes with it. Let him work on his faceoffs, get stronger, get more confident, and do it without all the pressure of an NHL dressing room. This my preferred option.

2. Play him as a top six NHL right wing with the ice time and PP that comes with it. Make sure he is playing with two experienced top six players (just like Olofsson) so he has the least pressure and more help. Let him play and learn from good players in an easier role. Line up options would be either:

A. Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart
Skinner - Johansson - Mittelstadt

B. Skinner - Eichel - Mittelstadt
Olofsson - Johansson - Reinhart
​

I prefer option B.

Thoughts?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

The Sabres have to stop forcing the development of young high level draft picks. It has not gone well even one time. It was one of the most foolish moves in years to throw him into the second line center spot as a rookie 19 year old and hope he saves you by magically filling a roster hole. At this point more damage than good has been done to his development. Casey could be a top six Sabre for the next 10 years so stop forcing it and reset his development plan. Center ice is incredibly difficult at the NHL level and requires a good deal of confidence. Casey was not ready then or now to be an NHL level center.

There are only two options in my mind.

1. Send him to Rochester telling him it is likely for the rest of the year and play him as the #1 center with all the ice time, powerplay time, and penalty kill time that comes with it. Let him work on his faceoffs, get stronger, get more confident, and do it without all the pressure of an NHL dressing room. This my preferred option.

2. Play him as a top six NHL right wing with the ice time and PP that comes with it. Make sure he is playing with two experienced top six players (just like Olofsson) so he has the least pressure and more help. Let him play and learn from good players in an easier role. Line up options would be either:

A. Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart
Skinner - Johansson - Mittelstadt

B. Skinner - Eichel - Mittelstadt
Olofsson - Johansson - Reinhart
​

I prefer option B.

Thoughts?

I think injuries have limited the FW options enough to prevent a full-time demotion to Rochester. Also, by the TDL I expect/hope Sheary and Vesey to be gone, requiring Mittelstadt, Asplund, and Thompson to be Sabres. I like 'A'.

 

[sabrebuild]

I think injuries have limited the FW options enough to prevent a full-time demotion to Rochester. Also, by the TDL I expect/hope Sheary and Vesey to be gone, requiring Mittelstadt, Asplund, and Thompson to be Sabres. I like 'A'.

For a gm who gets defended as doing it the right way by developing, it doesn't make much sense that we would prioritize having minimal production at the nhl over the development of one of our most important prospects, at a time when next year is when we really try to win.

Maybe just throw another 3rd rounder at a Vesey type to buy time...

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

For a gm who gets defended as doing it the right way by developing, it doesn't make much sense that we would prioritize having minimal production at the nhl over the development of one of our most important prospects, at a time when next year is when we really try to win.

Maybe just throw another 3rd rounder at a Vesey type to buy time...

Mittelstadt is the outlier from the "development" path, and one outlier doesn't equate to "prioritizing minimal production". Anyway, I answered a question about what do about him now. Right now there are limited options, and in two months a couple FWs should be gone. Thompson will come back from injury, but others will go to IR so Mittelstadt to Rochester is probably not realistic, even if it's the optimal choice.

 

[Chainshot]

On pace for 25 points again, but has 3 points in the last 20 games (2 points in the last 4 games). 19 shots in those 20 games (mind you he had a game with 5 shots in one game).

it’s not good enough. He’s supposed to be counted on any type of offense. Even if it’s at a secondary scoring level right now. It’s sad to see how little he’s been able to showcase any of his talents off. Hes a far cry from where he was as a prospect.

Same thing I mentioned to Vogl - if they had that production out of Dea, while Mitts was doing what Thompson did, would we not feel better about his future as an NHLer? His impacts have been so shit and there is no appreciable growth in his game. Sad.