Player Discussion Casey Mittelstadt (2017, 8th) #37 - Part III

[Sabresfansince1980]

I like Mittelstadt. That being said, whats the point of having a bizillion prospects if you are going to lock up 3 centers long term? Especially given the lack of success as a team we've had.

He'd have legit value as a trade piece this summer.

I think it's probably best to have a bigger discussion about which 2 centers or move forward with rather than automatically giving out a long term deal to Mittelstadt here.

 

[Snippit]

He needs to be re-signed because trading him makes us worse next year.

But the contract does need to be tradable. At some point having a guy like Ostlund come in on an ELC to take over his spot will be necessary cap savings.

 

[Tatanka]

He needs to be re-signed because trading him makes us worse next year.

But the contract does need to be tradable. At some point having a guy like Ostlund come in on an ELC to take over his spot will be necessary cap savings.

Or you move one of the two Cs who are not really Cs. There is more than one option.

 

[RefsIdeas]

Moving Casey would be a big mistake, imo.

You hope Ostlund/Savoie can be having Mittelstadts impact in 2-3 years. We would be worse until they’re able to reach that level. Just seems like spinning our wheels.

It’s why other teams view us as an NHL farm team. We actually draft & develop a player, get him to where we want him to be - then want to trade him because we have other young guys? What?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

He needs to be re-signed because trading him makes us worse next year.

But the contract does need to be tradable. At some point having a guy like Ostlund come in on an ELC to take over his spot will be necessary cap savings.

Mitts is not going to command a contract that winds up not tradeable. 7x7 is probably the max, and in 2-3 years a guy hitting around 70 pts on a deal like that is easily tradeable.

Or you move one of the two Cs who are not really Cs. There is more than one option.

Exactly, there are all kinds of options. I don't remember fans here saying, "we better trade Connolly or Roy because that's too many good players to pay with Briere and Drury at C". After struggling and fumbling to keep quality Cs for as long we have, it's astounding to want to trade the best all-around C we have just because he's a pending RFA, and somehow having three is too much. That's spilling the chili, and falling in it, and rubbing it in the carpet.

 

[Faceboner]

Move cozens to wing and by the time skinny contract is up our prospects should be ready to step into the blank spaces if we can get mitts on a good deal we can still keep the dream of a deep and relatively stacked top 9

 

[debaser66]

Mitts should be the 2nd line center going forward.
Until Cozens proves otherwise, Its whishfull thinking that he could be the 2nd line center, winger is more probable.
If you trade Mitts in the current situation you re going to need to replace him, through UFA or trade and I am not sure its going to be cheaper so why do it and take the risk if something already works?
In a year of failed performances and regression he is the only consistent bright spot through the whole Granato aera.

 

[HOOats]

Mitts is not going to command a contract that winds up not tradeable. 7x7 is probably the max, and in 2-3 years a guy hitting around 7 pts on a deal like that is easily tradeable.

Totally agree.

Curious if people think the Cozens contract is fully tradeable right now (without considering how unlikely you think Adams would be to do it)? Like would other GMs still jump at the chance to have a 22yo 2nd line scoring W/C with size on a 7/7 deal? Or has his rough three months sullied that some?

I tend to think he has almost all his value still, so I wouldn't balk at making him the big trade piece if this iteration totally fails and requires a true shake up. Something like a 29yo scoring winger with grit and a 1st for DC. Replace his present production with a guy who will come off the books in 2-3 years, give Mitts the long-term deal, and have a spare pick to play with in other trades. Plus a major shot across the bow of the room.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Tage and Cozens CAN play center but Mittelstadt IS the true center on this team.

Unless he asks for something astronomical, you have to get a deal done.

 

[Gras]

Tage and Cozens CAN play center but Mittelstadt IS the true center on this team.

Unless he asks for something astronomical, you have to get a deal done.

If Mitts signs for around the same money as Tage and Cozens, any of the 3 contracts should be easy to move in the future if needed.

 

[Chainshot]

Totally agree.

Curious if people think the Cozens contract is fully tradeable right now (without considering how unlikely you think Adams would be to do it)? Like would other GMs still jump at the chance to have a 22yo 2nd line scoring W/C with size on a 7/7 deal? Or has his rough three months sullied that some?

I tend to think he has almost all his value still, so I wouldn't balk at making him the big trade piece if this iteration totally fails and requires a true shake up. Something like a 29yo scoring winger with grit and a 1st for DC. Replace his present production with a guy who will come off the books in 2-3 years, give Mitts the long-term deal, and have a spare pick to play with in other trades. Plus a major shot across the bow of the room.

Considering the lack of applied size in their top 9, I'm not ready yet to send Cozens out as a means to keeping Mittelstadt.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

He needs to be re-signed because trading him makes us worse next year.

But the contract does need to be tradable. At some point having a guy like Ostlund come in on an ELC to take over his spot will be necessary cap savings.

I'm thinking something like 5 x $6.2M. Shorter term means buying fewer UFA years and also lets him come back up for another deal while he's still only 30.

And it's a very movable deal if/when the time comes.

 

[HOOats]

Considering the lack of applied size in their top 9, I'm not ready yet to send Cozens out as a means to keeping Mittelstadt.

Different views in this for sure, Cozens is the poster child for unapplied size to me. We can count on one hand how many significant body checks he's thrown this year. And Mitts is FAR more physical and adept in back checking, protecting the puck and winning board battles right now. Really hoping he shows anything in the way of intensity, physicality, nastiness, jam, in the second half.

 

[Ehran]

Different views in this for sure, Cozens is the poster child for unapplied size to me. We can count on one hand how many significant body checks he's thrown this year. And Mitts is FAR more physical and adept in back checking, protecting the puck and winning board battles right now. Really hoping he shows anything in the way of intensity, physicality, nastiness, jam, in the second half.

Mitts is 3 or 4 years older than Cozens. And he wasn't really noted for being physical in his first few years.

Just like Mittelstadt sort of grew into it the past couple of years I expect that eventually Cozens will as well.

 

[HOOats]

Mitts is 3 or 4 years older than Cozens. And he wasn't really noted for being physical in his first few years.

Just like Mittelstadt sort of grew into it the past couple of years I expect that eventually Cozens will as well.

He's actually only 26 months older, much less than you'd think. But I am team "man strength," so I acknowledge your point.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Well Mitts did have his come to Jesus realisation and started seriously strength training after Rasmussen told him to shape up or give up his NHL dreams. Cozens needs more time to grow out of his lanky state

 

[Tatanka]

Well Mitts did have his come to Jesus realisation and started seriously strength training after Rasmussen told him to shape up or give up his NHL dreams. Cozens needs more time to grow out of his lanky state

His problems are mental not physical.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

His problems are mental not physical.

Cozens needs to add more strength. He's never going to be the most cerebral which is why the Jeff Carter comps work. Getting stronger will definitely help his game

 

[joshjull]

His problems are mental not physical.

I get what you’re saying but needing to get stronger is part of his problem. Cozens upside is as a two way power forward. One who plays a straight line game with speed. He isn’t strong enough yet to play that way with consistency.

Mentally his issue is putting entirely too much pressure on himself and wilting under it. He’s not a dumb hockey player. But he does a lot of dumbs things trying to force plays because he feels he has to make things happen. He‘s young and needs to learn to manage expectations/pressure.

The differences between Mitts and Cozens distilled….

Mitts needed to get stronger to bring his skill to the league
Cozens needs to get stronger to bring his power game to the league.

 

[Tatanka]

I get what you’re saying but needing to get stronger is part of his problem. Cozens upside is as a two way power forward. One who plays a straight line game with speed. He isn’t strong enough yet to play that way with consistency.

Mentally his issue is putting entirely too much pressure on himself and wilting under it. He’s not a dumb hockey player. But he does a lot of dumbs things trying to force plays because he feels he has to make things happen. He is a young player with a ton of pressure due to his status on the team and contract. He needs to learn to manage that.

The differences between Mitts and Cozens distilled….

Mitts needed to get stronger to bring his skill to the league
Cozens needs to get stronger to bring his power to the league.

I have been an advocate of moving him to the wing. Ultimately I think that is where he best fits. I have seen enough to know he does not see the play well enough to properly utilize his wingers as a C. The mental issues he is dealing with are not entirely his fault. He is miscast.

But the team made a decision based on his projected,position. That will be tough to undue. It also makes the winger glut in the pipeline more unwieldy. Tough decisions from a management group who have been stubborn in their convictions to be kind.

 

[Satanphonehome]

Going rate for a 1st line centre will be about $10M moving forward
Going rate for 2nd and 3rd line centres should be what, $7M and $3M respectively?

The obvious solution is giving Casey a similar deal to Tage and Dylan.

Makes sense in terms of roster cost allocation for your centre spine: $21M is not going to break the bank.

Also makes sense from a culture/team identity perspective, in that all 3 can and should be reasonably expected to play and share the load at 2C levels, creating a mismatch against 3rd lines.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Going rate for a 1st line centre will be about $10M moving forward
Going rate for 2nd and 3rd line centres should be what, $7M and $3M respectively?

The obvious solution is giving Casey a similar deal to Tage and Dylan.

Makes sense in terms of roster cost allocation for your centre spine: $21M is not going to break the bank.

Also makes sense from a culture/team identity perspective, in that all 3 can and should be reasonably expected to play and share the load at 2C levels, creating a mismatch against 3rd lines.

Yes, though I think 7 is a smidge high for him. I'd like to see him closer to 6.5 on a long term, but I won't gripe if it's a little higher

 

[BUCKSHOT]

think part of Cozens issue now is he is still recovering from when he got rocked in that fight with Hathaway on November 3

 

[MOGlLNY]

think part of Cozens issue now is he is still recovering from when he got rocked in that fight with Hathaway on November 3

I don’t because he wasn’t good before the fight either

 

[BUCKSHOT]

I don’t because he wasn’t good before the fight either

the 'team' was trying to play a more defensive style for the first 25 games