Player Discussion Casey Mittelstadt (2017, 8th) #37 - Part III

[flashsabre]

for me, I want to see him Rochester next year as well, and I don’t have much confidence in Mittelstadt doing what is needed to take that big of a step from where he is now in one offseason.

He’s proven twice now he’s put minimal effort in improving his game in the offseason at times where the very best opportunities were given to him. This past offseason many criticisms came about his offseason workouts, with many fans making excuses for him, and the critics said we would see where he’s at. Well, here we are. Sadly I have to default to him not taking his offseasons seriously until proven otherwise.

Do you have proof of his off-season workouts? Where he worked out, what he did during each workout? Let’s stop with the fans saw him post a pic at the beach so that shows he wasn’t doing any workouts nonsense. The Sabres organization is in charge of planning each player’s offseason workout programs and checking in on them regularly.

Is he ready to be an NHLer at the moment? No. Did he sit around all offseason on the beach eating junk food? No.

 

[TehDoak]

Nothing is written in stone about Mittelstadt. He's 21.

We put him on NHL ice when he was 19, after a meh NCAA freshman season.

He stayed for an entire NHL season at age 20 when he was overmatched. And it took us 31 games to realize he'd be better in the AHL this year.

And he has been.

In an IDEAL learning curve, he should have had a sophmore year in the NCAA, signed with us last summer, and spent most of the year in the AHL. I don't think anyone who watched the preseason games felt he earned a NHL spot over Asplund or even Ruotsolainen and Lazar.

Let him compete for a role next year. We've got plenty of forward openings. The work he puts in this summer and his physical and mental maturity will dictate where he plays. He's not a bust. He's just still a prospect we put in the NHL WAY too early

 

[Bendium]

No offseason workout will fix the fact that he lacks heart. He lacks the will, the drive, the never stop or die attitude that make the good ones good. Hockey has come to easy for him most his life and the sabres just handed him the crown after the draft without him having to work for that either. This demotion is about the first time in his life he was told he is not good enough, where he is facing enough true adversity that he is going to have to decide if he wants it enough to change. We will see...….but from experience the odds are not in the favor of that kind of awakening.

 

[valet]

No offseason workout will fix the fact that he lacks heart. He lacks the will, the drive, the never stop or die attitude that make the good ones good. Hockey has come to easy for him most his life and the sabres just handed him the crown after the draft without him having to work for that either. This demotion is about the first time in his life he was told he is not good enough, where he is facing enough true adversity that he is going to have to decide if he wants it enough to change. We will see...….but from experience the odds are not in the favor of that kind of awakening.

From your experience as a professional hockey coach or manager of professional hockey teams? Not sure what you mean by from your experience.

Lots of very good players have taken a while to develop. Casey still has a good 3 years before anyone can make definitive statements about his value to the organization.

 

[Dirty Dog]

No offseason workout will fix the fact that he lacks heart. He lacks the will, the drive, the never stop or die attitude that make the good ones good. Hockey has come to easy for him most his life and the sabres just handed him the crown after the draft without him having to work for that either. This demotion is about the first time in his life he was told he is not good enough, where he is facing enough true adversity that he is going to have to decide if he wants it enough to change. We will see...….but from experience the odds are not in the favor of that kind of awakening.

why do certain players get baselessly attacked as heartless or lazy? This wild speculation. As is the “lazy offseason” nonsense

 

[Dirty Dog]

Do you have proof of his off-season workouts? Where he worked out, what he did during each workout? Let’s stop with the fans saw him post a pic at the beach so that shows he wasn’t doing any workouts nonsense. The Sabres organization is in charge of planning each player’s offseason workout programs and checking in on them regularly.

Is he ready to be an NHLer at the moment? No. Did he sit around all offseason on the beach eating junk food? No.

of course he doesn’t have proof.

 

[OkimLom]

Do you have proof of his off-season workouts? Where he worked out, what he did during each workout? Let’s stop with the fans saw him post a pic at the beach so that shows he wasn’t doing any workouts nonsense. The Sabres organization is in charge of planning each player’s offseason workout programs and checking in on them regularly.

Is he ready to be an NHLer at the moment? No. Did he sit around all offseason on the beach eating junk food? No.

did he look just as slow as previous years? Yes. Did he look just as slow in his decision making? Yes. Did he look just as weak in the corners as previous years? Yes.

I do find it funny you are saying he wasn’t at the beach eating junk food, when there are more pictures that actually back that claim up more than there are pictures of his workout routine. But just because there’s no pictures doesn’t mean he’s not working out. I just hold the opinion it’s not enough.

now it’s tough to read if there is a difference a year to year, because of tweaks in diets (though Thompson is a good example of seeing said difference), but you should expect to see a difference in two years which is something I don’t see.

 

[jd1970]

From your experience as a professional hockey coach or manager of professional hockey teams? Not sure what you mean by from your experience.

Lots of very good players have taken a while to develop. Casey still has a good 3 years before anyone can make definitive statements about his value to the organization.

It took Brian Campbell quite a long time to develop.

 

[Bendium]

From your experience as a professional hockey coach or manager of professional hockey teams? Not sure what you mean by from your experience.

Lots of very good players have taken a while to develop. Casey still has a good 3 years before anyone can make definitive statements about his value to the organization.

why do certain players get baselessly attacked as heartless or lazy? This wild speculation. As is the “lazy offseason” nonsense

My opinion on Casey Mittelstadt's lack of heart and drive comes from watching him play, watching him be challenged and back down. Watching him wait for opportunities to come to him instead of attacking and creating those opportunities for himself and others.

No, I was never a professional hockey coach. I did play 11 different sports in high school, played on multiple organized sports teams during my 8 years in the military, played organized sports in college, and continued play organized sports well into my 40's. I always overachieved and surprised people becoming a top player on every team I played on because I played 110%, giving it everything I had, never quitting, and rising up against every challenge. I loved playing against people like Casey Mittelstadt. Hot dogs that worked on their flashy skills to impress the girls, but in a real game, if you attacked them, defended them hard, took away their time and space, forcing them to fight for their opportunities, and use their teammates,.....they never stood up to it, they caved, turtled, took a vacation on the field of play. As I watch him, so far that is what I see in Casey. He has those flashy stick moves that work great on a shootout one on one with the goaltender, but put a relentless defender on him and his trick shot hands are useless. I stated that in my experience, I did not think he was likely to gain that heart. I stand by that because I think with most people it is their at an early age. A person's base personality is set by the time they are 6 years old, and 90% of their full personality it is set by the time they are 12 years old.

He has decent but not high end speed. Worse, he has below average burst, which is made worse by his hesitation to attack the play, close on a defender, etc. I am not a hockey coach, but if I was, I would have him working 100% on his skating burst because it will help with every aspect of his game both offensively and defensively, and I would tell him he sits a shift for every check he fails to initiate or finish, and sit a game for every 5 he collects.

 

[lauraP]

Nothing is written in stone about Mittelstadt. He's 21.

We put him on NHL ice when he was 19, after a meh NCAA freshman season.

He stayed for an entire NHL season at age 20 when he was overmatched. And it took us 31 games to realize he'd be better in the AHL this year.

And he has been.

In an IDEAL learning curve, he should have had a sophmore year in the NCAA, signed with us last summer, and spent most of the year in the AHL. I don't think anyone who watched the preseason games felt he earned a NHL spot over Asplund or even Ruotsolainen and Lazar.

Let him compete for a role next year. We've got plenty of forward openings. The work he puts in this summer and his physical and mental maturity will dictate where he plays. He's not a bust. He's just still a prospect we put in the NHL WAY too early

didn't mitts say if we didn't sign him when we did he'd play 4 years in College so botts signed him then burnt a year off his elc for like 5 games ?

 

[Tatanka]

didn't mitts say if we didn't sign him when we did he'd play 4 years in College so botts signed him then burnt a year off his elc for like 5 games ?

No. He didn't say that.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

No offseason workout will fix the fact that he lacks heart. He lacks the will, the drive, the never stop or die attitude that make the good ones good. Hockey has come to easy for him most his life and the sabres just handed him the crown after the draft without him having to work for that either. This demotion is about the first time in his life he was told he is not good enough, where he is facing enough true adversity that he is going to have to decide if he wants it enough to change. We will see...….but from experience the odds are not in the favor of that kind of awakening.

Sorry Dad

 

[sabrebuild]

syear

It is possible that he put in the best summer of work that he’s ever put in and he still had so far to come to improve his strength and cardio. Hopefully being sent down has that impact of bringing some humility and desire for it never happened again at plants his ass in the gym all summer.

The thing that makes me netvous about that and Casey in general. He stays in highschool his draft year despite being a high first round prospect, and forgoing taking on the much more serious challenge of the USHL, and he didn't win State like a man on a mission. But hey, he is having fun with his friends for the last time... Ok

But then year two, he gets to the U and is clearly not a new man after being embarrassed, one would think at the combine, still relies on skill over effort and skill, and clearly doesn't have special athleticism at the college level. But hey the team isn't great and he is having fun in college and he is home... But ok, with pro talent, he had some flashy games with a pro physique in Tkachuk, and he scored a couple times in his call up... This summer he will take training seriously.

D+2, Mitts has to know he is either on the nhl team or getting a great shot. He has two full months from the O'Reilly trade till camp to put himself thru a hellacious training regimen to get ready. The season happens.,.

Okay, botts screwed him as management, but holy hell, either mitts just doesn't have nhl athleticism or he is lazy as f***. But he's young still. Got embarrassed badly. He will come back next year shredded, ready to let his game be the focus instead of his body/conditioning.

Idk, he very well might figure it out at some point, but I think he might need a wake up call trade to hit his opportunity, because I don't think he thinks this is a profession.

For any who might not know, Mitts family is not poor, so training costs shouldn't have been prohibitive. Univ. of Minnesota has some of the best facilities in the country and the college schedule is ideal for physical training. The Sabres have great facilities he had pro money and one of his good friends/Captain is one of the biggest weight room guys on the team.

I hope he figures it out, but his history is pretty consistent about not pushing to better himself in the gym.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

This thread is giving me flashbacks to someone describing themselves making a scintillating glove save at the ymca, where they used soccer nets.

Thanks for the 15 year old laugh

 

[jc17]

No one knows what his training program is and using the eye-test to gauge body fat% from instagram posts isn't a real good fallback

 

[Zman5778]

Am I concerned about Mitts? Absolutely. Is this a frustrating situation? Absolutely.

Do I think he's a bust? Not hardly.

The Sabres effed up his development. Big time. Doak said it best above -- he SHOULD have been in the NCAA last year. He SHOULD have started this year in Rochester. He didn't do either. Oh well. Move on. He's in the AHL now and by all accounts succeeding. So now what comes next? It's all up to Casey. If he puts in an offseason of hard work, maybe he's ready for the NHL next year. We certainly have the spot for him. Maybe he's not. If he's not ready -- so be it, back to Rochester. No, still not a bust.

I kind of see last year as a completely lost year for his development. So I'm viewing this as year 1. And next year will be year 2. If at the next of next year and the beginning of 21/22 he's not banging at the door to get in the NHL? Then it's time to throw out the B word.

 

[Bendium]

I am coupling him with a defenseman for a genuine 2C this deadline of offseason.

Nylander 2.0

 

[Der Jaeger]

My opinion on Casey Mittelstadt's lack of heart and drive comes from watching him play, watching him be challenged and back down. Watching him wait for opportunities to come to him instead of attacking and creating those opportunities for himself and others.

No, I was never a professional hockey coach. I did play 11 different sports in high school, played on multiple organized sports teams during my 8 years in the military, played organized sports in college, and continued play organized sports well into my 40's. I always overachieved and surprised people becoming a top player on every team I played on because I played 110%, giving it everything I had, never quitting, and rising up against every challenge. I loved playing against people like Casey Mittelstadt. Hot dogs that worked on their flashy skills to impress the girls, but in a real game, if you attacked them, defended them hard, took away their time and space, forcing them to fight for their opportunities, and use their teammates,.....they never stood up to it, they caved, turtled, took a vacation on the field of play. As I watch him, so far that is what I see in Casey. He has those flashy stick moves that work great on a shootout one on one with the goaltender, but put a relentless defender on him and his trick shot hands are useless. I stated that in my experience, I did not think he was likely to gain that heart. I stand by that because I think with most people it is their at an early age. A person's base personality is set by the time they are 6 years old, and 90% of their full personality it is set by the time they are 12 years old.

He has decent but not high end speed. Worse, he has below average burst, which is made worse by his hesitation to attack the play, close on a defender, etc. I am not a hockey coach, but if I was, I would have him working 100% on his skating burst because it will help with every aspect of his game both offensively and defensively, and I would tell him he sits a shift for every check he fails to initiate or finish, and sit a game for every 5 he collects.

You got all that from watching him play?

He’s a center. In general, he’s supposed to be the third forward in the zone. It’s his position to play high in the zone and not commit.

When you send a NHL caliber kid to the AHL, it’s to work on his game. I’d expect Taylor to be focusing him on confidence and defensive zone coverage.

Also, he a skilled center. He’s not going to be a hammer along the boards.

 

[Zman5778]

I am coupling him with a defenseman for a genuine 2C this deadline of offseason.

Nylander 2.0

If he's as bad as you say he is......shouldn't it be blatantly obvious to those that get paid to do this stuff? So why would any organization want him with one of our mediocre Dmen for a legit piece?

 

[Bendium]

You got all that from watching him play?

He’s a center. In general, he’s supposed to be the third forward in the zone. It’s his position to play high in the zone and not commit.

When you send a NHL caliber kid to the AHL, it’s to work on his game. I’d expect Taylor to be focusing him on confidence and defensive zone coverage.

Also, he a skilled center. He’s not going to be a hammer along the boards.

There is part of the problem. He is not an NHL caliber kid. Certainly not yet. He has not shown NHL caliber in any aspect except shootouts. He is soft and has blow AHL level heart. He is a lot more passenger than driver. Not what I want at center. Even if he someday becomes a serviceable 2/3 RW, it will be passible during the season, and then he will get caved against playoff level effort hockey. No thanks. Trade him while he has value for a real hockey player.

 

[Der Jaeger]

There is part of the problem. He is not an NHL caliber kid. Certainly not yet. He has not shown NHL caliber in any aspect except shootouts. He is soft and has blow AHL level heart. He is a lot more passenger than driver. Not what I want at center. Even if he someday becomes a serviceable 2/3 RW, it will be passible during the season, and then he will get caved against playoff level effort hockey. No thanks. Trade him while he has value for a real hockey player.

How are you able to judge his lack of heart? Because he’s not driving his line? Should we trade Reinhart while we’re at it?

 

[Royal Thunder]

I don’t get the “no heart” stuff. Say what you want about Casey but his effort was never in question for me. He busted his ass in the NHL but was just massively overmatched physically. He looked very frustrated at times. I think he cares a lot and I still have hope for him, but he really needs to put the work in this offseason to get stronger and find another gear skating wise.

 

[Bendium]

How are you able to judge his lack of heart? Because he’s not driving his line? Should we trade Reinhart while we’re at it?

That's not even close to a legitimate comparison/argument.

 

[Bendium]

I don’t get the “no heart” stuff. Say what you want about Casey but his effort was never in question for me. He busted his ass in the NHL but was just massively overmatched physically. He looked very frustrated at times. I think he cares a lot and I still have hope for him, but he really needs to put the work in this offseason to get stronger and find another gear skating wise.

Many times I saw a goal against replay with Casey coasting through watching, when a half second earlier he could have started pumping his legs and got himself involved. He wasn't even engaged. Legs straight coasting instead bent into an engaged and ready to react core. Its a mentality and focus. Its the difference between losing and getting beaten....do you know the difference?

 

[Der Jaeger]

That's not even close to a legitimate comparison/argument.

Reinhart in his first two-three years took criticism for floating, not hitting, not driving play.