Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
- 44,302
- 21,912
OT: Career advice
- Thread starter Vinny DeAngelo
- Start date
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I don't remember if I posted anything on this matter already and not to hijack this thread but I need career advice. I don't know what the career advice should be, mostly advice on how the **** do you get a job. It's been 9 month since I graduated from my MBA and I am not any closer to having a job now than I was then. Searching for a job is an absolutely miserable existence. Anyway, sorry for my rant, congrats on the interview.
First - Standard stuff.
Arrive 15 minutes early.
Dark blue suit, solid color tie.
Be well groomed.
Carry copies of your resume.
Do some research on the organization.
Second - Meeting the interviewer
Project an image of confidence, but not arrogance.
Firm handshake.
Third - The actual interview
(I've been on both sides of these recently)
Always try to show where your experience will benefit the organization/team where you are interviewing.
Highlight past accomplishments.
Only bring up negative experiences if you gained insight into how to move forward.
Highlight leadership skills.
Highlight ownership skills. (In your case, teaching yourself software and SQL)
In my company's interviews, we ask about a time when x happened, and how you solved for x, and how x turned out. (It works very well to weed people out.)
I also like to ask about hobbies outside of work. (This doesn't necessarily translate into how well someone will do the job, but can translate into how well someone can communicate with my team and how the person will mesh with the team. It can also show strong independent thinking and perseverance. Managers look for things outside of actual job skills and potential abilities. Communication is the key for me, as an interviewer. If you can't communicate, I will not hire you, period.)
Also, interviews are the time for YOU to interview the interviewer. Ask questions about the job, the organization, and the culture. Always take the opportunity to ask two or three questions when given the opportunity. It shows interest on your part, and also gives you some insight if you actually want to work there or not.
DO NOT ASK ABOUT COMPENSATION ON THE FIRST INTERVIEW!
Fourth - Follow up
Always send a thank you. It used to be customary to send a letter. E-mail may suffice in this day and age.
If you haven't heard back in about a week, follow up with a phone call.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
For behavioral questions follow this format:
Context (10%) - Briefly lay out the situation. Many interviewers get bogged down here when telling a story. Don't.
Action (80%) - What did YOU DO to fix/address the situation. I like to go literally "I did three things to deal with this; first, I..." Spend most of your time here. This is where you communicate value to an employer.
Result (10%) - What was the ultimate outcome? It should be quantifiable in some way i.e. implementing my reporting identified $100k in opportunities to cut costs.
Have 5-10 stories that you can tweak slightly for various questions.
Other random tips:
-Try to keep it conversational. Ask them about their day/week before the interview starts to begin to break the wall. If it flows naturally - don't feel like you have to wait until the end to ask a question.
-Ask questions you can't read online - about your interviewers background, how they have been successful. What successful interns/new hires have done in the past.
Context (10%) - Briefly lay out the situation. Many interviewers get bogged down here when telling a story. Don't.
Action (80%) - What did YOU DO to fix/address the situation. I like to go literally "I did three things to deal with this; first, I..." Spend most of your time here. This is where you communicate value to an employer.
Result (10%) - What was the ultimate outcome? It should be quantifiable in some way i.e. implementing my reporting identified $100k in opportunities to cut costs.
Have 5-10 stories that you can tweak slightly for various questions.
Other random tips:
-Try to keep it conversational. Ask them about their day/week before the interview starts to begin to break the wall. If it flows naturally - don't feel like you have to wait until the end to ask a question.
-Ask questions you can't read online - about your interviewers background, how they have been successful. What successful interns/new hires have done in the past.
Vinny DeAngelo
Jimmy Easy to defend
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Congrats!
Snowblind, the questions above are pretty important. How many jobs are you applying for? Have you defined what type of role you actually want and are qualified for? No offense to you or any other recent grads, but as someone who was VP of a healthcare division and now runs all recruiting operations for a pharma company, I can tell you that many people apply to jobs that they aren't qualified for.
Everyone thinks they are a good fit. They think they are qualified. They think they have JUST what the company is looking for. They don't. They usually don't have half of it and if they do have what the company is looking for, most of those folks fall apart in the interview process. Interviewing isn't just a skill. It is an art. I would be happy to help you with interviewing when the time comes.
My advice to you is apply to jobs like they are going out of style. It is a numbers game. When I wanted to make a move to a new company, I would spend 2 hours a day applying, researching and connecting with people (I had a damn impressive resume and it still took me 2+ months to finally land an interview). Most people fall into the same trap when they graduate. They apply a few jobs. Jobs that would be their ideal jobs and they get pissed off when they don't hear back and complain there is nothing else out there. Apply to everything that is even remotely relevant to your area of study. I think you and I spoke a while back and you were looking to go the PE route. There are tons of firms on LinkedIn. I used to work with PE firms all the time as they funded our acquisitions. Start researching, connecting, building relationships. They aren't the easiest places to get a position with as they usually pay really well. Network. Network. Network. ****ing Network!!!
If you only remember one piece of advice then let it be this, just forget whatever your dream job scenario is.... for now. Get 3-5 years of experience and then start trying to go that route. Your #1 priority at the moment is landing some sort of job. I started out in recruiting. Then went into management. Then was running a division. My first role was a far cry from relating to my degree in finance. But it sure as hell came in handy as I progressed through the ranks.
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I echo all of this. Particularly the part about networking. My college professor told me when I was starting to look for a gig that if you're just sending your resume out online, then you aren't really job hunting. You're just a needle in a pile of needles.
Networking isn't just adding people on LinkedIn either. My buddy got his first job by going to a bar where he knew a bunch of agency people hung out and broke the ice by offering to buy them a round of beers in exchange for picking their brain for a few minutes. They offered him a job a month later.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
You are absolutely right regarding the needles comment. Every job I applied for I would then follow up by connecting with the HR staff on LinkedIn, call the company and try to navigate my way to the recruiter for that position, etc. I've had 3 people this year get hired simply because they found our address, found out I was in charge and mailed a copy of their resume directly to me. That impressed me beyond belief. Sure as heck stood out from the 250 other applicants I had for that one position.
You are also spot on about networking. Look at what networking groups are in your community. A few different groups immediately come to mind here in Atlanta that are business networking groups. Some are for making business connections, others are for job hunting, etc.
There are tons of opportunities. If you are creative and want it badly enough most of the time you can find a way to make it happen.
I have research experience in the media and advertising world and my internship was in the product strategy department for a tech company. It was basically product and product marketing experience.
NCRanger said:
I'm looking at a host of things. I think this is one of my problems, I'm not focused enough. I'm looking at Marketing roles, I'm interested in product marketing as I did some of it. I'm also looking at general marketing manager positions. I'd like to do more junior roles for digital marketing with an eye out for ad tech in the future. Also, Marketing research/analytics, some sort of data roles. And finally, while I haven't looked at these as much because I think it's harder to sell with my resume, I'm open to corporate finance and project management roles. As you see, I'm all over the place, and that's part of my problem.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
I got three new clients in two weeks.
Luck of the Irish came a month early
I mean I have to do exactly that with my clients, but I just always really wanted to use that meme.
Luck of the Irish came a month early
I mean I have to do exactly that with my clients, but I just always really wanted to use that meme.
Maybe, I'm an idealist but I've always thought that while it's always good to be cordial, friendly, and engaging with anyone, that the mark of a good manager is how he handles a disagreement by his subordinate. This is especially true later on in your career when you have enough experience. I think only a lousy manager wouldn't at least listen and consider his subordinates' ideas even if they differ from his own. If he disagrees that's fine.
Its good for branding building since its not used that much for that purpose, write something there and it gets a tremendous spread. Recruiting? Only good if you have a occupation where there is great shortage of people and you are looking for a new job.
Yeah.
And I do think it works for everyone to be themselves, BUT, do NEVER expect that it is possible to be one way when talking with your partner/peers about your superiors/colleagues and another way when you act in relation to them.
I think this is a very common mistake people do. They "indulge" in talking trash about their superiors/colleagues at work more or less when they can't hear them, like isn't that what you do? Nobody means it 100% seriously right?
But its not good for anyone. It will reflect how you feel, how much you enjoy work and what not. And it will definitely notice a lot in relation to these people even if you don't intend it to.
I think the best way to be is very understanding of people around you, allow mistakes by them that are only natural, but don't accept things you don't think you should have to accept and it is something you think can be changed. If not, look for another job.
Sorry, I missed this post. Thanks for the advice. To respond to a couple of your points:
1) I've applied to a lot of jobs and some that I wasn't qualified for sure. I've actually applied at this point to over 250 just (probably closer to 270 if not more). There was a time when I would apply to director level jobs, only a few of those. I have stopped doing that and wasting everyone's time. But I probably applied to less than 10 total jobs with anything above "manager" in the title. That said, what I'm qualified for I think is subjective. I know what I wouldn't be comfortable with. For example, anything operations heavy. I didn't study take too many operations classes at my MBA. Now marketing is 99% of what I've applied for, mostly due to my resume being marketing heavy. I think most of those roles I'm qualified for. They're not rocket science. Another job that I'm sure I can do, corporate finance for most companies. Once again, not rocket science. However, I really have nothing that says "corporate finance" about my resume except for a finance concentration. Project management, I'm sure I could do. I feel like an MBA is supposed to give you the tools to do all sorts of different things.
When we were on campus and companies came to recruit, the vast majority of people were career switchers and some of the best companies in the world were OK with that. Smart people that know how to think and have a business education can figure out most of these projects. So for them I was qualified. Now the quality of companies went down and it seems like they all want direct experience and I'm not qualified. A lot of companies I'm sure don't recruit MBAs who are mainly career switchers and only know one way of recruiting, get someone who has done almost the exact same thing. The problem is what I did at my MBA intership wasn't long enough. What I did in the job before that was sort of a unique position you won't find anywhere. What I did in the job before that I don't particularly want to do. So I'm left with a bunch of roles I think I can do, but the recruiters find someone who has more direct experience.
2) Regarding networking, I've done some of it, haven't been successful. I haven't done it enough, I have purposely avoided it because it's the bane of my existence. I think I'll ramp it up again. But I think this is the best way to get a job that I don't have direct experience in and that isn't entry level.
3) I wanted to do equity research at one point, but that has long passed. PE sounds interesting, but it's hard to get into even after a Harvard MBA. That's something you do after working in investment banking a few years as far as I know.
Anyway, thanks for all of the advice!
It's useful because it tells you what connections or people that are alums from your school or worked at your job previously work at a certain company. That allows to message them and network. Though, it's been buggy lately. Every time I click on a link that says "X amount of your school's alums work here" I get an error message. But in general it's good for networking. It also has a lot of job postings.
egelband
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2008
- 16,199
- 15,058
my best advice is to find something you like and/or are good at...and build a business or some sort of way to get paid doing it. Try to avoid being a 'salaryman'. If you can, control your own destiny.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
I'm going to respond to this one because its shorter lol.
How many different versions of your resume do you have? I would suggest having a few that focus on different areas. Having one blanket resume isn't going to cut it a lot of times. I had 7 different resumes. All with different titles (but applicable titles). For example, if I had VP on my resume, some positions wouldn't have even looked at me because I was overqualified. So I would change it to Operations Manager. Some resumes were more Home Healthcare focused. Some were more Talent Acquisition focused. It will be a lot of work but tailoring your resume to the job you are applying for is fairly helpful.
You also need to be alright with getting out of your comfort zone. Many people start at positions which weren't heavy areas of study during their time getting their BBA or MBA. Companies look more for cultural fit, personality, being trainable and emotional intelligence than anything else. Emotional intelligence is the future of interviewing.
I have two versions of my resume but highlight different clubs or change my title when I want to. My different versions differ just by order of bulletpoints. I've been told a number of times to have different versions of my resumes. But I guess outside of maybe adding a line here or there that I haven't before, I feel like I did what I did, I don't know how many different versions I can create.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
You sound like a corsi nerd, bud
I agree, though. I don't really play the resume game these days, but I have different versions of my advertising depending on the clientele I'm targeting.
BTW, when people say emotional intelligence what is meant more by it an a corporate setting? Empathy and agreeableness or being professional and knowing how to talk with clients and represent the company well. I would guess it might differ based on role.
Vinny DeAngelo
Jimmy Easy to defend
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
You sound like a corsi nerd, bud
I agree, though. I don't really play the resume game these days, but I have different versions of my advertising depending on the clientele I'm targeting.
If these new fangled fancy stats were around 10 years ago when I first joined these boards when my life consisted of school and the gym, I would likely be a fancy stats nerd.
The bold is exactly what you want though. Many people forget their audience.
The best way I can describe it is: Rangers lose in OT, Game 7 of the SCF due to one of the worst calls ever seen. Mr. Machine H. goes on a rampage all over HF and gets banned. Gardner M. expresses his/her frustration in a socially acceptable manner. (Sorry J. You were the first person that came to mind
)Emotional intelligence is the ability to trigger the appropriate response based on the setting and not necessarily what your emotions tell you. More companies are interviewing with a lot of questions based on how you handle conflict.
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