OT: Career advice

[NCRanger]

Yeah it's kinda crazy how brazen they are about asking you to downgrade your position. "Hey, I see you're a lead with your company and are full time. Are you interested in downgrading to junior level for six months with this other company?"

EXACTLY! This nails my experience to a T, even to the current job description.

Actually talked with one of them for a while about why he (they) are doing this. Told me that, at least in Charlotte, the unemployment rate for IT people is virtually zero. That said, the ability to be upwardly mobile, again, at least in Charlotte, has virtually disappeared. Companies are desperate for mid-range IT professionals (business analysts, data analysts, etc.), but they are not interested in paying for experience.

I really haven't had a real raise in 8 years, even though my responsibilities have grown from middle range work to senior level work as well as managing, interviewing, hiring, etc. I, unfortunately, do not have the ability to jump any more, as the senior level positions that used to be available have been migrated to larger markets.

Hence the reason I told the OP, there are jobs here for his skill set. He'll have to move in 5 years, but he can get his foot in the door.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Yeah it's kinda crazy how brazen they are about asking you to downgrade your position. "Hey, I see you're a lead with your company and are full time. Are you interested in downgrading to junior level for six months with this other company?"

I usually check the recruiter's profile before I respond. I've had a few Class of 2015 grads ask me if I'm interested in certain jobs. They send me the job descriptions and it's 3 years experience, post entry level stuff I did 10 years ago. They have no idea what they're recruiting for.

You're basically asking me if I want to move companies to work for person who has my job now?

 

[Trxjw]

EXACTLY! This nails my experience to a T, even to the current job description.

Actually talked with one of them for a while about why he (they) are doing this. Told me that, at least in Charlotte, the unemployment rate for IT people is virtually zero. That said, the ability to be upwardly mobile, again, at least in Charlotte, has virtually disappeared. Companies are desperate for mid-range IT professionals (business analysts, data analysts, etc.), but they are not interested in paying for experience.

I really haven't had a real raise in 8 years, even though my responsibilities have grown from middle range work to senior level work as well as managing, interviewing, hiring, etc. I, unfortunately, do not have the ability to jump any more, as the senior level positions that used to be available have been migrated to larger markets.

Hence the reason I told the OP, there are jobs here for his skill set. He'll have to move in 5 years, but he can get his foot in the door.

Sounds like Charlotte is a lot like how Pittsburgh was a few years ago. A sudden boom of tech jobs that were rapidly filled, but companies were very slow to catch up in their organizational structure and compensation packages. They were plucking people right out of school and a few years later, those people realized they had gotten stuck. Now things have finally started to balance out, and it's harder and harder to find talent. Thus driving up the compensation packages.

 

[Trxjw]

I usually check the recruiter's profile before I respond. I've had a few Class of 2015 grads ask me if I'm interested in certain jobs. They send me the job descriptions and it's 3 years experience, post entry level stuff I did 10 years ago. They have no idea what they're recruiting for.

You're basically asking me if I want to move companies to work for person who has my job now?

I average around 4 or 5 inquiries a week and I barely even read them. I've been getting a lot of out-of-market requests as well. I haven't ever landed a job from a Linkedin "cold-call" but I have referred them to a few people and managed to get a referral bonus for it.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I don't think schools do enough to stress this.

The job market is truly terrible right now, especially for professionals. There's such a huge focus on low paying ELPs with minimal growth, it's basically all the jobs that my fellow graduates got out of school. The financial market especially is just so saturated with thousands of kids that all have identical qualifications. One of my old classmates came in 2nd place in the CFA Institute challenge and had one of the most decorated resumes in the school and it took him until the month of his graduation to get an offer. I gave up trying to force myself into something I hate and just did something different, and I had a really good resume.

Learn excel, like, now. It's so valuable, having skill in PivotTable alone will get you at least 2 interviews.

I completely agree, Rasp.

Schools don't stress post-school job searching at all, really. They try to say that they prep you for interviews, but 99% of your schooling is useless academia that has no bearing on what you'll actually do in the real world.

I assume it's different for folks being taught to code or for medical students, but for just about everyone else? LOL. Good luck after graduation.

This goes back to my harping on on campus interviews and internship programs. You want a job after graduation? This is about the only way to get one. And even then, usually only 90% or so of the kids at any given internship will get a full time offer.

I can't imagine trying to find a job straight out of undergrad right now. The prospects are so laughably bad unless you want to do menial work that may or may not remotely advance your career or go into an unpaid/underpaid internship program. That's about all that is out there. And the internship programs are going to be stupid competitive.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I usually check the recruiter's profile before I respond. I've had a few Class of 2015 grads ask me if I'm interested in certain jobs. They send me the job descriptions and it's 3 years experience, post entry level stuff I did 10 years ago. They have no idea what they're recruiting for.

You're basically asking me if I want to move companies to work for person who has my job now?

Most recruiters are morons. Legal recruiters know what's up, but they are, frankly, too harsh in their requirements generally. So the opposite problem.

 

[nyrage]

Whatever options you end up pursuing, never put your career ahead of yourself. Try to avoid careers that are likely to make your non-work relationships suffer (unfortunately this is unavoidable with many high paying jobs). Don't let anyone's preconceptions about what you should or shouldn't "do with your life" cloud your reflection on what it is that YOU want to spend your time on.

Agreed. I spent my first 10 years working in the music industry in NY. Lots of fun, but not financially lucrative. Then I got my Finance degree and went on to work 20 years in the Oil Industry in Houston. I worked 60-80 hours a week. I got paid really well, but didn't have a lot of free time to enjoy the income. Plus the work wasn't exactly scintillating. I think the crazy hours probably led to a divorce as we started drifting apart.

I just decided to walk away from the Oil industry. I'm not sure what I will do next, but I want a more enjoyable lifestyle now that I'm about to turn 50.

 

[Thordic]

I can't imagine trying to find a job straight out of undergrad right now. The prospects are so laughably bad unless you want to do menial work that may or may not remotely advance your career or go into an unpaid/underpaid internship program. That's about all that is out there. And the internship programs are going to be stupid competitive.

I just hired for around 20 positions, entry level financial services jobs. Our ideal candidate was recent college graduates looking to get their foot in the door and build experience, even if that meant they'd be leaving in a few years.

I think I got ONE applicant straight out of college. This wasn't in the NYC metro area but I was amazed at how hard it was to get applicants out of college. We reached out to several local colleges. I think there is a disconnect at some level as to what channels college graduates should use to find work, even through their own school.

 

[Crease]

I just hired for around 20 positions, entry level financial services jobs. Our ideal candidate was recent college graduates looking to get their foot in the door and build experience, even if that meant they'd be leaving in a few years.

I think I got ONE applicant straight out of college. This wasn't in the NYC metro area but I was amazed at how hard it was to get applicants out of college. We reached out to several local colleges. I think there is a disconnect at some level as to what channels college graduates should use to find work, even through their own school.

Could there be an entitlement factor? I admit to outright dismissing scores of perfectly good entry level jobs out of college because I thought I should start higher or in my ideal department.

 

[Thordic]

Could there be an entitlement factor? I admit to outright dismissing scores of perfectly good entry level jobs out of college because I thought I should start higher or in my ideal department.

It could have been, hard to say. Even if they didn't take the job, I'd rather go through the interview to try to sell them on it. You want all the interview experience you can get when you graduate, in my opinion. It was literally 1 applicant out of well over 200 total.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

It could have been, hard to say. Even if they didn't take the job, I'd rather go through the interview to try to sell them on it. You want all the interview experience you can get when you graduate, in my opinion. It was literally 1 applicant out of well over 200 total.

wow thats kinda opposite of everything i hear on my side(the graduating/recent graduate). everyone is saying how they can get jobs.

 

[Thordic]

wow thats kinda opposite of everything i hear on my side(the graduating/recent graduate). everyone is saying how they can get jobs.

They must have been getting jobs elsewhere I'm sure it depends on the location as well, this wasn't in the NYC metro area.

 

[NCRanger]

They must have been getting jobs elsewhere I'm sure it depends on the location as well, this wasn't in the NYC metro area.

There are tons of entry level and mid-range positions in Charlotte, NC. The city can't build apartments fast enough for all the younger people moving here.

There are lots of contract positions available, unfortunately, the rates are at what they were in 2008.

There aren't many senior level/manager positions AT ALL. Therefore, there has been an exodus of higher skilled/higher compensated people out of Charlotte.

It is a very, very, very strange market right now.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I just hired for around 20 positions, entry level financial services jobs. Our ideal candidate was recent college graduates looking to get their foot in the door and build experience, even if that meant they'd be leaving in a few years.

I think I got ONE applicant straight out of college. This wasn't in the NYC metro area but I was amazed at how hard it was to get applicants out of college. We reached out to several local colleges. I think there is a disconnect at some level as to what channels college graduates should use to find work, even through their own school.

I would bet this is an issue with the colleges.

Are you guys doing on campus recruiting or is this just straight up job board stuff, though, that would be advertised at a college that way? Or was this an effort to get the college to pass on recruits to you guys? Keep in mind that college career folks are likely to be lazy and may have just done a **** awful job at advertising/pushing this stuff.

 

[silverfish]

One low-key item that I don't think has been said yet.

While you're looking for jobs, make sure you're taking a note of what sort of skills they are looking for. If you're seeing like: "Must know one of R, Python, SQL..." sort of things over and over again, make sure you learn that skill if you don't know it yet.

 

[Thordic]

I would bet this is an issue with the colleges.

Are you guys doing on campus recruiting or is this just straight up job board stuff, though, that would be advertised at a college that way? Or was this an effort to get the college to pass on recruits to you guys? Keep in mind that college career folks are likely to be lazy and may have just done a **** awful job at advertising/pushing this stuff.

Our internal recruiters handled the details, but I believe it was mostly job boards. There were career fairs done at a couple colleges but I believe they took place prior to our positions being posted (other departments were hiring prior to us, we were staffing a new site).

Recruiting definitely isn't my specialty, in my main office in Jersey City we have very little problem finding candidates but it's usually one at a time here and there.

Another comment I'll toss out there, based on personal experience:

Back office operations is often looked down on. However, since it gets passed over by a lot of candidates in financial services, if you are bright and motivated you will stand out and can carve out a nice career. And most front office folks don't know squat about how things actually get done, so you can step into front office jobs a few years into your career with a unique skill set.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

One low-key item that I don't think has been said yet.

While you're looking for jobs, make sure you're taking a note of what sort of skills they are looking for. If you're seeing like: "Must know one of R, Python, SQL..." sort of things over and over again, make sure you learn that skill if you don't know it yet.

To take this a step further, when you're building a resume, tailor your skills section to what the COMPANY is looking for. Don't paste word for word what they want, but if they are asking for skill X, make sure you highlight that you possess skill X (and perhaps skill Y if it pertains to X).

So many folks don't tailor their resumes. It's mind boggling.

Furthermore, take the effort to tailor your cover letter. This should be common knowledge, but I know far too many folks who use generic cover letters for everything. That's not saying that you can't have a couple of paragraphs that stay the same, but your opening paragraph (or the first that you discuss why you're applying for the position) should be tailored to the company and unique. As should be the closing. JMO, of course.

Also, I tend to like sending thank you emails. I've heard from a number of interviewing folks that they simply passed over someone who didn't send them. I've never once heard one say that they were annoyed by them and passed over someone for sending one. The "thank you" email should be short and tailored to your interview experience. It is a very minor part of the hiring process, but why chance ticking someone off for not sending one even if it's not likely to help overall? I know that when I've interviewed people in the past that I've made sure to note whether or not they sent a "thank you".

 

[Raspewtin]

I would bet this is an issue with the colleges.

Are you guys doing on campus recruiting or is this just straight up job board stuff, though, that would be advertised at a college that way? Or was this an effort to get the college to pass on recruits to you guys? Keep in mind that college career folks are likely to be lazy and may have just done a **** awful job at advertising/pushing this stuff.

Most colleges now have their own career portals. If there's no OCR reps, they aren't on the portal, or they don't visit during career fairs, you will never hear about the company. My alma matter had a pretty bad one that bugged out a lot and one bug cost me a really good summer internship two years ago. They also sell you on the idea that these are trusted links who are looking for people like you, when plenty of bogus companies got to advertise positions (think those car cleaning product companies passing themselves off as a marketing firm).

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Our internal recruiters handled the details, but I believe it was mostly job boards. There were career fairs done at a couple colleges but I believe they took place prior to our positions being posted (other departments were hiring prior to us, we were staffing a new site).

Recruiting definitely isn't my specialty, in my main office in Jersey City we have very little problem finding candidates but it's usually one at a time here and there.

Oh, OK. Sounds more like the overall recruitment process your company used, then. I figured career services people were just being lazy.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Most colleges now have their own career portals. If there's no OCR reps, they aren't on the portal, or they don't visit during career fairs, you will never hear about the company. My alma matter had a pretty bad one that bugged out a lot and one bug cost me a really good summer internship two years ago. They also sell you on the idea that these are trusted links who are looking for people like you, when plenty of bogus companies got to advertise positions (think those car cleaning product companies passing themselves off as a marketing firm).

My best friend mentioned this. This is also super prevalent on Indeed and the other job boards. So much scamming going on.

 

[sbjnyc]

One area to consider if you are hell bent on working now and not going to grad school would be insurance. The underwriting side and the analytical side both exist and are generally hiring. I see "stats" positions at insurers like AIG open quite often.

If you have any technical skills (programming and math) then look into the actuarial profession (potential employers include governments, consultants, banks, finance companies and insurers). If you have any interest at all then think about taking exams now. If you took the math GRE then you might get some credit. Plus there is some relationship between the actuarial exams and the CFA exams. I don't recall which way it goes but I think if you pass a certain actuarial exam or 2 you can get credit for the 1st CFA exam (or maybe it's the other way around).

 

[Thordic]

Also, not to bombard the thread with posts, but LEARN EXCEL. I can't stress that enough. It's amazing how many people have no clue how to do anything more than use the SUM function. Vlookups, Pivot tables, etc. Learn them, love them, live them.

 

[True Blue]

wow thats kinda opposite of everything i hear on my side(the graduating/recent graduate). everyone is saying how they can get jobs.

So much of it depends on location and the type of industry. I cannot speak for all industries, but if you want to work in the financial industry such as I-banking, you need to get a few years of work experience and then get an MBA. Grades and top schools count.

If it is anywhere else in the financial industry a way in may be to go through the Big 4 accounting firms. They are always hiring. It is a way into the industry and a way to start to earn a pay check. From there you can branch out if you can. Or stay and obtain a CPA or CFA.

Clearly for law firms and medical professional, the way runs through those respective secondary schools.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

So much of it depends on location and the type of industry. I cannot speak for all industries, but if you want to work in the financial industry such as I-banking, you need to get a few years of work experience and then get an MBA. Grades and top schools count.

If it is anywhere else in the financial industry a way in may be to go through the Big 4 accounting firms. They are always hiring. It is a way into the industry and a way to start to earn a pay check. From there you can branch out if you can. Or stay and obtain a CPA or CFA.

Clearly for law firms and medical professional, the way runs through those respective secondary schools.

True, I always see positions for Deloitte, for example. Granted, they are generally seen as sweatshops and initial pay kinda sucks. But it's great experience, they are big names, and they look great on the ol' resume.

 

[Doctor King Schultz]

True, I always see positions for Deloitte, for example. Granted, they are generally seen as sweatshops and initial pay kinda sucks. But it's great experience, they are big names, and they look great on the ol' resume.

I worked at a Big 4 firm up until a few months ago. It sucks but it led to me getting a great job after.