OT: Career advice

[SnowblindNYR]

And I got rejected. So one of two things happened and both of them suck balls.

1) The interview was worse than I thought. I have no self-awareness and I suck at interviewing. My best is just not good enough.

2) Someone had experience that was a better fit. That's a problem because my resume sucks and this just confirms it. I don't mean that it's poorly made. It's fine from that standpoint. I mean that my experience is not focused enough and there are just no roles that companies see direct experience for. But even going back to my old agency where it would closer to direct experience I haven't even got an interview.

All in all, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I'm tired of having absolutely no stability in any facet of my life. I'm tired of not achieving the most important parts of my life. I get insanely passionate about my sports teams because that's literally all I f***ing have now.

 

[RangerLifer]

And I got rejected. So one of two things happened and both of them suck balls.

1) The interview was worse than I thought. I have no self-awareness and I suck at interviewing. My best is just not good enough.

2) Someone had experience that was a better fit. That's a problem because my resume sucks and this just confirms it. I don't mean that it's poorly made. It's fine from that standpoint. I mean that my experience is not focused enough and there are just no roles that companies see direct experience for. But even going back to my old agency where it would closer to direct experience I haven't even got an interview.

All in all, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I'm tired of having absolutely no stability in any facet of my life. I'm tired of not achieving the most important parts of my life. I get insanely passionate about my sports teams because that's literally all I ****ing have now.

I'm so sorry you are feeling this way. Good luck. I feel like this at times too.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'm so sorry you are feeling this way. Good luck. I feel like this at times too.

Thanks. I haven't had any stability in my life since March 2014. It's driving me crazy.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

And I got rejected. So one of two things happened and both of them suck balls.

1) The interview was worse than I thought. I have no self-awareness and I suck at interviewing. My best is just not good enough.

2) Someone had experience that was a better fit. That's a problem because my resume sucks and this just confirms it. I don't mean that it's poorly made. It's fine from that standpoint. I mean that my experience is not focused enough and there are just no roles that companies see direct experience for. But even going back to my old agency where it would closer to direct experience I haven't even got an interview.

All in all, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I'm tired of having absolutely no stability in any facet of my life. I'm tired of not achieving the most important parts of my life. I get insanely passionate about my sports teams because that's literally all I ****ing have now.

Thats how I felt before I started my current position. My only real experience was a 3 month internship at the state congress. I struggled in all kinds of interviews. I remember interviewing with MS and they asked me how Corporate Actions function and I was stumped. But eventually I started going into these interviews with no pressure on myself. I felt i wasn't going to get it anyway so I was more calm.

The key is to pick yourself up and keep going. I got rejected for over 250 jobs. I interviewed with about 30 different companies.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Thats how I felt before I started my current position. My only real experience was a 3 month internship at the state congress. I struggled in all kinds of interviews. I remember interviewing with MS and they asked me how Corporate Actions function and I was stumped. But eventually I started going into these interviews with no pressure on myself. I felt i wasn't going to get it anyway so I was more calm.

The key is to pick yourself up and keep going. I got rejected for over 250 jobs. I interviewed with about 30 different companies.

I'm at 220. The problem is I've only interviewed with 3 companies. On the one hand, it's less painful on the other hand I feel like a sitting duck. I'm not even getting interviews.

And this interview I thought was legit one of the best I've ever had. Mind you, I've never been a great interviewer but I'd like to think that I have SOME self-awareness. I got a form email rejection. It was the next day which is more than I get usually so I can't complain but I really hope I get feedback. I don't know what went wrong. The problem is that if someone had the same exact experience at a competitor I just can't compete with that. The fewer leaps in logic you have to make to hire someone, the more likely it is they'll get hired.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I'm at 220. The problem is I've only interviewed with 3 companies. On the one hand, it's less painful on the other hand I feel like a sitting duck. I'm not even getting interviews.

And this interview I thought was legit one of the best I've ever had. Mind you, I've never been a great interviewer but I'd like to think that I have SOME self-awareness. I got a form email rejection. It was the next day which is more than I get usually so I can't complain but I really hope I get feedback. I don't know what went wrong. The problem is that if someone had the same exact experience at a competitor I just can't compete with that. The fewer leaps in logic you have to make to hire someone, the more likely it is they'll get hired.

Reach out to HR and ask. Tell them you'd like to make yourself a better candidate in the future. I can't imagine them not wanting to help you a bit.

 

[Crease]

Snowblind, while there is some randomness to the process, 3 interviews in 220 applications seems low. Makes me think you're either overqualified or underqualified for some of the jobs you've applied for.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Snowblind, while there is some randomness to the process, 3 interviews in 220 applications seems low. Makes me think you're either overqualified or underqualified for some of the jobs you've applied for.

Well, I was supposedly underqualified for the jobs I originally applied for. I got a few emails telling me I didn't have enough experience at that role. Then I maybe I just over-corrected. The thing is, I added a supposedly impressive job to a resume that got me semi-regular interviews. I added two decent jobs to a resume that got me regular interviews at business school. On-campus recruiting usually is more likely to get you interviews but I was legit told my resume was good and there were people not getting interviews regardless.

 

[Ori]

Hey, guys, I have a question. I sent a company a cover letter. Long story short, I was in the process of adding an extra paragraph targeting that company and then realized it would be better merged in the first paragraph and copy and pasted it up top. The only problem is that I forgot to delete the paragraph I moved. This was magnified by the fact that I ended the extra paragraph was with a sentence that wasn't finished. So it was very conspicuous. Anyway, I changed it and resent the application. I will also email an alum that works at the company directly, and as part of the email I'll include the updated cover letter. Did I **** up or is this salvageable?

Thanks!

@SnowblindNYR I recommend that someone should look through and read your application content. You`re not writing a book, but it need to be convincing so a company enjoy the thoughts to communicate with you in an interview. However continue to send new applications, because it`s a difficult process and it can be hard competition. And fact is some jobs go through family members at least here in Norway, and nothing others can compete with that for instant even if the job is officially announced in a local news paper, but that is rare circumstances. So maybe let someone in New York who are experience with the application topic to read through your content in an attempt to get more interviews. Perhaps the text is too long or too brief, but talk with your local goverment in NY - and they are hired to help you and some have good expertise in the field.

I can`t help though, because I do not have enough experience in the US related to the job application, nor the topic, but it`s vital that your content and text is well written so the company get a good and a solid first impression which is important. Anyway best of luck.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

@SnowblindNYR I recommend that someone should look through and read your application content. You`re not writing a book, but it need to be convincing so a company enjoy the thoughts to communicate with you in an interview. However continue to send new applications, because it`s a difficult process and it can be hard competition. And fact is some jobs go through family members at least here in Norway, and nothing others can compete with that for instant even if the job is officially announced in a local news paper, but that is rare circumstances. So maybe let someone in New York who are experience with the application topic to read through your content in an attempt to get more interviews. Perhaps the text is too long or too brief, but talk with your local goverment in NY - and they are hired to help you and some have good expertise in the field.

I can`t help though, because I do not have enough experience in the US related to the job application, nor the topic, but it`s vital that your content and text is well written so the company get a good and a solid first impression which is important. Anyway best of luck.

Thanks for the help!

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Thanks for the help!

You don’t need to be specific, but are you in a nepotism riddled now mainly automated field?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

You don’t need to be specific, but are you in a nepotism riddled now mainly automated field?

Not that I know of. Maybe the nepotism part, don't think the automated part.

 

[Greg02]

Reach out to HR and ask. Tell them you'd like to make yourself a better candidate in the future. I can't imagine them not wanting to help you a bit.

Just a heads up, many companies will not give any feedback for liability reasons.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

https://local.theonion.com/recruiter-saw-your-background-in-computer-science-and-t-1830772882

@SnowblindNYR

 

[cozandeffect]

Currently back on the search train so I feel you @SnowblindNYR . I'm at an internship at a sports radio station in Upstate New York that I can continue if I want to but now looking for something full time. It feels like my only options for full-time and paid are New York, LA, and ESPN (though they have nothing available in my field right now). I am not excited to be on this grind.

 

[NCRanger]

Well, I was supposedly underqualified for the jobs I originally applied for. I got a few emails telling me I didn't have enough experience at that role. Then I maybe I just over-corrected. The thing is, I added a supposedly impressive job to a resume that got me semi-regular interviews. I added two decent jobs to a resume that got me regular interviews at business school. On-campus recruiting usually is more likely to get you interviews but I was legit told my resume was good and there were people not getting interviews regardless.

This might be crap advice, but, here goes. You may seriously have to consider relocation to a smaller market for the time being.

That's what I did back in 1998 when I moved to Charlotte. I left working with the NJ Parole Board and didn't have a lot of other experience. Moved to a smaller/growing market and got into IT. Was really a numbers game at that time. Unfortunately, when I wanted something a little bit better, I was shut out of the Charlotte market, and had to move to Raleigh. Then had to move back to Charlotte in 2006 when that job ended. Now, I feel I've "outgrown" the market again. Tons of jobs here that I'm tremendously overqualified for, the jobs I am qualified for are for ridiculously low salaries, and precious few that I could get with what should be my salary range (based on my current company's salary charts.)

 

[Blueblood9]

I'm at 220. The problem is I've only interviewed with 3 companies. On the one hand, it's less painful on the other hand I feel like a sitting duck. I'm not even getting interviews.

And this interview I thought was legit one of the best I've ever had. Mind you, I've never been a great interviewer but I'd like to think that I have SOME self-awareness. I got a form email rejection. It was the next day which is more than I get usually so I can't complain but I really hope I get feedback. I don't know what went wrong. The problem is that if someone had the same exact experience at a competitor I just can't compete with that. The fewer leaps in logic you have to make to hire someone, the more likely it is they'll get hired.

When i was laid off from 2010 to 2013 i got rejected from over 300. I applied all over the place Linkedin, Indeed, monster, directly on the company website, hell i even pounded the pavement and drove and personally handed my resume to over 25 engineering companies. Eventually one of the recruiters i gave my resume to in the beginning of the process called and i ended up with an interview with my dream job I was the 1st to interview and before i left they offered me the job.

Honestly its all a crap shoot and luck. I was more then qualified for all the jobs i applied for still dont know why it took so long to get hired but Ive been here for 5+ yrs love my coworkers, and my job.

Stay with it man dont get discouraged. Eventually something great will come through.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This might be crap advice, but, here goes. You may seriously have to consider relocation to a smaller market for the time being.

That's what I did back in 1998 when I moved to Charlotte. I left working with the NJ Parole Board and didn't have a lot of other experience. Moved to a smaller/growing market and got into IT. Was really a numbers game at that time. Unfortunately, when I wanted something a little bit better, I was shut out of the Charlotte market, and had to move to Raleigh. Then had to move back to Charlotte in 2006 when that job ended. Now, I feel I've "outgrown" the market again. Tons of jobs here that I'm tremendously overqualified for, the jobs I am qualified for are for ridiculously low salaries, and precious few that I could get with what should be my salary range (based on my current company's salary charts.)

Thanks but I'm just really tired of moving. Though I could see getting a job in Pittsburgh for my old boss.

 

[BBKers]

Send me your resume and I will look at it and give you a pointer if I see something. I have hired thousands of people in many types of business in 11 countries including the US where I lived for almost 20 years. PM me and I will give you my private email.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Reach out to HR and ask. Tell them you'd like to make yourself a better candidate in the future. I can't imagine them not wanting to help you a bit.

I can. As an HR Manager and former VP, you're setting yourself up for a lawsuit. Which, is unfortunate. Parents over the last 30 years have done a piss poor job of preparing their kids for the realities of life. No, you can't be whatever you want. Yes, you're going to fail often. Life can be a cruel, miserable bitch at times, learn to deal with it. Instead of parents teaching these lessons to their kids, they left that responsibility up to the school system, which also failed them. As did their university. When they finally make it to the corporate world, it is starkly different from what they expected and managers now have to spend time teaching these kids the life skills that should have been instilled years ago. There is a great video from Simon Sinek on this subject called This is why you don't succeed - Millennial Generation. The purpose of the video is not putting blame on millennials, rather it is putting blame on the people that have failed the millennial generation.

It would be great to be able to give people honest, candid feedback about why they weren't selected. In 2018, that is not an option. Managers are afraid of being labeled and being sued and when those lawsuits happens, it costs jobs.

I will give you a perfect example. A colleague interviewed an extremely well qualified female candidate for a job. She was their top pick at the phone interview stage. This person was aware that the dress code at this company was more on the formal side and still shows up to the interview in a pair of dark jeans with a coat. If he tells her he didn't hire her because she couldn't follow directions and her lack of professional business attire, he is being sued for being sexist - 100% guaranteed. Maybe she just didn't have the wherewithal to realize that she was under dressed. He can't do that - opening up that can of worms put his job, his families sole source of income, and the jobs of others at the organization at risk.

This is the world we live in.

On a side note @SnowblindNYR I've done tons of interview coaching. I would be happy to help you should you be interested in my feedback. Interviews are what get people jobs. Resumes just get you in the door. This is why people who have great resumes but need some interviewing polish have an easy time getting interviews but a hard time actually landing a job. Then after so many rejections, it becomes hard to remain positive as the candidate feels rejection is inevitable, almost to the point of it being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

One last thing, not just for snowblind but for anyone here, if you have questions about interviewing or resumes, please don't hesitate to reach out. Getting a completely unbiased opinion is usually a goo idea. Those who know me can vouch, I will tell you exactly like it is, good, bad, indifferent.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Snowblind, while there is some randomness to the process, 3 interviews in 220 applications seems low. Makes me think you're either overqualified or underqualified for some of the jobs you've applied for.

This is a great point Crease. @SnowblindNYR The fact is, you can't use the same resume each time you apply. When I decided I wanted a new role back in 2016, I had 7 different versions of my resume. All of which were 100% truthful, but each resume highlighted different things that I had accomplished and it was based around what types of jobs I was applying for. I had a resume for Home Health VP roles, Home Health Director/Ops Manager roles, I had one that mostly highlighted my recruiting experience, one that highlighted my employee relations experience, etc...

 

[East Coast Bias]

I cannot stress enough how mass appeal is a bad strategy. If you have a generic resume and you're blasting it all over the place, recruiters are aware. They sort through 100s that look the same. It's not even worth applying if you're just using the same thing throwing it at every job on a company's portal.

Read the job description very carefully. It's written by the business usually. The recruiter is reading it thinking THIS is what I have to find. Your resume should look like a job you're applying to.

*I'm fully aware it's easier to say this while employed. Not trying to be a ****.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I cannot stress enough how mass appeal is a bad strategy. If you have a generic resume and you're blasting it all over the place, recruiters are aware. They sort through 100s that look the same. It's not even worth applying if you're just using the same thing throwing it at every job on a company's portal.

Read the job description very carefully. It's written by the business usually. The recruiter is reading it thinking THIS is what I have to find. Your resume should look like a job you're applying to.

*I'm fully aware it's easier to say this while employed. Not trying to be a ****.

I don't think it can be stressed enough.

The biggest thing I hear is "I have the experience needed" and I say "great, but why doesn't your resume show it?".

Also, your point about recruiters is valid (they are all great points fwiw). Recruiters see a name often enough, they remember it. It won't matter at that point if you changed your resume, they will remember the first 6 times they saw it where it was the same and didn't look remotely close to what was needed for the job.

 

[NCRanger]

I can. As an HR Manager and former VP, you're setting yourself up for a lawsuit. Which, is unfortunate. Parents over the last 30 years have done a piss poor job of preparing their kids for the realities of life. No, you can't be whatever you want. Yes, you're going to fail often. Life can be a cruel, miserable ***** at times, learn to deal with it. Instead of parents teaching these lessons to their kids, they left that responsibility up to the school system, which also failed them. As did their university. When they finally make it to the corporate world, it is starkly different from what they expected and managers now have to spend time teaching these kids the life skills that should have been instilled years ago. There is a great video from Simon Sinek on this subject called This is why you don't succeed - Millennial Generation. The purpose of the video is not putting blame on millennials, rather it is putting blame on the people that have failed the millennial generation.

It would be great to be able to give people honest, candid feedback about why they weren't selected. In 2018, that is not an option. Managers are afraid of being labeled and being sued and when those lawsuits happens, it costs jobs.

I will give you a perfect example. A colleague interviewed an extremely well qualified female candidate for a job. She was their top pick at the phone interview stage. This person was aware that the dress code at this company was more on the formal side and still shows up to the interview in a pair of dark jeans with a coat. If he tells her he didn't hire her because she couldn't follow directions and her lack of professional business attire, he is being sued for being sexist - 100% guaranteed. Maybe she just didn't have the wherewithal to realize that she was under dressed. He can't do that - opening up that can of worms put his job, his families sole source of income, and the jobs of others at the organization at risk.

This is the world we live in.

On a side note @SnowblindNYR I've done tons of interview coaching. I would be happy to help you should you be interested in my feedback. Interviews are what get people jobs. Resumes just get you in the door. This is why people who have great resumes but need some interviewing polish have an easy time getting interviews but a hard time actually landing a job. Then after so many rejections, it becomes hard to remain positive as the candidate feels rejection is inevitable, almost to the point of it being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So true.

When I was interviewing candidates for an open role a few years ago, I made a suggestion not to hire someone based on something that is probably against the law, but if hired, this person could not have been able to reliably be here at a legitimate start time, or even be available. Not the candidate's fault, but where this person lived in relation to the job site made it impossible for this person. You can't tell someone that never ending construction leading to a road being shut due to wrecks at least once a week is one of the reasons said person was passed over.

As for me -- I interview extremely well. I think it comes from tons of experience and having been on the other side of the table. I usually get to the final round. My problem is that my resume is too detailed and I've done too much. But simplifying it, I take out too many necessary details that are needed. I am the true jack of all trades, master of none. If I am lucky enough to crack the door, like I said, I get to the final round, but lose out to someone who has more experience in the role I'm interviewing for.

 

[Gardner McKay]

So true.

When I was interviewing candidates for an open role a few years ago, I made a suggestion not to hire someone based on something that is probably against the law, but if hired, this person could not have been able to reliably be here at a legitimate start time, or even be available. Not the candidate's fault, but where this person lived in relation to the job site made it impossible for this person. You can't tell someone that never ending construction leading to a road being shut due to wrecks at least once a week is one of the reasons said person was passed over.

As for me -- I interview extremely well. I think it comes from tons of experience and having been on the other side of the table. I usually get to the final round. My problem is that my resume is too detailed and I've done too much. But simplifying it, I take out too many necessary details that are needed. I am the true jack of all trades, master of none. If I am lucky enough to crack the door, like I said, I get to the final round, but lose out to someone who has more experience in the role I'm interviewing for.

As overpopulated as so many cities are, it is a VERY legitimate concern. Heck, when I moved, my boss was concerned. I went from living 8 miles away to 35+ miles away, having to plow through Atlanta traffic during rush hour. I work (depending on the day) 9-12 hours a day and have a 75-90 minute commute, each way.

Your problem is probably the toughest one to coach through because it really isn't about improving the resume or your interviewing skills. At this point it becomes how you sell yourself and being able to overcome their objections. The final question I would ask in situations such as that is "what reservations do you have about me as a candidate". Many times managers will be open with you with you as you catch them off guard with that question. Most importantly it gives you the ability to CLOSE the interview by overcoming whatever objections they had. They don't leave the interview concerned about anything. They leave with the impression of you as a potentially flawless candidate.