OT: Career advice Part II

[Machinehead]

If you got a 17 year old to do ANYTHING, while not paying them, sounds to me like an infinity efficiency/output improvement metric

You're telling me!

That's the challenge with the resume working in education, it's hard to put it into numbers because you're not selling the product. We have people that sell the product, but I sort of am the product.

I work in an automotive college that's part trade school, part academic. I run the department responsible for the academic side. As far as cars go, not a f***in clue.

So I can say things like I increased admissions in our associate degree program by x% or I increased student success rate by x% on their exams. So for my current role as a program manager, I have a few bullets. Teal graded that section highly.

For my previous role as strictly a teacher/advisor/guru (I did a few things when I was an adjunct), Teal was all like "make an actionable statement with numbers" and I'm like

They showed up and I lectured. They had a problem and I solved it. It wasn't KPI-centered at all.

 

[Machinehead]

Today we got our updated E-textbooks from whatever the f*** auto company that say "drain the fuel injector" or whatever Chinese is written in there.

I had to take those and turn them into a syllabus for 23 courses based on the tasks in the book.

That's like a typical day-to-day operation.

So I do like, some of the car stuff, indirectly, but it's all related to the college aspect. I make syllabi, register people for exams, run the scholarship program. It's a million little things and I'm sort of responsible for all "traditional" aspects of this non-traditional school.

It's a cool job but there's certain people upstairs I'm not getting along with and also the benefits stink.

 

[majordomo]

No one fully tells the truth in resumes or interviews. You embellish, they even tell you this in school.

Oddly enough, I have never "lied" or "embellished" my resume.....guess it's an old-school thing.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Oddly enough, I have never "lied" or "embellished" my resume.....guess it's an old-school thing.

Maybe, but I remember when I was recruiting in undergrad they said never lie but embellish AT the school. You're supposed to make your resume sound good even if something is mundane.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

So I applied for a role that I liked AND sent the hiring manager a resume with a BLATANT error and now I can't find a way to withdraw and I'm kicking myself. I'm so pissed.

 

[Kane One]

So I applied for a role that I liked AND sent the hiring manager a resume with a BLATANT error and now I can't find a way to withdraw and I'm kicking myself. I'm so pissed.

Yeah that sucks man. Since you already think that might blow it, you might as well write back and make a joke along the lines of “I have strong attention to detail 90% of the time.”

 

[Kane One]

I once applied to a role at Teal using a resume drafted by Teal. Didn’t get an interview lol.

But their software is questionable. Every recommendation they give is to make up some vague number like “I increased productivity by 69%.” Only give specific numbers if you can actually explain how you calculated it.

 

[Profet]

Re: embellishment.

It's always been my prerogative that you can put anything in a resume that you can learn/figure out in two weeks.

I once got a job writing dotnet before I ever wrote a single line of C#.

Let hiring managers tell you that you aren't qualified. Don't do their jobs for them. Your resume gets your foot in the door. Don't cut yourself off at the knees because everyone else is embellishing and you aren't.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Re: embellishment.

It's always been my prerogative that you can put anything in a resume that you can learn/figure out in two weeks.

I once got a job writing dotnet before I ever wrote a single line of C#.

Let hiring managers tell you that you aren't qualified. Don't do their jobs for them. Your resume gets your foot in the door. Don't cut yourself off at the knees because everyone else is embellishing and you aren't.

Exactly, I once had a job where a major part of the job was adding new data sets (also known as copy and pasting) and refreshing pivot tables (also known as hitting the refresh button). If I were completely honest with no embellishment that's what I would put on the resume. The reports were set up a while back and even if I set them up they were super basic. Instead I talked about comparing media spend to competitors which was the main function of the report. But honestly it sounded way more sophisticated than what I actually did. It was technically an embellishment.

 

[Kane One]

Re: embellishment.

It's always been my prerogative that you can put anything in a resume that you can learn/figure out in two weeks.

I once got a job writing dotnet before I ever wrote a single line of C#.

Let hiring managers tell you that you aren't qualified. Don't do their jobs for them. Your resume gets your foot in the door. Don't cut yourself off at the knees because everyone else is embellishing and you aren't.

Eh, software engineers are expected to be able to learn a new language with somewhat ease. I never let not knowing a specific language hold someone or myself back from a role.

 

[Profet]

Eh, software engineers are expected to be able to learn a new language with somewhat ease. I never let not knowing a specific language hold someone or myself back from a role.

This is what I'm saying. If someone doesn't embellish their resume, they probably don't get through whatever keyword resume search is being used. Don't let your non-embellished resume hold you back.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This is what I'm saying. If someone doesn't embellish their resume, they probably don't get through whatever keyword resume search is being used. Don't let your non-embellished resume hold you back.

But why ruin a good opportunity to virtue signal?

 

[mas0764]

Today we got our updated E-textbooks from whatever the f*** auto company that say "drain the fuel injector" or whatever Chinese is written in there.

I had to take those and turn them into a syllabus for 23 courses based on the tasks in the book.

That's like a typical day-to-day operation.

So I do like, some of the car stuff, indirectly, but it's all related to the college aspect. I make syllabi, register people for exams, run the scholarship program. It's a million little things and I'm sort of responsible for all "traditional" aspects of this non-traditional school.

It's a cool job but there's certain people upstairs I'm not getting along with and also the benefits stink.

Hah, this is the job my wife got about 6 months ago after transitioning from being a teacher. Program manager at a university.

Switch to a bigger school, the benefits are great.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

But why ruin a good opportunity to virtue signal?

In this day and age you have to play the game, otherwise you're doing things the "right way" out of spite of modern day hiring practices at a detriment to yourself. You have to use those keywords that the software or whatever program these companies use looks for, otherwise they just automatically deny you for not using those keywords before a real person even knows your application exists. The face-to-face interview/s are where you make your actual impression on the employer once you have your foot in the door.

Re: Embellishment, I don't think it's so much virtue signaling as it is presenting yourself in the best light. It's the same as the dating world. You want to talk up your good points as much as you can and make them look better/more impactful than they may actually be. I think it speaks more to your potential/capabilities than what the results actually were.

Tying that into the important keywords, it sucks from an incoming employee's POV, but from the employer's POV it's impossible to sift through however many hundreds or thousands of applicants, some of which have literally no business applying for a particular job, with a consistently high degree of attention given to each application. The goal is to make it so you eventually talk to a human. Once you actually get to sit with someone is where you can add context to things, explain things in more detail, whatever.

 

[Machinehead]

Hah, this is the job my wife got about 6 months ago after transitioning from being a teacher. Program manager at a university.

Switch to a bigger school, the benefits are great.

I'm corresponding with NYU. They're union. The health insurance is like a dime per month.

 

[Kane One]

This is what I'm saying. If someone doesn't embellish their resume, they probably don't get through whatever keyword resume search is being used. Don't let your non-embellished resume hold you back.

There’s a difference between lying and embellishing. I wouldn’t put down that I have experience with a specific language if I’ve never used it. I’d put it down even if I’ve used it once.

Saying that you got a C# role even though you never used it doesn’t mean you got it because you embellished. You got it because you’re an experienced software engineer.

My current role is (unfortunately) Java even though I haven’t used it since college, and my last role was C# for almost 7 years. Interviews also very rarely care about what languages you’ve used, unless they REALLY want someone who knows the very specific ins and outs of a language.

 

[NCRanger]

I go back to a regular w-2 job on Tuesday. Small start-up that loves my experience and abilities.

My business never got off the ground. Unfortunately, too many roadblocks, bad luck, bad timing, and bad decisions doomed it from the start. Some things were not disclosed or truthfully stated. Working 55 hours a week, grinding away with $0 to show for it for weeks on end was not healthy. $10k in income over 14 months is completely unsustainable, and when I started, we were debt free save for a mortgage, now, it's pretty ugly.

I decided to toss in the towel in May. I applied to at least 200 jobs through multiple sites between May and July. NOTHING.

One day, at the beach of all places (only there because my wife needed a break from working 60 hours a week to try to replace the income), a recruiter called me out of the blue. Interview was set up, and after a few rounds - I was hired. Contract to start. More money than I've ever made, but that's relative now in this inflationary period.

I really don't care that it's in the office five days a week to start. I'm just ready to be productive.

 

[LokiDog]

So my new role is sales with a national firm that does warehousing solutions and or small scale pallet racking applications. We sell (and buy - we do liquidations) everything from racking to fans, forklifts to conveyors, install LED lights, handle the engineering and permitting, etc.

As most of you know about my financial struggles and my role is largely commission based PLEASE let me know if:

You have rack/storage needs of any size
You are lending to a client who will be opening distribution centers or large warehouses
You are taking a client who had large warehouses to bankruptcy court and liquidating their assets

I can provide much more specifics if it sounds like we may even be adjacent to a need you have.

 

[Chytilmania]

Entering the management phase of my career, which has been fun but also very challenging. Doing the work is easy. Getting others to do the work and do it well is harder, at least for me.

I hate management work. If I decide to grow and get a few employees I will need to hire a manager along with them. I'd be terrible and have no interest.

 

[LokiDog]

I hate management work. If I decide to grow and get a few employees I will need to hire a manager along with them. I'd be terrible and have no interest.

I’m best at management roles because of my military time, and I guess my personality. I organize, delegate, time manage, etc. very naturally. My problem is my resume is light on the civilian side and you can’t get to a management position without working your way up the ladder, but I also can’t afford to be in an entry level position at this stage of my life, so I basically have to crush it in sales and hope that it can eventually lead to a management role above a sales team. I’m good at sales as well, but I don’t enjoy it because I don’t like pushing for the deal that isn’t there. I get a lot of deals naturally by being personable and in the right place at the right time. I can close you, but I don’t like when I’m supposed to push to close people when the fit/need isn’t naturally there. I only like sales in a consultative, partner fashion… in a pushy, quota driven environment it isn’t for me.

 

[CasusBelli]

Re: embellishment.

It's always been my prerogative that you can put anything in a resume that you can learn/figure out in two weeks.

I once got a job writing dotnet before I ever wrote a single line of C#.

Let hiring managers tell you that you aren't qualified. Don't do their jobs for them. Your resume gets your foot in the door. Don't cut yourself off at the knees because everyone else is embellishing and you aren't.

Be careful with that. In smaller industries, where people know each other, you don’t want to develop a “reputation.” I also grill people on every little point in their resume — until they admit they don’t know something. It’s a test of intellectual integrity and humility. If they try to sneak something by, I caution people at other firms when they come across this guy (if he applies here, he likely applies there), and vice versa.

 

[Profet]

Be careful with that. In smaller industries, where people know each other, you don’t want to develop a “reputation.” I also grill people on every little point in their resume — until they admit they don’t know something. It’s a test of intellectual integrity and humility. If they try to sneak something by, I caution people at other firms when they come across this guy (if he applies here, he likely applies there), and vice versa.

Wait wait wait...

Two sides of this:

I don't lie or misrepresent myself in interviews. And I do not suggest this. There really is no point. You're just wasting everyone's time. But these days you may as well not apply for positions if you don't have every keyword requirement necessary. A human won't even look at it. I want to get my foot in the door. I'm terrible dealing with people. But, I'm pretty confident in my abilities within my field. Once I get an interview, I can usually get an offer.

Other side:
I've done my share of being at the whiteboard for interviews. I've been grilled on math problems, actual production problems, and even had an interviewer ask me to write 100% syntactically correct code at a whiteboard (this is dumb).

I don't take those jobs. They are never fun places to be for long.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I’m best at management roles because of my military time, and I guess my personality. I organize, delegate, time manage, etc. very naturally. My problem is my resume is light on the civilian side and you can’t get to a management position without working your way up the ladder, but I also can’t afford to be in an entry level position at this stage of my life, so I basically have to crush it in sales and hope that it can eventually lead to a management role above a sales team. I’m good at sales as well, but I don’t enjoy it because I don’t like pushing for the deal that isn’t there. I get a lot of deals naturally by being personable and in the right place at the right time. I can close you, but I don’t like when I’m supposed to push to close people when the fit/need isn’t naturally there. I only like sales in a consultative, partner fashion… in a pushy, quota driven environment it isn’t for me.

I feel like you just described sales in 2024 for a legit organization. A reputable place in 2024 won't be Wolf of Wall Street.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Be careful with that. In smaller industries, where people know each other, you don’t want to develop a “reputation.” I also grill people on every little point in their resume — until they admit they don’t know something. It’s a test of intellectual integrity and humility. If they try to sneak something by, I caution people at other firms when they come across this guy (if he applies here, he likely applies there), and vice versa.

I know a lot of people are very high and mighty about this, but there is literally no one that doesn't embellish on their resume/interviews in certain fields. Maybe if you're an engineer or in some super quant field like I believe you are where embellishment ends up a lie. But everyone has done some mundane shit like I've previously mentioned and dressed it up to sound amazing. That's not a lie, that's embellishment.

 

[CasusBelli]

I know a lot of people are very high and mighty about this, but there is literally no one that doesn't embellish on their resume/interviews in certain fields. Maybe if you're an engineer or in some super quant field like I believe you are where embellishment ends up a lie. But everyone has done some mundane shit like I've previously mentioned and dressed it up to sound amazing. That's not a lie, that's embellishment.

Fair enough — I’m actually an energy markets quant, and I interview candidates for other quant positions. It’s just disappointing (sometimes infuriating) when someone claims to have accomplished X and, it turns out, only managed someone who did (for example) or that they have hands on experience with stochastic calculus … 10 years earlier. Funny enough, I had a guy walk out mid interview, saying “this isn’t a good fit” after I caught him lying about his knowledge of options markets: you need to know more than the definition of an option to make such a claim.