OT: Career advice Part II

[SnowblindNYR]

Truth. About 90% of the managers I have interviewed pass off the work and skills of their analysts as their own.

I feel like a lot of people think that the work of the analyst is somehow more important and/or harder than the work of the manager. To me it's almost a political argument. But it doesn't really correspond with reality. The higher up you go the more of a command of the company you have. That to me is way more important and way harder than making formulas in excel. And I think that's one of my biggest issues. I can make formulas in excel with the best of them. But understanding higher level the org and how those excel formulas relate to real life is really not my strong suit. This is why I think I'm an analyst and nothing more. This is where my imposter syndrome kicks in, am I just a spreadsheet monkey or do I actually have a brain?

 

[Chytilmania]

I feel like a lot of people think that the work of the analyst is somehow more important and/or harder than the work of the manager. To me it's almost a political argument. But it doesn't really correspond with reality. The higher up you go the more of a command of the company you have. That to me is way more important and way harder than making formulas in excel. And I think that's one of my biggest issues. I can make formulas in excel with the best of them. But understanding higher level the org and how those excel formulas relate to real life is really not my strong suit. This is why I think I'm an analyst and nothing more. This is where my imposter syndrome kicks in, am I just a spreadsheet monkey or do I actually have a brain?

The book E-Myth is great.

You have the Technician, the Manager and the Entrepreneur/Visionary. You sound like a Technician. You can lean into that and try to become one of the best in your company. Hopefully that comes with a good salary and security. But sounds like you’ll be capped at your growth.

Or you can get out of your comfort zone and learn how these formulas relate to real life.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The book E-Myth is great.

You have the Technician, the Manager and the Entrepreneur/Visionary. You sound like a Technician. You can lean into that and try to become one of the best in your company. Hopefully that comes with a good salary and security. But sounds like you’ll be capped at your growth.

Or you can get out of your comfort zone and learn how these formulas relate to real life.

My problem I'm somewhere in the middle of technicians and big picture guy. Not big picture enough to be a big picture but and not technical enough for a technical guy. I don't know if I would be able to be a big picture guy if put in that position though.

 

[aufheben]

This is financial advice, not career advice, but who cares. I have money saved up and I feel like I need to do something adult with it. I can’t understand the purpose of a savings account.

 

[Crease]

This is financial advice, not career advice, but who cares. I have money saved up and I feel like I need to do something adult with it. I can’t understand the purpose of a savings account.

Leave 3-6 months expenses in a savings account and invest the rest in an index fund. Watch it grow, and sell some shares when you need to raise cash to buy a house, etc.

 

[aufheben]

Leave 3-6 months expenses in a savings account and invest the rest in an index fund. Watch it grow, and sell some shares when you need to raise cash to buy a house, etc.

I’ll have to do some research; no idea how to invest. Is there like an app? This is definitely a subject I’ll need explained to me like I’m five. Thanks @Crease

 

[Gardner McKay]

I’ll have to do some research; no idea how to invest. Is there like an app? This is definitely a subject I’ll need explained to me like I’m five. Thanks @Crease

Look at opening a Fidelity account. There are a number of funds that average an 8-10% dividend. Auto-reinvest and watch magic happen.

 

[frozenrubber]

Look at opening a Fidelity account. There are a number of funds that average an 8-10% dividend. Auto-reinvest and watch magic happen.

Investment choice based on dividends is a fools errand.

For the OP, a simple structure is:

Any high interest debt, pay it off (this does not apply to low rate mortgages).

Auto-matching. If you have a company with a 401k with any company contributions, max that out. Free money is free money.

Emergency Fund: People typically have too much set aside here. If you have a stable job or no clear health issues, 3 months is typically fine. If you are a freelancer, bump it out to 6months (or more if you typically have gaps in employment).

The emergency fund does need to be in cash. If you carry 1-2 months expenses in checking, you can easily offload the rest into something that is earning a return. The best would be US Treasury Bills. Currently 1 month bills earning ~5.4% and 2 month 5.42%. You can set these to auto reinvest. The kicker why you choose US Treasury Bills over a HYSA (high yield savings account) is the return will be higher and US Treasuries are exempt from state/local income tax.

The rest you 'index'. Indexing is not picking investments, but investing in larger market. The best for a no-touch investment is an entire market index fund. The key is picking one that isn't narrowly targeted and has low fees (expense ratio). Best example would be VTI (many other equivalents) but it is a whole market ETF, where it is a representation of the entire US-based stock market. It will throw off a dividend 4 times a year, but just keep re-investing the proceeds and top this up when you have some extra cash.

Lastly, there are many good low-cost/free brokerages available. Unsure of what balances you will be bringing in at the beginning, but many also have new account sign-up bonuses. So you may net a few hundred (few Ranger tickets) in just signing up to begin the above. There are even referral bonuses you can stack on top of here, but I'm not listing any as to not appear to have any self-serving motives.

Happy to post specific links/steps if any of the above is confusing.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Investment choice based on dividends is a fools errand.

For the OP, a simple structure is:

Any high interest debt, pay it off (this does not apply to low rate mortgages).

Auto-matching. If you have a company with a 401k with any company contributions, max that out. Free money is free money.

Emergency Fund: People typically have too much set aside here. If you have a stable job or no clear health issues, 3 months is typically fine. If you are a freelancer, bump it out to 6months (or more if you typically have gaps in employment).

The emergency fund does need to be in cash. If you carry 1-2 months expenses in checking, you can easily offload the rest into something that is earning a return. The best would be US Treasury Bills. Currently 1 month bills earning ~5.4% and 2 month 5.42%. You can set these to auto reinvest. The kicker why you choose US Treasury Bills over a HYSA (high yield savings account) is the return will be higher and US Treasuries are exempt from state/local income tax.

The rest you 'index'. Indexing is not picking investments, but investing in larger market. The best for a no-touch investment is an entire market index fund. The key is picking one that isn't narrowly targeted and has low fees (expense ratio). Best example would be VTI (many other equivalents) but it is a whole market ETF, where it is a representation of the entire US-based stock market. It will throw off a dividend 4 times a year, but just keep re-investing the proceeds and top this up when you have some extra cash.

Lastly, there are many good low-cost/free brokerages available. Unsure of what balances you will be bringing in at the beginning, but many also have new account sign-up bonuses. So you may net a few hundred (few Ranger tickets) in just signing up to begin the above. There are even referral bonuses you can stack on top of here, but I'm not listing any as to not appear to have any self-serving motives.

Happy to post specific links/steps if any of the above is confusing.

Yeah... I'm gonna have to disagree. I'm not suggesting picking a fund based on dividend, rather there are a number of fantastic funds that offer a good dividend. Finding a solid fund like Gabelli and reinvesting dividends can lead to a nice portfolio.

I do absolutely agree with the index fund strategy as well, but rather VTSAX or something rather than VTI.

Not sure if you are familiar with Tae Kim, the Financial Tortoise, but he does a wonderful job of explaining investing, how to access index funds, etc. @aufheben

The video is from 2022 but the explanation and material is still very relevant. He has tons of recent videos on specifics funds and strategies once you understand the basics.

 

[frozenrubber]

Yeah... I'm gonna have to disagree. I'm not suggesting picking a fund based on dividend, rather there are a number of fantastic funds that offer a good dividend. Finding a solid fund like Gabelli and reinvesting dividends can lead to a nice portfolio.

I do absolutely agree with the index fund strategy as well, but rather VTSAX or something rather than VTI.

Not sure if you are familiar with Tae Kim, the Financial Tortoise, but he does a wonderful job of explaining investing, how to access index funds, etc. @aufheben

The video is from 2022 but the explanation and material is still very relevant. He has tons of recent videos on specifics funds and strategies once you understand the basics.

We can get wonky explaining the tax implications and actual historical returns and happy to take off thread but most funds have dividends, but there are some people who pick BY dividend (which is a bad strategy) Dividends are just one way that investments accrue in value. VTI/VTSAX current dividend yield is ~1.6-1.8% and that’s fine as the fund performs well in multiple ways. Some people pick by dividend yield (as you alluded to in your post of 8-10% and that is not a sound strategy for most investors)

FYI, VTSAX is EXACTLY the same as VTI, just the mutual fund version with a slightly more expensive expense ratio. I listed VTI as more brokerages have it, VTI is marginally cheaper, and doesn’t require 3k to start (as VTSAX is the admiral class variety)

 

[aufheben]

Investment choice based on dividends is a fools errand.

For the OP, a simple structure is:

Any high interest debt, pay it off (this does not apply to low rate mortgages).

Auto-matching. If you have a company with a 401k with any company contributions, max that out. Free money is free money.

Emergency Fund: People typically have too much set aside here. If you have a stable job or no clear health issues, 3 months is typically fine. If you are a freelancer, bump it out to 6months (or more if you typically have gaps in employment).

The emergency fund does need to be in cash. If you carry 1-2 months expenses in checking, you can easily offload the rest into something that is earning a return. The best would be US Treasury Bills. Currently 1 month bills earning ~5.4% and 2 month 5.42%. You can set these to auto reinvest. The kicker why you choose US Treasury Bills over a HYSA (high yield savings account) is the return will be higher and US Treasuries are exempt from state/local income tax.

The rest you 'index'. Indexing is not picking investments, but investing in larger market. The best for a no-touch investment is an entire market index fund. The key is picking one that isn't narrowly targeted and has low fees (expense ratio). Best example would be VTI (many other equivalents) but it is a whole market ETF, where it is a representation of the entire US-based stock market. It will throw off a dividend 4 times a year, but just keep re-investing the proceeds and top this up when you have some extra cash.

Lastly, there are many good low-cost/free brokerages available. Unsure of what balances you will be bringing in at the beginning, but many also have new account sign-up bonuses. So you may net a few hundred (few Ranger tickets) in just signing up to begin the above. There are even referral bonuses you can stack on top of here, but I'm not listing any as to not appear to have any self-serving motives.

Happy to post specific links/steps if any of the above is confusing.

You’d have to explain it like I’m five.

Or just the steps to do the index fund and I’ll figure out the details as I go along.

 

[Gardner McKay]

We can get wonky explaining the tax implications and actual historical returns and happy to take off thread but most funds have dividends, but there are some people who pick BY dividend (which is a bad strategy) Dividends are just one way that investments accrue in value.

FYI, VTSAX EXACTLY the same as VTI, just the mutual fund version with a slightly more expensive expense ratio. I listed VTI as more brokerages have it, and marginally cheaper, and doesn’t require 3k to start (as VTSAX is the admiral class variety)

I could not agree more on the dividend point and that is absolutely not what I was suggesting. Rereading my previous post, I can see how it was a bit ambiguous.

I am aware that they are the same. I tend to go for mutual funds as I don't really need any of the extras that come with the ETF and I was under the impression that the VTI doesn't allow auto-investing due to a lack fractional share purchasing? Although if there are larger benefits to the ETF that I am missing, I would love to hear your thoughts!

Edit: I think it is important for me to clarify that I don't typically make lots of moves. I'm much more on the buy and hold side.

 

[frozenrubber]

I could not agree more on the dividend point and that is absolutely not what I was suggesting. Rereading my previous post, I can see how it was a bit ambiguous.

I am aware that they are the same. I tend to go for mutual funds as I don't really need any of the extras that come with the ETF and I was under the impression that the VTI doesn't allow auto-investing due to a lack fractional share purchasing? Although if there are larger benefits to the ETF that I am missing, I would love to hear your thoughts!

One shouldn't lose sleep in comparing VTI to VTSAX, both are ideal for buy & hold, but there are a few advantages.

Allowing fractional shares is down to the brokerage. Many offer fractional share purchases of VTI (strangely, the one outlier is at Vanguard, weird). In terms of 'auto-investing', I'm guessing you are referring to fixed contributions (ex. making a purchase once a month) opposed to auto re-investment of dividends (which is just a setting at your brokerage, so when you get a dividend, you can configure to automatically re-invest and you'll be awarded fractions of share). So if you purchase VTI instead of auto investing 1k a month on the 15th of VTSAX, you'll need to pop into your brokerage account and make a 1k purchase.

Mutual funds (VTSAX) are nice and easy as you just enter a purchase amount and your purchase price is whatever the end of day price is. The ETF (VTI) is whatever the price is at the moment in the trading day, but no real slippage as the fund is so heavily traded. So if you think the market if overreacting to something mid-day and may come to their senses in an hour or so, you might be able to purchase VTI cheaper than what VTSAX settles at the end of the day. Lastly, if you have your account at Vanguard, you can also convert VTSAX to VTI automatically without a taxable event (and your purchase acquisition history carries over).

The main difference is if you are paying ANY fee to purchase VTSAX. It's free to purchase at Vanguard, JPMorgan, etc, but at Interactive Brokers, there is a fee. If there is a fee to purchase at your brokerage, FULL STOP, you should be purchasing the ETF equivalent (VTI).

The expense ratio for VTI is less (a WHOLE 1 BPS, insignificant, but STILL less). But if the buyer doesn't have 3k (use to be 10k) for VTSAX, VTI is an easier entry.

VTI: 0.03%
VTSAX: 0.04% (min initial investment 3k)
VTSMX: 0.14% (no min investment / same as VTSAX)

But the best part of VTI vs. VTSAX, PORTABILITY! Every low cost/free brokerage allows trading it. It means you can transfer your brokerage holdings as many times as you want. Almost every brokerage runs new customer transfer bonuses. You can move your holdings yearly to a different brokerage and be paid $1+k/yr in doing so. $1k+ for 15 mins of effort can't be beat.

Now to start some dinosaur instruction drawings for @aufheben

 

[Gardner McKay]

One shouldn't lose sleep in comparing VTI to VTSAX, both are ideal for buy & hold, but there are a few advantages.

Allowing fractional shares is down to the brokerage. Many offer fractional share purchases of VTI (strangely, the one outlier is at Vanguard, weird). In terms of 'auto-investing', I'm guessing you are referring to fixed contributions (ex. making a purchase once a month) opposed to auto re-investment of dividends (which is just a setting at your brokerage, so when you get a dividend, you can configure to automatically re-invest and you'll be awarded fractions of share). So if you purchase VTI instead of auto investing 1k a month on the 15th of VTSAX, you'll need to pop into your brokerage account and make a 1k purchase.

Mutual funds (VTSAX) are nice and easy as you just enter a purchase amount and your purchase price is whatever the end of day price is. The ETF (VTI) is whatever the price is at the moment in the trading day, but no real slippage as the fund is so heavily traded. So if you think the market if overreacting to something mid-day and may come to their senses in an hour or so, you might be able to purchase VTI cheaper than what VTSAX settles at the end of the day. Lastly, if you have your account at Vanguard, you can also convert VTSAX to VTI automatically without a taxable event (and your purchase acquisition history carries over).

The main difference is if you are paying ANY fee to purchase VTSAX. It's free to purchase at Vanguard, JPMorgan, etc, but at Interactive Brokers, there is a fee. If there is a fee to purchase at your brokerage, FULL STOP, you should be purchasing the ETF equivalent (VTI).

The expense ratio for VTI is less (a WHOLE 1 BPS, insignificant, but STILL less). But if the buyer doesn't have 3k (use to be 10k) for VTSAX, VTI is an easier entry.

VTI: 0.03%
VTSAX: 0.04% (min initial investment 3k)
VTSMX: 0.14% (no min investment / same as VTSAX)

But the best part of VTI vs. VTSAX, PORTABILITY! Every low cost/free brokerage allows trading it. It means you can transfer your brokerage holdings as many times as you want. Almost every brokerage runs new customer transfer bonuses. You can move your holdings yearly to a different brokerage and be paid $1+k/yr in doing so. $1k+ for 15 mins of effort can't be beat.

Now to start some dinosaur instruction drawings for @aufheben

That is super helpful and some of this is way beyond the knowledge I had.

Thank you!!

 

[kovazub94]

That bit about grinding like Callahn was pretty much how I've been. I've been in higher education for 9 years. Early on, the hard work got me opportunities. Went from part-time to full-time, and then working for a different program. Been a bit more of a point person the last couple years.

The problem I found is that comfort leads to that plateau...that, or management lacking your best interest at heart. I don't really get as many opportunities now because I still work my ass off and don't complain. Most managers won't want to lose that. My last departmental shift was one my old supervisor tried to block because he didn't want me to go.

But now, it's 4 years down the line and the opportunities to move up aren't really there. My bosses give me small opportunities to do different things and they use me as a problem-solver as lot. There's trust in me, but it's not really creating opportunities for me either, if that makes sense. Education's in a rough spot because post-pandemic enrollment has been down, but that's not the entirety of it, either.

At this point, though, I'm asking questions, making the most of opportunities, and trying to learn more to try to get myself out there a bit more, which isn't usually my thing as a huge introvert.

At this point, my choice is either stick it out with the trust an opportunity may pop up or take an assistant director or supervisory position for the same pay elsewhere. ...Or change industries, which has its appeal as well, but I'd probably need to get back to school to actually shift to something else.

Go on interviews - look for opportunities that provide runway for potential growth (and negotiate pay increase in your new role). Even if it doesn't workout right away - it's a good practice.

 

[sbjnyc]

This is financial advice, not career advice, but who cares. I have money saved up and I feel like I need to do something adult with it. I can’t understand the purpose of a savings account.

Risk-free savings accounts and similar types of investments pay over 5% interest currently. The party will be over soon.

Leave 3-6 months expenses in a savings account and invest the rest in an index fund. Watch it grow, and sell some shares when you need to raise cash to buy a house, etc.

I know emergency fund plus index funds is the standard boglehead advice but I am not a fan of index funds since their returns are driven by a small handful of companies with the rest being mediocre or sucking, making them tremendously overvalued by being included in the index.

 

[kovazub94]

If you're still pretty young - you can take more risk than if you're over 50 for example. In either case - diversify!

 

[Charlie Conway]

Go on interviews - look for opportunities that provide runway for potential growth (and negotiate pay increase in your new role). Even if it doesn't workout right away - it's a good practice.

For sure. I've been looking into it, but my managers have been a bit funny at times when I've mentioned looking around, so getting those references has been a bit tricky. Been building contacts outside of my immediate work line to have them to refer to.

Also been looking into marketing and copyediting...just sort of finding the way in without a massive pay cut is the tricky part at the moment.

 

[kovazub94]

For sure. I've been looking into it, but my managers have been a bit funny at times when I've mentioned looking around, so getting those references has been a bit tricky. Been building contacts outside of my immediate work line to have them to refer to.

Also been looking into marketing and copyediting...just sort of finding the way in without a massive pay cut is the tricky part at the moment.

I'm trying to find a way to supplement my income from a fulltime job with something I could spent about 10 hour per week so an extra 1-2 hours per day that I can do from home / at my computer.

 

[Charlie Conway]

I'm trying to find a way to supplement my income from a fulltime job with something I could spent about 10 hour per week so an extra 1-2 hours per day that I can do from home / at my computer.

There's Data Annotation and the like, but I didn't feel that it paid enough to be worth my while.

UserTesting used to be pretty good, but you'd spend so much time going through screenings that the $5 or $10 you made for the 10 minute video basically worked to $7 or less an hour.

 

[CasusBelli]

This is financial advice, not career advice, but who cares. I have money saved up and I feel like I need to do something adult with it. I can’t understand the purpose of a savings account.

I used to dabble in everything from single-names to indices and derivatives on them. While rates were dreadfully low, I did well with indices and a few utility-like (i.e., low-volatility with reasonable dividend) stocks. Now, rates are much higher, so I've gone into T-bills (for the first time). Ultimately, though, I've found that the S&P 500 (VOO) and tech-heavy ETFs (especially QQQ) yield the best returns over the long run. And stay away from derivatives, unless you trade for an institution and can trade large blocks at once, with the latest (borderline inside) information.

Keep it simple. Indices win.

I've been in financial markets for 15 years, from market risk and credit risk to commodities derivatives, so I'm happy to provide further advice if you're so inclined.

 

[SickNice]

I think sometimes I have too much respect for others' abilities and not enough for my own.

Snow, your posts in this thread have consistently featured a lack of belief in yourself. Imposter syndrome is definitely real, but there were posts a year or few ago suggesting that it might be beneficial to talk to a physician or clinical psychologist (I made one of those posts). I really would consider it as you having basically nothing to lose.

On mentoring, it can be extraordinarily valuable because it's effective way to learn about the things you either can't get in a classroom or are very specific / contextualized to where you work. It's also something most people, certainly good or successful ones, enjoy and value doing. I'm sure people have had success like the one poster on paying people, but you can just as easily find someone you work with and organically foster that relationship. That's how most of it happens at larger companies anyways.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Snow, your posts in this thread have consistently featured a lack of belief in yourself. Imposter syndrome is definitely real, but there were posts a year or few ago suggesting that it might be beneficial to talk to a physician or clinical psychologist (I made one of those posts). I really would consider it as you having basically nothing to lose.

On mentoring, it can be extraordinarily valuable because it's effective way to learn about the things you either can't get in a classroom or are very specific / contextualized to where you work. It's also something most people, certainly good or successful ones, enjoy and value doing. I'm sure people have had success like the one poster on paying people, but you can just as easily find someone you work with and organically foster that relationship. That's how most of it happens at larger companies anyways.

My therapist referred me to another therapist and I might work with that one on this. I think I had two jobs where I thought I was hot shit and everywhere else I just thought I was shit. Never in between.

 

[aufheben]

I used to dabble in everything from single-names to indices and derivatives on them. While rates were dreadfully low, I did well with indices and a few utility-like (i.e., low-volatility with reasonable dividend) stocks. Now, rates are much higher, so I've gone into T-bills (for the first time). Ultimately, though, I've found that the S&P 500 (VOO) and tech-heavy ETFs (especially QQQ) yield the best returns over the long run. And stay away from derivatives, unless you trade for an institution and can trade large blocks at once, with the latest (borderline inside) information.

Keep it simple. Indices win.

I've been in financial markets for 15 years, from market risk and credit risk to commodities derivatives, so I'm happy to provide further advice if you're so inclined.

I have no idea what any of these words mean.

 

[Chytilmania]

I used to dabble in everything from single-names to indices and derivatives on them. While rates were dreadfully low, I did well with indices and a few utility-like (i.e., low-volatility with reasonable dividend) stocks. Now, rates are much higher, so I've gone into T-bills (for the first time). Ultimately, though, I've found that the S&P 500 (VOO) and tech-heavy ETFs (especially QQQ) yield the best returns over the long run. And stay away from derivatives, unless you trade for an institution and can trade large blocks at once, with the latest (borderline inside) information.

Keep it simple. Indices win.

I've been in financial markets for 15 years, from market risk and credit risk to commodities derivatives, so I'm happy to provide further advice if you're so inclined.

IDK what happened to my QQQ, my cost per share is $328 but I have 0.03 shares lol.

Thought I bought a few shares 2-3 years ago, must have sold but I can't find in my history when I sold.