OT: Career advice Part II

[CTTribe73]

I quit my job back in June, mainly because if I had stayed any longer, I was going to have a stroke or worse.

I started my own business. Started out ok. Now not so much.

I'm either the world's worst salesperson, the unluckiest, or caught not being able to afford to invest more into it to be able to talk with more people who would be more likely to buy.

Some of the stuff I'm dealing with is downright comical on how Murphy's Law it all is. It's like the dark cloud of awfulness set in over me in late October and hasn't left.

Basically, I meet the necessary requirements for statistically making sales, but just don't.

Main thing is, I probably need a job. Almost any job, and I'm willing to move almost anywhere for it.

Worst thing is - I always hear "follow your passion". I've never really ever had a passion for anything. I did 25 years of IT - most of it from the analyst side. The pendulum of that space has shifted almost solely to engineering, so that's out. Sales? I obviously suck ass at that. So, I just need something. I don't care if I like it. Just something I can do and can get paid decently for doing it.

I hear you. I’m in the same boat. Spent 20+ years in corporate working a bunch of financial roles as an CPA and had to quit due to family stuff. Been consulting for 3+ years but I’m tired of the sales pitch grind.

I might have an offer to take a tax director role with a company in Vegas but they want full relocation by May. Wife and I own a home here that we don’t want to just dump and she has a job she really enjoys that isn’t going to be portable. Plus what happens if we move and the job doesn’t work out? Now we have disposed of our best asset and would be empty handed in the middle of the desert.

I feel your frustration though. One thing I think but you can’t prove is there’s a TON of age discrimination out there these days and the bar seems to have dropped from the ‘traditional’ definition of mid-60s to now people in their 40s. It sucks because it’s the one thing none of us can control.

 

[NCRanger]

I hear you. I’m in the same boat. Spent 20+ years in corporate working a bunch of financial roles as an CPA and had to quit due to family stuff. Been consulting for 3+ years but I’m tired of the sales pitch grind.

I might have an offer to take a tax director role with a company in Vegas but they want full relocation by May. Wife and I own a home here that we don’t want to just dump and she has a job she really enjoys that isn’t going to be portable. Plus what happens if we move and the job doesn’t work out? Now we have disposed of our best asset and would be empty handed in the middle of the desert.

I feel your frustration though. One thing I think but you can’t prove is there’s a TON of age discrimination out there these days and the bar seems to have dropped from the ‘traditional’ definition of mid-60s to now people in their 40s. It sucks because it’s the one thing none of us can control.

It was supposed to get easier as we got older, right? We were supposed to be in demand for experience and knowledge. I don't see that at all anymore.

Good luck with deciding what to do about the offer. I have a friend who moved out to Vegas about five years ago and they absolutely love it. He finally found a state where they pay teachers fairly where taxes aren't ridiculous.

Age discrimination is no myth. it's one of the few "protected classes" that can't necessarily bring definitive cases. The way I was treated after I turned 51, even though COVID was still keeping all of us remote changed drastically. The week after I quit, my teammate who is the same age was fired. He was being treated even less fairly. He had been a managing director at Accenture and also a former CIO at a smaller bank. We were being kicked out the door without being just let go. I couldn't understand the whole time why they just didn't offer us early retirement. Once I quit, they had no use for him.

Two weeks ago, at the parents' meeting for my daughter's school soccer team (NC plays in the spring), one of the parents was talking with me and told me she was fired in July from the same company along with others who had been there awhile (all basically 45-55).

Funny thing is, I actually enjoy talking with people about insurance protection, finances, and retirement. I just totally suck at being able to "sell" them products.

 

[Chytilmania]

Life insurance/retirement planning

Do you have testimonials or success stories you can share with prospective clients? Referral system with your current clients?

Best thing I ever did was find mentors in my field and invest a lot of time/money learning from them.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Does anyone else feel they hit a wall in their career. I'm 37 years old and still an analyst where other analysts are in their late 20s / early 30s. I started in finance late but most of my grad school classmates are directors and VPs and a lot of them didn't start THAT long ago. I feel like I'm not good enough. Not smart enough, not composed enough, have too much ADHD during meetings etc. etc. etc.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Does anyone else feel they hit a wall in their career. I'm 37 years old and still an analyst where other analysts are in their late 20s / early 30s. I started in finance late but most of my grad school classmates are directors and VPs and a lot of them didn't start THAT long ago. I feel like I'm not good enough. Not smart enough, not composed enough, have too much ADHD during meetings etc. etc. etc.

Have you tried getting a mentor? Could be internal or external depending on your comfort level and someone who will give you honest feedback. It’s hard to self evaluate sometimes. Also there are professional coaches who can help, wouldn’t hurt to do a session or 2 maybe? I guess the objective would be to identify any trait that could sit in a blind spot and be partially responsible for holding you back.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Have you tried getting a mentor? Could be internal or external depending on your comfort level and someone who will give you honest feedback. It’s hard to self evaluate sometimes. Also there are professional coaches who can help, wouldn’t hurt to do a session or 2 maybe? I guess the objective would be to identify any trait that could sit in a blind spot and be partially responsible for holding you back.

Thanks, I just don't know how much money I want to pay for coaching. I'm also not sure if it's not knowing rather than a not doing issue.

 

[Chytilmania]

Does anyone else feel they hit a wall in their career. I'm 37 years old and still an analyst where other analysts are in their late 20s / early 30s. I started in finance late but most of my grad school classmates are directors and VPs and a lot of them didn't start THAT long ago. I feel like I'm not good enough. Not smart enough, not composed enough, have too much ADHD during meetings etc. etc. etc.

What have your classmates done to go from analysts to director/VP?

Are there any courses out there or someone you can hire to improve your skills?

 

[DialUp]

Does anyone else feel they hit a wall in their career. I'm 37 years old and still an analyst where other analysts are in their late 20s / early 30s. I started in finance late but most of my grad school classmates are directors and VPs and a lot of them didn't start THAT long ago. I feel like I'm not good enough. Not smart enough, not composed enough, have too much ADHD during meetings etc. etc. etc.

I am not 100% sure about your industry, but I am have been in FinTech sales for 18 years, was a strong individual contributor for the entire time, and just last year moved into management at 40 years old. In a different business line too. The ability, skillset, results and network was always there, but I didn't leverage my network correctly...until I finally did. I got raises and bonuses but not the promotion until I said f'ck it I am going to tell people I want it; it wasn't going to be handed to me. Build your network, but you need the data and experience to back it up.

Network!

 

[SnowblindNYR]

What have your classmates done to go from analysts to director/VP?

Are there any courses out there or someone you can hire to improve your skills?

I just assume they're better at their jobs.

 

[Chytilmania]

I just assume they're better at their jobs.

For the past 6 years I have paid mentors and friends/colleagues to teach me things I don't know or learn from their mistakes, intern with them for a week, etc. I average $10,000-15,000 a year on education (doesn't include travel expenses) and I have leap frogged many colleagues along the way. That investment has allowed me to start my own business and then open up my own location. Every industry is different but the more I learn the more I earn.

I also don't spend my money on anything else. I'm not a drinker, I don't go out to eat, I am not into cars, I don't have kids yet, I don't need vacations. And I actually enjoy being a student and sharpening my toolbox.

 

[Chytilmania]

Have you tried getting a mentor? Could be internal or external depending on your comfort level and someone who will give you honest feedback. It’s hard to self evaluate sometimes. Also there are professional coaches who can help, wouldn’t hurt to do a session or 2 maybe? I guess the objective would be to identify any trait that could sit in a blind spot and be partially responsible for holding you back.

When I was younger I never wanted to invest (not spend you can't think that way) in a business coach. Always thought it was a waste, I just needed to get in front of the clients and the rest is good. But anytime I hire someone, I get an influx in business, even without implementing anything new. Like you said, they will get you out of your comfort zone or give a fresh perspective. Sometimes you don't realize you are doing something negative.

 

[DialUp]

I just assume they're better at their jobs.

Trust us....that has nothing to do with the promotion. Doesn't mean that people good at their jobs DON'T get promotions, but that tends to be a non-factor.

 

[Roo Returns]

I just assume they're better at their jobs.

A lot of it is networking, building relationships, and "advertising" or "marketing" yourself to the right people, plus letting them know you want it.

Believe me, I got really content especially as a natural introvert during the pandemic where it was easy for me to grind and grind like Pete Rose/Ryan Callahan style, do my job, get really good in my particular area working 11-12 hour days, and then take a nap, watch the Rangers, and go on YouTube for two hours wash+rinse+repeat.

That was great and I got really comfortable, but it didn't lead to career growth (because honestly, I didn't care and was just happy to be working for a good company after years of working for one that.....wasn't....and having a good paycheck for a single guy). So my colleagues moved ahead and I stayed in the same place for a few years, but just getting more work to a point where it was overload and if I didn't work seven days a week or I decided to take 3-4 days off, there was a good chance that I'd be behind by a month or two and things would fall through the cracks. I've been on a lot of hockey trips the past three years and I'd say I log onto my secure network/work device at least once at about a 60% rate, and check my company phone at least 90% of the time. Not much time away other than flights.

I'm lucky enough to have hustled and sacrificed sleep to find an new gig so I have to take the lessons learned from the old place. Value education, even if it's a PITA or a general, just keep growing, and also even as an introvert, there are ways to casually stay in touch with your network and just let them know you're thinking about them, grab a coffee. That leads to new opportunities.

Also learn and listen. If you get a chance, spend some time with people on their jobs and be genuine. I know there's a lot of fear and people are always scared that you want to come for their jobs. But there's a way to not come off that way.

Finally, I think the emotional intelligence aspect is so underrated. I never really had that training growing up. I'm a quirky dude too. I learned sometimes during meetings less is more. Here's a terrible musical analogy; sometimes it's more impactful to play the David Gilmour Shine On You Crazy Diamond riff than going full Yngwie Malmsteen, or sometimes it's better to be the MC of the meeting and let everyone else talk, only setting the pace.

 

[Charlie Conway]

A lot of it is networking, building relationships, and "advertising" or "marketing" yourself to the right people, plus letting them know you want it.

Believe me, I got really content especially as a natural introvert during the pandemic where it was easy for me to grind and grind like Pete Rose/Ryan Callahan style, do my job, get really good in my particular area working 11-12 hour days, and then take a nap, watch the Rangers, and go on YouTube for two hours wash+rinse+repeat.

That was great and I got really comfortable, but it didn't lead to career growth (because honestly, I didn't care and was just happy to be working for a good company after years of working for one that.....wasn't....and having a good paycheck for a single guy).

Also learn and listen. If you get a chance, spend some time with people on their jobs and be genuine. I know there's a lot of fear and people are always scared that you want to come for their jobs. But there's a way to not come off that way.

That bit about grinding like Callahn was pretty much how I've been. I've been in higher education for 9 years. Early on, the hard work got me opportunities. Went from part-time to full-time, and then working for a different program. Been a bit more of a point person the last couple years.

The problem I found is that comfort leads to that plateau...that, or management lacking your best interest at heart. I don't really get as many opportunities now because I still work my ass off and don't complain. Most managers won't want to lose that. My last departmental shift was one my old supervisor tried to block because he didn't want me to go.

But now, it's 4 years down the line and the opportunities to move up aren't really there. My bosses give me small opportunities to do different things and they use me as a problem-solver as lot. There's trust in me, but it's not really creating opportunities for me either, if that makes sense. Education's in a rough spot because post-pandemic enrollment has been down, but that's not the entirety of it, either.

At this point, though, I'm asking questions, making the most of opportunities, and trying to learn more to try to get myself out there a bit more, which isn't usually my thing as a huge introvert.

At this point, my choice is either stick it out with the trust an opportunity may pop up or take an assistant director or supervisory position for the same pay elsewhere. ...Or change industries, which has its appeal as well, but I'd probably need to get back to school to actually shift to something else.

 

[BroadwayStorm]

I just assume they're better at their jobs.

Your attitude has to change. If you can't get what you want in your comfort zone you have to step outside of it. And you have to want that promotion. That means, networking and getting out there and going somewhere else. You HAVE to do it or you are gonna be a 40 year old analyst before you know it. Sadly in corporate America, who you know is just as important as how good you are when it comes to climbing the ladder. Now once you are up there... staying there is where your skill comes in handy. Because I have seen people fast track to the top or get up there through nepotism and then crash and burn. No one is untouchable when money is being lost.

 

[Profet]

Does anyone else feel they hit a wall in their career. I'm 37 years old and still an analyst where other analysts are in their late 20s / early 30s. I started in finance late but most of my grad school classmates are directors and VPs and a lot of them didn't start THAT long ago. I feel like I'm not good enough. Not smart enough, not composed enough, have too much ADHD during meetings etc. etc. etc.

Imposter syndrome is real.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Imposter syndrome is real.

The problem is that it's a self fulfilling prophecy. The imposter syndrome degrades my confidence which degrades my performance which leads to more imposter syndrome.

 

[Profet]

The problem is that it's a self fulfilling prophecy. The imposter syndrome degrades my confidence which degrades my performance which leads to more imposter syndrome.

I get it. I was recently pushed into a Senior Director role, and every day I wonder if I'm an example of the Peter principle or imposter syndrome.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I get it. I was recently pushed into a Senior Director role, and every day I wonder if I'm an example of the Peter principle or imposter syndrome.

I'm generally seen as smart by my peers and a lot of my peers are the same people I mentioned here with the fancy jobs. But every now and then I wonder if I'm not smart enough for corporate America period.

 

[Chytilmania]

The problem is that it's a self fulfilling prophecy. The imposter syndrome degrades my confidence which degrades my performance which leads to more imposter syndrome.

This isn’t great advice but to be honest there have been a handful of times, whether it’s someone I’ve worked with, met at a conference, saw on social media, etc. and I said to myself if this idiot can do it, then they only thing stopping me is me.

Then as I got to know some of these people better, they were indeed idiots. Many ended up plateauing and never advancing any further.

That bit about grinding like Callahn was pretty much how I've been. I've been in higher education for 9 years. Early on, the hard work got me opportunities. Went from part-time to full-time, and then working for a different program. Been a bit more of a point person the last couple years.

The problem I found is that comfort leads to that plateau...that, or management lacking your best interest at heart. I don't really get as many opportunities now because I still work my ass off and don't complain. Most managers won't want to lose that. My last departmental shift was one my old supervisor tried to block because he didn't want me to go.

But now, it's 4 years down the line and the opportunities to move up aren't really there. My bosses give me small opportunities to do different things and they use me as a problem-solver as lot. There's trust in me, but it's not really creating opportunities for me either, if that makes sense. Education's in a rough spot because post-pandemic enrollment has been down, but that's not the entirety of it, either.

At this point, though, I'm asking questions, making the most of opportunities, and trying to learn more to try to get myself out there a bit more, which isn't usually my thing as a huge introvert.

At this point, my choice is either stick it out with the trust an opportunity may pop up or take an assistant director or supervisory position for the same pay elsewhere. ...Or change industries, which has its appeal as well, but I'd probably need to get back to school to actually shift to something else.

You should check out the book 10X is Better Than 2x by Benjamin Hardy.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This isn’t great advice but to be honest there have been a handful of times, whether it’s someone I’ve worked with, met at a conference, saw on social media, etc. and I said to myself if this idiot can do it, then they only thing stopping me is me.

Then as I got to know some of these people better, they were indeed idiots. Many ended up plateauing and never advancing any further.

I think sometimes I have too much respect for others' abilities and not enough for my own.

 

[Chytilmania]

I think sometimes I have too much respect for others' abilities and not enough for my own.

There are a lot of phonies out there! Because they have confidence, people buy into it.

 

[CasusBelli]

There are a lot of phonies out there! Because they have confidence, people buy into it.

Truth. About 90% of the managers I have interviewed pass off the work and skills of their analysts as their own.

 

[DialUp]

Truth. About 90% of the managers I have interviewed pass off the work and skills of their analysts as their own.

A good manager just passes the work off (that is their job) but CREDITs the analysts. A manager's boss shouldn't WANT the manager to do any of that. Two levels above me got up in arms that I worked on a spreadsheet when I could have just had one of my reports do it (who is much better at it anyway).

 

[Crease]

Attach yourself to good managers and develop the skills they have, so as they move up, they recommend that you move up into their prior role. If you don’t know what those skills are, you need to pay more attention. It also helps immensely to have a good personal relationship with your managers. Take them out to eat/drink, take an interest in their personal life, etc. Corporate life is not a pure meritocracy. Some people think schmoozing is gross and insincere and that their work should speak for itself, but that’s not how life actually works unfortunately. And if you have a bad manager, you need to make a change.