OT: Career advice Part II

[NCRanger]

If you're them, and some random you have no relationship with is asking about WFH instead of immersing themselves in this new job.... you'd probably have an adverse reaction to that too.

I really don't have enough information to say who's right or wrong. I've been on both sides here, and unfortunately can't defend either side without knowing more details.

All I'll say it is completely possible the WFH question went to someone who doesn't deal with that HR stuff, and that person was insulted.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

You're demanding a home-based job that pays well. It would make sense if economies were entirely internet-based but this is not the case.

This is why it's so hard to have a conversation. You can make a point without exaggerating or misrepresenting what I did. I stated MULTIPLE times that I didn't demand or even request a home-based job. I was inquiring about what the policy was. In my experience hybrid is the most common type of job so I asked to be informed what the policy was. At no point was I given an answer and if I were told that it was onsite I'd say "ok" and that's it. I didn't think there was anything off base in clarifying. I asked the same question in my last job and was given an answer and no one had a f***ing hissy fit or thought I was demanding anything.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It seems more like a giant miscommunication than anything else, and it does seem as if your manager had some issues.

I have no idea where you were or what you were doing, but anywhere I've ever worked, it sometimes took a week just to get corporate access to systems and a few days to get up to some degree of speed of who does what, reporting structure, being introduced, etc. I was never doing massively important work in week one. When I was an acting manager, I didn't have any real expectations of a new hire for three weeks.

How often were you away from your desk? Seems like it had to be quite a bit if it was noticed that you weren't locking your screen. Couple that with the phone, and the WFH questions, even if it was minimal, a narrative was painted that may not have been anywhere near accurate.

Honestly, it just doesn't feel like a fit for you. It sounds like a place that thrives on chaos and has a poor culture. Then again, maybe the manager is just an ass.

I do encourage you to stop with the "boomer" crap. The youngest actual boomer is 60 years old. It makes you sound a bit arrogant and dismissive of anyone older than you.

I was not away from my desk all that often. Just for lunch mostly and to go to the bathroom. I guess I had two or three brief breaks where I went to get coffee and take it back to my desk. I was there only a week so I don't really know where I can be away from my desk other than those few scenarios. I've had jobs where I was at years and had friends at and it was laid back and I would go shoot the shit with friends. But this wasn't the case here, I knew no one. So there was really not that many opportunities to leave my desk. My guess is they saw the screen after I left to go home because that would probably be a bigger issue than a 2 minute coffee break or a 30 second bathroom break.

Also, there was ZERO onboarding, I was literally told I'm working day one and given a project that would be going to the board on day one. I think it's an insight into how this guy thinks. He took the world "consultant" to heart. He never saw me as part of the team just a hired gun.

At the end of the day I was just discussing with my wife, I have a MUCH better opportunity and working for this shitty ass organization would have made it much harder to interview. I would have had a small window on summer Friday and I had to make sure that in the final round the 3 people I interviewed with all had availability then, and if not then then the following week. It would have made it difficult to find a time. And if I don't get this job, I'll have difficulty in the future setting up other interviews. Back in the day I'd take a day off to interview. Can you imagine me taking a day off two weeks in if he flips out over me asking about WFH policy? Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[will1066]

Treat it as a lesson learned. Move on. The environment didn't seem the right one. When you asked about the policy, you already revealed intent. Some companies want to wipe out WFH; they want everyone back. They're the Jamie Dimons. And when you get the job at the much more desirable company, be on your best behavior.

 

[LokiDog]

This is why it's so hard to have a conversation. You can make a point without exaggerating or misrepresenting what I did. I stated MULTIPLE times that I didn't demand or even request a home-based job. I was inquiring about what the policy was. In my experience hybrid is the most common type of job so I asked to be informed what the policy was. At no point was I given an answer and if I were told that it was onsite I'd say "ok" and that's it. I didn't think there was anything off base in clarifying. I asked the same question in my last job and was given an answer and no one had a f***ing hissy fit or thought I was demanding anything.

Other people’s perception of you is their reality of you. What they perceive is the only version they know. How do you think asking about WFH multiple times in your first 5 days in the office is *perceived*? I get that you “just wanted an answer” but did you NEED an answer in your first week? Especially if, as you say, it wasn’t a request - you just wanted to know the policy.

If you weren’t going to request to WFH, was it SO important to know the policy in week one? Perception. Again, if it was that important to be clear on the WFH policy, you should have made sure you had that information before accepting the job. If it is that important to you, it should be understood before taking the role. If it wasn’t THAT important, it probably wasn’t worth asking about multiple times within your first 5 days in the role. Again, the *perception* will be “this guy keeps asking about WFH and he hasn’t even been here 3 days. And he’s always on his phone. He clearly doesn’t want to be here.” Whether “requesting to” WFH or just asking “what is the WFH policy” the perception will be identical: “this guy wants to WFH”.

I’m sure you have some validity in your frustration, but this all also feels like professionalism 101.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Other people’s perception of you is their reality of you. What they perceive is the only version they know. How do you think asking about WFH multiple times in your first 5 days in the office is *perceived*? I get that you “just wanted an answer” but did you NEED an answer in your first week? Especially if, as you say, it wasn’t a request - you just wanted to know the policy. So was it SO important to know the policy in week one? Perception. Again, if it was that important to be clear on the WFH policy, you should have made sure you had that information before accepting the job. If it is that important to you, it should be understood before taking the role. If it wasn’t THAT important, it probably wasn’t worth asking about multiple times within your first 5 days in the role. Again, the *perception* will be “this guy keeps asking about WFH and he hasn’t even been here 3 days. And he’s always on his phone. He clearly doesn’t want to be here.” Whether “requesting to” WFH or just asking “what is the WFH policy” the perception will be identical: “this guy wants to WFH”.

I’m sure you have some validity in your frustration, but this all also feels like professionalism 101.

TBH, the reason I didn't ask the recruiter is because I did not like these recruiters that I was working with. They tried to hustle me in the door as quickly as possible and were very short with their answers every time I asked them. When I was told I got the job I asked if it was hybrid or not he very annoyingly said it's 3 days a week but he wasn't sure because he deals with many clients. I didn't even want to ask him how much I was getting paid (I found that out in the contract) because any question was met with an attitude of "this guy is making it difficult for me to staff him".

As far as asking multiple times, I didn't ask the same person multiple times. I was asking different people and going to the person I was told to go to. I asked person A, he said to go to person B, I asked person B and she said to go to the CFO. Mind you I worked in a contract role once where I was treated as an employee though before WFH was a thing. I also asked this question and received an answer with no fuss in at least the last one if not the last two jobs I was at. So maybe I didn't know the unwritten rules of being a contractor. Maybe I haven't updated my thinking since 2023 and companies were moving away from it. Though, like 95% of companies on LinkedIn are hybrid or remote. Or maybe I worked with decent people that don't treat their employees like shit and can answer a question without taking great offense to it.

At the end of the day I can't fault them for wanting me onsite, I even can swallow my pride and say I can't fault them for being turned off by the question, but there was no excuse to fire me at the dead of the night without having one 15 minute conversation. I was treated as disposable and not a human being. For that I hope the org goes out of business and this asshole ends up on his ass somewhere. f*** him sideways, wish nothing but the worst for him.

Oh and not working at this dead end job with absolute scumbags in one of the worst parts of the city gives me opportunity to interview for jobs I actually want without trying to fit every interview in a 2-3 hour time window a week.

 

[LokiDog]

I don’t know if I’m just very black pilled, but you are disposable. I am disposable. @Boris Zubov is disposable (extra). Unless you were a founder, you are disposable. “It’s like a family here” is corporate propaganda. You only get one family and it isn’t at work. You should conduct yourself as if you are disposable (not making it a priority to track down an answer to WFH in week one - it doesn’t matter that you asked multiple different people, you were determined to prioritize getting that answer) in every job because you are. Manage people’s perception of you in the work place. Hedge on the side of “I am disposable, so if I want to stay here, I am the person THEY want me to be”. Obviously with tenure and familiarity you can hedge less and be authentic, and different industries and roles are better suited toward that, but in general, you are still disposable.

You keep referencing other companies, different years, places where you either had tenure or weren’t a contractor. It sounds like a lot of dodging taking accountability for your own portion of this. Only compare your experience to the one you had as a contractor in 2025 in the first 5 days of employment. Stop expecting “this” to be “like that”.

Meanwhile, I am less inclined to become more agreeable the more you describe your experience. You accepted a role with a recruiter you didn’t like, who you didn’t push to give you the answers you needed, without even knowing the salary. Recruiters only get paid if they make placements. Next time sack up and ask them “I’m assuming you’d like me accept this role? Then I have some questions and I’m going to need you to do a better job of providing answers before I’m able to do that.” You took a role from a rude, lazy recruiter, without even knowing the salary and you’re surprised the outcome wasn’t positive?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don’t know if I’m just very black pilled, but you are disposable. I am disposable. @Boris Zubov is disposable (extra). Unless you were a founder, you are disposable. “It’s like a family here” is corporate propaganda. You only get one family and it isn’t at work. You should conduct yourself as if you are disposable (not making it a priority to track down an answer to WFH in week one - it doesn’t matter that you asked multiple different people, you were determined to prioritize getting that answer) in every job because you are. Manage people’s perception of you in the work place. Hedge on the side of “I am disposable, so if I want to stay here, I am the person THEY want me to be”. Obviously with tenure and familiarity you can hedge less and be authentic, and different industries and roles are better suited toward that, but in general, you are still disposable.

You keep referencing other companies, different years, places where you either had tenure or weren’t a contractor. It sounds like a lot of dodging taking accountability for your own portion of this. Only compare your experience to the one you had as a contractor in 2025 in the first 5 days of employment. Stop expecting “this” to be “like that”.

Meanwhile, I am less inclined to become more agreeable the more you describe your experience. You accepted a role with a recruiter you didn’t like, who you didn’t push to give you the answers you needed, without even knowing the salary. Recruiters only get paid if they make placements. Next time sack up and ask them “I’m assuming you’d like me accept this role? Then I have some questions and I’m going to need you to do a better job of providing answers before I’m able to do that.” You took a role from a rude, lazy recruiter, without even knowing the salary and you’re surprised the outcome wasn’t positive?

Well, I think FTEs for whatever reason, potentially legal or other are less disposable than contractors. And this is why I'll think long and hard before I accept another contract job. I DID have an experience at a different contract job where people were treated as human beings. So even in that setting not everyone acts like you're a piece of trash.

As far as the recruiter? "Sack up" is fair. But as someone who has had issues with cash flow recently you don't understand taking a job strictly to be earning a paycheck? The job description looked good and it was a paycheck, I was without a job for quite some time. Yes, I should have pushed and that's on me but I'm surprised you're shocked that I took the job because I didn't like the recruiter. I knew the salary was in the range that it was btw because I made a request for it, but I think I saw a slightly lower but different number somewhere in the communications. So I knew it would be in the range of what I was looking for but wasn't sure if it would be exactly what I was looking for. Bottom line is I should have confirmed for sure. That's on me. But given my prior experiences I really had no idea that inquiries into WFH were going to be perceived a certain way because in my experience I never received negative feedback on that and always just got an answer.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This is silly, as I mentioned this is potentially a blessing in disguise. Shitty job that would have (and already did to an extent) hindered my interviews for full time roles at places I actually want to work in. So good riddance.

 

[LokiDog]

Well, I think FTEs for whatever reason, potentially legal or other are less disposable than contractors. And this is why I'll think long and hard before I accept another contract job. I DID have an experience at a different contract job where people were treated as human beings. So even in that setting not everyone acts like you're a piece of trash.

As far as the recruiter? "Sack up" is fair. But as someone who has had issues with cash flow recently you don't understand taking a job strictly to be earning a paycheck? The job description looked good and it was a paycheck, I was without a job for quite some time. Yes, I should have pushed and that's on me but I'm surprised you're shocked that I took the job because I didn't like the recruiter. I knew the salary was in the range that it was btw because I made a request for it, but I think I saw a slightly lower but different number somewhere in the communications. So I knew it would be in the range of what I was looking for but wasn't sure if it would be exactly what I was looking for. Bottom line is I should have confirmed for sure. That's on me. But given my prior experiences I really had no idea that inquiries into WFH were going to be perceived a certain way because in my experience I never received negative feedback on that and always just got an answer.

I understand taking a job to have a paycheck, for sure. But I have never and will never accept a job without being told the salary. Maybe because I was a recruiter in NYC for a good long while, I understand how recruiters work from having been on both sides of the conversations, but my point is there were red flags all along in the hiring process so a shitty outcome shouldn’t be surprising.

I would still advise you make sure future recruiters give you the details you deem critical, like WFH policy and salary, before accepting a role. They usually can’t tell you much about your responsibilities and projects because they aren’t actually familiar with the job; they recruit for a variety of roles and that’s just one they have on their desk. They can be held accountable for clarifying things like WFH. Get the info from the recruiter so they you can better manage your new co-workers’ and employer’s perception of you when you show up for the first week, rather than making finding out if/when you can work from home *seem* like your top priority.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I understand taking a job to have a paycheck, for sure. But I have never and will never accept a job without being told the salary. Maybe because I was a recruiter in NYC for a good long while, I understand how recruiters work from having been on both sides of the conversations, but my point is there were red flags all along in the hiring process so a shitty outcome shouldn’t be surprising.

I would still advise you make sure future recruiters give you the details you deem critical, like WFH policy and salary, before accepting a role. They usually can’t tell you much about your responsibilities and projects because they aren’t actually familiar with the job; they recruit for a variety of roles and that’s just one they have on their desk. They can be held accountable for clarifying things like WFH. Get the info from the recruiter so they you can better manage your new co-workers’ and employer’s perception of you when you show up for the first week, rather than making finding out if/when you can work from home *seem* like your top priority.

All of this is fair. I'll be honest I'm struggling to decide on whether I should ever accept a contract role again especially an open ended one. This experience left an awful taste in my mouth but I also want money.

 

[LokiDog]

Here’s an example. I started a new job last week. The hours are currently 7:30-6pm and I work Saturday as well. During my on boarding, I read the employee handbook and it states that we’re expected to be there 8-6 but also free to manage our book of business as we see fit and that each sales executive is entitled to flexibility with their schedule. I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to guess that I’m not super fond of 10.5 hours in the office, 6 days a week with a 30 minute drive each way. That’s nearly 70 hours out of the house.

However, I have a guaranteed base of over 70k and will be earning solid commission once I get going. It’s a good job that will provide for us. I would love to trim the hours a bit but my priority right now is becoming a valued and trusted employee over these first couple of months so that when I point to the actual schedule policy I have some results under my belt and my manager sees that I am capable of doing the job, doing it well and that I can very likely manage much of the responsibilities from my computer at home just as easily as in the office so that I can maybe get down to 50 hours outside of the house. I still fully intend to put in 60-70 hours because I want to make sales and earn over six figures, but I want to first prove that I am capable so that when I broach the subject there isn’t much reason for my boss to object.

Even though I am aware that the policy technically allows me to work less from day one, I am acutely aware of how asking for less hours at this juncture will effect how I am perceived in a negative way. In your 30s, you ought to have the EQ to understand that as a professional.

 

[NickyFotiu]

However, I have a guaranteed base of over 70k and will be earning solid commission once I get going. It’s a good job that will provide for us.

Wow that is a really nice, dramatic and quick turnaround! That is fantastic. Really happy to hear how fast some people are bouncing back career wise. Well done!

 

[LokiDog]

Wow that is a really nice, dramatic and quick turnaround! That is fantastic. Really happy to hear how fast some people are bouncing back career wise. Well done!

Thank you. Unfortunately, because of the switch over I’m short on rent today - waiting to hear from my landlord about being lenient, we’ve been good tenants with no late or missed payments for our 8 months here so far - and even if he accepts less than full rent, I’ll have nothing until my first paycheck (which is hopefully this Friday, but possibly next - I’ll find out tomorrow). Rainbow is too pregnant to work at this stage, baby should be here in 3-4 weeks. We will be fine long term, but we’re in a crunch for a couple of weeks.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Thank you. Unfortunately, because of the switch over I’m short on rent today - waiting to hear from my landlord about being lenient, we’ve been good tenants with no late or missed payments for our 8 months here so far - and even if he accepts less than full rent, I’ll have nothing until my first paycheck (which is hopefully this Friday, but possibly next - I’ll find out tomorrow). Rainbow is too pregnant to work at this stage, baby should be here in 3-4 weeks. We will be fine long term, but we’re in a crunch for a couple of weeks.

If its a corporate landlord they usually have a policy in their lease like X amount of dollar late fee after 5 days late. Have you looked at your lease? Corporate TX leases are usually pretty standard.

 

[LokiDog]

If its a corporate landlord they usually have a policy in their lease like X amount of dollar late fee after 5 days late. Have you looked at your lease? Corporate TX leases are usually pretty standard.

It’s not corporate, it’s his only rental property. Just a random house he fixed up and rents. He’s usually been pretty responsive with anything in the past so I’m assuming he’s just busy with his weekend and I’ll hear from him Monday. I’m also guessing he’ll agree to split the rent for the month into two payments, so we’ll likely be tight but fine.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Here’s an example. I started a new job last week. The hours are currently 7:30-6pm and I work Saturday as well. During my on boarding, I read the employee handbook and it states that we’re expected to be there 8-6 but also free to manage our book of business as we see fit and that each sales executive is entitled to flexibility with their schedule. I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to guess that I’m not super fond of 10.5 hours in the office, 6 days a week with a 30 minute drive each way. That’s nearly 70 hours out of the house.

However, I have a guaranteed base of over 70k and will be earning solid commission once I get going. It’s a good job that will provide for us. I would love to trim the hours a bit but my priority right now is becoming a valued and trusted employee over these first couple of months so that when I point to the actual schedule policy I have some results under my belt and my manager sees that I am capable of doing the job, doing it well and that I can very likely manage much of the responsibilities from my computer at home just as easily as in the office so that I can maybe get down to 50 hours outside of the house. I still fully intend to put in 60-70 hours because I want to make sales and earn over six figures, but I want to first prove that I am capable so that when I broach the subject there isn’t much reason for my boss to object.

Even though I am aware that the policy technically allows me to work less from day one, I am acutely aware of how asking for less hours at this juncture will effect how I am perceived in a negative way. In your 30s, you ought to have the EQ to understand that as a professional.

I mean, I wouldn't ask for fewer hours. I did want to ask for more hours during Monday through Thursday to make up for the half day on Friday BUT that was the recommendation of the recruiter and he said they'd let me do that. But to me fewer hours is more closely related to laziness than working from home so I wouldn't ask that. I guess not everyone sees it that way. Maybe I'm not operating from the reality of contract work or small non-profits. My experience has been elsewhere.

 

[LokiDog]

I mean, I wouldn't ask for fewer hours. I did want to ask for more hours during Monday through Thursday to make up for the half day on Friday BUT that was the recommendation of the recruiter and he said they'd let me do that. But to me fewer hours is more closely related to laziness than working from home so I wouldn't ask that. I guess not everyone sees it that way. Maybe I'm not operating from the reality of contract work or small non-profits. My experience has been elsewhere.

You’re not operating from reality mate. I’m working 65 hours and despite the policy saying I don’t have to, I’m consciously opting to continue doing so for at least 2+ months in order to establish myself - even though I have a 35 week pregnant women at home, as well as a 3 year old son and 8 year old stepson - rather than pestering ANYONE at my brand new job about WHEN I can do reduce my IN office hours (aka WFH). I never said I was going to reduce my working hours… I said I would like to spend less than 70 out of the house. I COULD ask for less right now, but I understand that it would negatively alter everyone’s perception of me.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

You’re not operating from reality mate. I’m working 65 hours and despite the policy saying I don’t have to, I’m consciously opting to continue doing so for at least 2+ months in order to establish myself - even though I have a 35 week pregnant women at home, as well as a 3 year old son and 8 year old stepson - rather than pestering ANYONE at my brand new job about WHEN I can do reduce my IN office hours (aka WFH). I never said I was going to reduce my working hours… I said I would like to spend less than 70 out of the house. I COULD ask for less right now, but I understand that it would negatively alter everyone’s perception of me.

Relax man, I misunderstood your comment. I didn't realize you were looking to ask for WFH. I don't know why you're being snappy if I clearly thought you meant something else and you could clearly tell. Either way, if WFH is so offensive that just asking about it when you have a 3 year old son, and 8 year old stepson, and a baby on the way that points at how broken the system is, rather than any entitlement on your part. Yes we have to operate within the system, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it or like it. If you choose to side with the employer and think that this is normal that's your prerogative. I choose to disagree with it. I'm not changing anything and next time I will either find out before I start or shut my mouth but I don't think it's normal. And I wouldn't be proud of thinking this is normal. This is some 1960s shit that we have to agree with everything a company does just because it's the company. We can operate within it and act according to its laws because we lack power to change it, but sorry mate I'm not going to agree with it.

 

[LokiDog]

Relax man, I misunderstood your comment. I didn't realize you were looking to ask for WFH. I don't know why you're being snappy if I clearly thought you meant something else and you could clearly tell. Either way, if WFH is so offensive that just asking about it when you have a 3 year old son, and 8 year old stepson, and a baby on the way that points at how broken the system is, rather than any entitlement on your part. Yes we have to operate within the system, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it or like it. If you choose to side with the employer and think that this is normal that's your prerogative. I choose to disagree with it. I'm not changing anything and next time I will either find out before I start or shut my mouth but I don't think it's normal. And I wouldn't be proud of thinking this is normal. This is some 1960s shit that we have to agree with everything a company does just because it's the company. We can operate within it and act according to its laws because we lack power to change it, but sorry mate I'm not going to agree with it.

See, this is where I say you’re in pure denial. Nowhere did I say I liked it, sided with it, or intended to continue along as if it was fine with me. I said that I understand how I will be perceived if I make lessening my time in office one of my earliest priorities and that I am thus satisfied with paying my dues for a short time in order to ensure my job security is firm before broaching the topic. Lessening my hours on site actually IS one of my priorities and keys to this job being a fit long term. I just understand the difference between pestering everyone in my office, the way my 8 year old pesters me about going ice skating, and having the maturity and professional intelligence to understand I’m better positioned by proving myself first and discussing schedule later.

Your reaction essentially shows exactly why you were let go, and frankly? I probably agree with the employer. You’re not presenting yourself as someone to be taken seriously as an adult professional in this thread. You’re presenting as a shortsighted and immature person in the workplace and I would predict you werr 5-10 years younger than you are based on your responses and reasoning on this topic. You f***ed up. Period. You’re looking for strangers to validate your hurt feelings and coddle and back pat you when the reality is you demonstrated short sighted, entitled, unprofessional behavior (both in your interactions with the recruiter and your behavior during your first week) and you want people to take your side and vindicate you instead of owning your failings. Good luck.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

and here's more of reality-the boss does not give two shits whether you agree with him/her. also if that boss is in the office as well as other workers that have to be there all 5 days then yeah asking about WFM during the first week on the job is not a good idea. you will stand out. all you had to do was work all 5 days and observe whether or not anybody is not working the whole 5 days in the office to get your answer. and while you were at it why not ask when you can expect the first bonus check?

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

also regarding the phone. it's best not let anyone see you on that thingy constantly. all it takes is one asshole to rat you out.

 

[LokiDog]

also regarding the phone. it's best not let anyone see you on that thingy constantly. all it takes is one asshole to rat you out.

Do you, by chance, work for NASA? I only ask because this is clearly rocket scientist level thinking.

 

[NickyFotiu]

and here's more of reality-the boss does not give two shits whether you agree with him/her. also if that boss is in the office as well as other workers that have to be there all 5 days then yeah asking about WFM during the first week on the job is not a good idea. you will stand out. all you had to do was work all 5 days and observe whether or not anybody is not working the whole 5 days in the office to get your answer. and while you were at it why not ask when you can expect the first bonus check?

Ive been here 9 days, on time most the time, even when it rained. Don't you think its time we discussed a promotion?

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

i mean it's one thing to constantly bitch and moan about the organizational suckiness of the rangers. whatever - i get it. but all this bitching and moaning-cries of victimhood and unfairness. holy shit man!!