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Confirmed Trade: [CAR/PIT] Jake Guentzel (25% retained), Ty Smith for Michael Bunting, Ville Koivunen, Vasili Ponomarev, Cruz Lucius, 2024 cond. 1st, 2024 cond. 5th

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Gurglesons said:
Nah. Kuzy even as mid as he has been is a huge improvement on what they were running in the 2C hole.
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He has 1 pt and is minus 2 in his last 5. His ice time is also dropping. He will be waived at some point next year.

He was also line 3 center last game.
 
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I gotta admit. I thought Guentzel would be a dud without Crosby. I’m happy that he’s proving me wrong.
 
Rockman74 said:
I gotta admit. I thought Guentzel would be a dud without Crosby. I’m happy that he’s proving me wrong.
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Guentzel doing well away from Crosby and Crosby doing insanely well without Guentzel.

Almost like they are just two ridiculously good players no matter who they are with.

Neither of these guys need linemates to do the carrying. They do the carrying.
 
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Rockman74 said:
I gotta admit. I thought Guentzel would be a dud without Crosby. I’m happy that he’s proving me wrong.
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It's not easy to play with Crosby. The fact they played so well together shows they think the game similarly. That and you just have to watch him to see he's an intelligent player. Not to mention Aho and Jarvis are excellent players in their own right.
 
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Canes will be in a little predicament. Do they offer Jake 9 AAV for 7 years? If not and they lose in the first or second round, then was the deal worth it? Pens had no choice but Canes have to think hard about this. Jake may be better off with a team that really needs him. Canes can win without him.
 
chethejet said:
Canes will be in a little predicament. Do they offer Jake 9 AAV for 7 years? If not and they lose in the first or second round, then was the deal worth it? Pens had no choice but Canes have to think hard about this. Jake may be better off with a team that really needs him. Canes can win without him.
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Carolina will not worry about the prospects & picks given up for Guentzel. They went for it, it may not work out. If only a cup defines "worked out", it probably won't work out by sheer odds.

The key will be whether they believe Guentzel will continue to produce through a 7-8 year deal. A high $$ contract for a player who is old is what they've tried to avoid. I think Guentzel would produce well into his mid-30s but that's me.

If not, Guentzel will go UFA while Carolina works on signing Jarvis, Necas, and possibly one of Skjei/Pesce.
 
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Chrispy said:
If not, Guentzel will go UFA while Carolina works on signing Jarvis, Necas, and possibly one of Skjei/Pesce.
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They should not. I keep saying we need to have 6 top-6 and 4 top-4 D. Legitimate ones. Everything else is fungible. Necas and Jarvy need to return too...but that's not enough upfront. If we let Guentzel walk, we need to get another legitimate top-6 F to replace him. We're paying for a Guentzel-quality guy whether it's him or someone else. Kotkaniemi doesn't belong in the top-6 and neither does Martinook. There's not a near-term top-6 potential wing in our system. So...it seems like Jake's our best choice.

Orlov makes Skjei redundant. Pesce is exactly the kind of agong veteran starting to decline we've avoided giving money and term to. If we think Chatty's the 4th one, re-sign him. Otherwise, we need to find a defensive-minded #4/2RD as well, but that's not a spot to spend a lot. We have good future defensemen in our system.
 
Chan790 said:
They should not. I keep saying we need to have 6 top-6 and 4 top-4 D. Legitimate ones. Everything else is fungible. Necas and Jarvy need to return too...but that's not enough upfront. If we let Guentzel walk, we need to get another legitimate top-6 F to replace him. We're paying for a Guentzel-quality guy whether it's him or someone else. Kotkaniemi doesn't belong in the top-6 and neither does Martinook. There's not a near-term top-6 potential wing in our system. So...it seems like Jake's our best choice.

Orlov makes Skjei redundant. Pesce is exactly the kind of agong veteran starting to decline we've avoided giving money and term to. If we think Chatty's the 4th one, re-sign him. Otherwise, we need to find a defensive-minded #4/2RD as well, but that's not a spot to spend a lot. We have good future defensemen in our system.
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Yeah, if the Canes are wanting an elite scoring winger from here on out, I'm not sure where they're getting a better bet than Guentzel.

If I were them, I'd re-sign Jake and leverage some prospects to add quality depth guys on the cheap...if they're not ready to contribute right out the box.
 
Darren McCord said:
He has 1 pt and is minus 2 in his last 5. His ice time is also dropping. He will be waived at some point next year.

He was also line 3 center last game.
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Jordan Staal often gets similar to more use than the second line center. We joke about it on the Canes board that he’s the 2C even when he’s the 3C. Rod would play him over Aho if he thought he could get away with it.

I don’t know what your thing against Kuzy is but it doesn’t check out as a Canes fan.
 
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Darren McCord said:
He has 1 pt and is minus 2 in his last 5. His ice time is also dropping. He will be waived at some point next year.

He was also line 3 center last game.
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EV ice time vs Montreal:
Aho 14:54
Kuznetsov 13:12
Drury 11:46
Staal 11:45

PK ice time vs Montreal:
Staal 2:16
Drury 1:52
Aho 1:49

PP ice time vs Montreal:
Aho 2:04 (nearly identical to the entire PP1 unit)
Kuznetsov 0:36 (nearly identical to the entire PP2 unit.)

Kuznetsov had the second-highest EV ice time vs Montreal.

Against Detroit, Kuznetsov had the most EV ice time among centers at 14:00.

So the criticism of Kuznetsov's ice time is he's on PP2 and not playing the PK?
And this is a bad thing?
 
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domaug said:
no offense, but if you thought that, you haven't watched Guentzel play.

he's been a damn good winger with and without Crosby.
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Regarding Jake's next contract....
The Canes can sign him for 8 years, other teams for 7. (I think that is still the rule).
I believe that Jake's agent is looking for 10+ million a season and he deserves it. He is a great player.
The only thing Jake has going against him is his age. He is 29, and will be 30 to start the 2024/25 season.
The cap is rising 4M next season.

If I had to take a guess, I would think the Canes sign him to
8 years at 10.5M

If we look at comparable signings:
William Nylander signed for 8 years at 11.5 (1 year younger)
JT Miller signed for 7 years at 8M two years ago (1 year older)
Bo Horvat signed 8 years at 8.5 (1 year younger)

What is the consensus on his next contract amount?
 
WhiskeyYerTheDevils said:
Kuznetsov has been great for the Canes, what is this nonsense? He could easily have 4-5 more points.
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He's had a couple rough games since his great start here but yeah he's mostly been great and simply looking at his points total is insufficient for evaluating his time in Carolina so far.

Lemieuxs said:
Regarding Jake's next contract....
The Canes can sign him for 8 years, other teams for 7. (I think that is still the rule).
I believe that Jake's agent is looking for 10+ million a season and he deserves it. He is a great player.
The only thing Jake has going against him is his age. He is 29, and will be 30 to start the 2024/25 season.
The cap is rising 4M next season.

If I had to take a guess, I would think the Canes sign him to
8 years at 10.5M

If we look at comparable signings:
William Nylander signed for 8 years at 11.5 (1 year younger)
JT Miller signed for 7 years at 8M two years ago (1 year older)
Bo Horvat signed 8 years at 8.5 (1 year younger)

What is the consensus on his next contract amount?
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Canes probably go 8 x 9 at most, and I think that could get it done.
 
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Curious if the Canes open their checkbooks to keep Guentzel. Thats a name they really need to stick around
 
I’d be shocked if the Canes offered Guentzel more than they’re paying Aho. I have a hard time seeing them going much over $8M on a max term deal.

If he’s truly looking for $10M, he ain’t getting that in Raleigh and I highly doubt he gets that anywhere else either.
 
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chethejet said:
Canes will be in a little predicament. Do they offer Jake 9 AAV for 7 years? If not and they lose in the first or second round, then was the deal worth it?
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That could be said about any TDL rental. If you lose in the first round, was it even worth a 7th rounder? No, but those are the risks that a team takes when they’re primed for a deep run.
 
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chethejet said:
Canes will be in a little predicament. Do they offer Jake 9 AAV for 7 years? If not and they lose in the first or second round, then was the deal worth it? Pens had no choice but Canes have to think hard about this. Jake may be better off with a team that really needs him. Canes can win without him.
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Deal was definitely worth it for the Canes. They lost some prospect depth sure but they still have a strong prospect pool considering they should be perenial playoff team for the forseable future. They'll also still have their 1st if they don't make the finals and they have a couple of extra 6ths to take some swings in later rounds.
 
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