Post-Game Talk: Caps

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I had to find a link....but I already knew . Highest Goal Per Game With A Minimum Of 500 Games Played By A Player In Career | StatMuse

Bossy also retired at 30, still in his prime. What would Gretzky’s G/pg be if he retired in 1990?

Quick maths say 0.897

 

[Fitzy]

I mean, it's easier to score goals than it was like post-lockout up to like 2019, but Ovechkin also played then.

And it's not as easy to score as it was when Gretzky set the record.

I make fun of him because of course I do, but Ovechkin is pretty comfortably the best goal-scorer of all-time.

And literally no one who isn't a jackass is claiming he's the best player in history. He probably isnt top 5. I'd probably go

Gretz
Lemieux
Orr
Hasek
McDavid
Crosby


Ovechkin is probably in that 6-10 tier with Bourque, Howe, Jagr, Roy. That's good company. He's ahead of Yzerman, Sakic, Hull, Messier.


He's just the best power forward of all time, best winger, and probably best pure goal scorer (Overall, not at peak 5 years of career)

IDK what the sporting analogy would be. Best home run hitter in baseball I guess. Ted Williams vs Honus Wagner. No one thinks Williams is better overall.

 

[Machinehead]

Gretzky is overlooked as a goal-scorer because he slowed down in the 90's.

Prime Gretzky averaged 70 a year. Nobody has come close to it since, and nobody was doing it then, so you can't say it was because of the era. He had 637 goals from 1979-1989. Bossy was 117 behind him. Nobody else had 500.

I think it could be argued that Gretzky just didn't age particularly well so he just became Connor McDavid the second half of his career instead of two Connor McDavid's, but his goal-scoring peak is still unmatched.

Ovechkin has him beat on longevity.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Gretzky is overlooked as a goal-scorer because he slowed down in the 90's.

Prime Gretzky averaged 70 a year. Nobody has come close to it since, and nobody was doing it then, so you can't say it was because of the era. He had 637 goals from 1979-1989. Bossy was 117 behind him. Nobody else had 500.

I think it could be argued that Gretzky just didn't age particularly well so he just became Connor McDavid the second half of his career instead of two Connor McDavid's, but his goal-scoring peak is still unmatched.

Ovechkin has him beat on longevity.

His assist numbers are so insane that people don’t want to think of him as the GOAT goal scorer, but he does have , or had, all the goal records too

 

[TheWrongWay]

I mean, it's easier to score goals than it was like post-lockout up to like 2019, but Ovechkin also played then.

And it's not as easy to score as it was when Gretzky set the record.

I make fun of him because of course I do, but Ovechkin is pretty comfortably the best goal-scorer of all-time.

AO is a great goal scorer, but from the time I started watching in the early 70s, I'd say Mike Bossy is pretty comfortably the best goal scorer I've seen. I'd probably also put Mario Lemieux above AO. I'd put AO in a hair lower tier with Gretzky and maybe Pavel Bure. But the top guy for me, no doubt about it, is Mike Bossy. Those three playoffs in a row where Bossy was almost a goal a game (51 goals in 56 playoff games during three Cup wins) is insane in any era.

 

[Salsa Shark]

Gretzky is a victim of his own success in many ways.

 

[Machinehead]

And literally no one who isn't a jackass is claiming he's the best player in history. He probably isnt top 5. I'd probably go

Gretz
Lemieux
Orr
Hasek
McDavid
Crosby


Ovechkin is probably in that 6-10 tier with Bourque, Howe, Jagr, Roy. That's good company. He's ahead of Yzerman, Sakic, Hull, Messier.


He's just the best power forward of all time, best winger, and probably best pure goal scorer (Overall, not at peak 5 years of career)

IDK what the sporting analogy would be. Best home run hitter in baseball I guess. Ted Williams vs Honus Wagner. No one thinks Williams is better overall.

Hank Aaron feels about right.

He's 7th in WAR. You could argue Ovechkin is kind of in that range.

He's nowhere near a better player than Ruth.

When Ruth put up those numbers he was absolutely incinerating the record book like Gretzky was.

Aaron never hit 50 homers and never came close to the single-season record but his consistency was unmatched in MLB history in terms of power hitting. Ovechkin has scored 60 once and never flirted with season record books. His consistency is also unmatched.

Now, I do think Ovechkin is the best goal-scorer ever whereas I don't think Aaron is necessarily better at hitting homeruns than Ruth was, but it's a pretty close comp.

 

[Machinehead]

AO is a great goal scorer, but from the time I started watching in the early 70s, I'd say Mike Bossy is pretty comfortably the best goal scorer I've seen. I'd probably also put Mario Lemieux above AO. I'd put AO in a hair lower tier with Gretzky and maybe Pavel Bure. But the top guy for me, no doubt about it, is Mike Bossy. Those three playoffs in a row where Bossy was almost a goal a game (51 goals in 56 playoff games during three Cup wins) is insane in any era.

Genuinely curious: what's the argument for Bossy when Gretzky scored way more goals playing at exactly the same time?

 

[Boris Zubov]

And literally no one who isn't a jackass is claiming he's the best player in history. He probably isnt top 5. I'd probably go

Gretz
Lemieux
Orr
Hasek
McDavid
Crosby


Ovechkin is probably in that 6-10 tier with Bourque, Howe, Jagr, Roy. That's good company. He's ahead of Yzerman, Sakic, Hull, Messier.


He's just the best power forward of all time, best winger, and probably best pure goal scorer (Overall, not at peak 5 years of career)

IDK what the sporting analogy would be. Best home run hitter in baseball I guess. Ted Williams vs Honus Wagner. No one thinks Williams is better overall.

Your baseball analogy is a weird one. Having never seen either play, & playing in completely different eras, It's impossible to compare Wagner & Williams fairly, but strictly looking at the stats Williams shits on Wagner & was one of very few guys with 500+ homers when he retired.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Gretzky is overlooked as a goal-scorer because he slowed down in the 90's.

Prime Gretzky averaged 70 a year. Nobody has come close to it since, and nobody was doing it then, so you can't say it was because of the era. He had 637 goals from 1979-1989. Bossy was 117 behind him. Nobody else had 500.

I think it could be argued that Gretzky just didn't age particularly well so he just became Connor McDavid the second half of his career instead of two Connor McDavid's, but his goal-scoring peak is still unmatched.

Ovechkin has him beat on longevity.

Their careers have been roughly the same length, but Ovie has been way more productive in the 2nd half of his career, goal scoring wise. He consistently has been in the 40-50 range where Gretz dropped down into the 20s & 30s before coming here where he was in the low 20s & then his final year with 9.

 

[Fitzy]

Your baseball analogy is a weird one. Having never seen either play, & playing in completely different eras, It's impossible to compare Wagner & Williams fairly, but strictly looking at the stats Williams shits on Wagner & was one of very few guys with 500+ homers when he retired.

Yeah I'm not a baseball expert at all.

I'm just going based on the old strat-o-matic board game, which was super, super fun and I crushed it with single-hitters and base stealers.

Here's another controversial statement- Lidstrom couldn't hold Bourque or Orr's jock strap despite his 7 Norris trophies.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Othmann is really bad. His value is zilch

He might have minimal value but I think he will be ok. I wouldn’t hesitate putting Smith back in for him if he’s still with us, or CK if he can go.

 

[TheWrongWay]

Gretzky is overlooked as a goal-scorer because he slowed down in the 90's.

Prime Gretzky averaged 70 a year. Nobody has come close to it since, and nobody was doing it then, so you can't say it was because of the era. He had 637 goals from 1979-1989. Bossy was 117 behind him. Nobody else had 500.

I think it could be argued that Gretzky just didn't age particularly well so he just became Connor McDavid the second half of his career instead of two Connor McDavid's, but his goal-scoring peak is still unmatched.

Ovechkin has him beat on longevity.

Having seen his entire career, I think it was more that he was for a while playing against the weakest teams in the league, in a much weaker conference, and in a division, especially early on, where Edmonton was often the only Smythe division playoff team of the four who even had a winning record. Not shitting on 99, but the weak ass level of competition is a thing. Bossy played against much more difficult opposition, who was routinely trying to cripple him and was as good as they come at putting the puck in the net.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Having seen his entire career, I think it was more that he was for a while playing against the weakest teams in the league, in a much weaker conference, and in a division, especially early on, where Edmonton was often the only Smythe division playoff team of the four who even had a winning record. Not shitting on 99, but the weak ass level of competition is a thing. Bossy played against much more difficult opposition, who was routinely trying to cripple him and was as good as they come at putting the puck in the net.

They did cripple him, which is why he retired at 30 with back issues. I hated that team, but as a fan of the sport one had to appreciate Bossy as a player. He was the only one I didn't loathe.

 

[The S5]

Genuinely curious: what's the argument for Bossy when Gretzky scored way more goals playing at exactly the same time?

There is none. It's a silly premise.

 

[TheWrongWay]

Genuinely curious: what's the argument for Bossy when Gretzky scored way more goals playing at exactly the same time?

I covered it in a prior response. I will say this. Bossy is my opinion. Anyone could make a valid argument for Gretzky or AO, and even Lemieux was top-end af as a goal scorer, and that's all good with me. I am not saying you're wrong, simply stating my personal preference. This is seriously hair-splitting type stuff and falls back to personal preference.

 

[Fitzy]

There is none. It's a silly premise.

I think some people have theorized that Bossy could have hit 900 if he playued a full career. I think that was a more fun discussion back wehn we thought it was impossible in the modern era.

I doubt it, but it's possible he could have if he somehow aged beautifully but scoring would have started to drop for him.

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah I'm not a baseball expert at all.

I'm just going based on the old strat-o-matic board game, which was super, super fun and I crushed it with single-hitters and base stealers.

Here's another controversial statement- Lidstrom couldn't hold Bourque or Orr's jock strap despite his 7 Norris trophies.

I don't disagree.

I think the three he won at his peak are about right.

He won Norrises 4, 5, and 6 in a deep valley for defensemen. Who was gonna win it? Pronger I guess? Dan Boyle? Dion Phaneuf was a finalist one of those years.

And then he won Norris #7 because it was just kind of cool that he scored 60 points at 40 years old even though Chara and Weber were better players at that point.

 

[UnparalledPark]

How is 26 shots on goal in 40 games even possible?

My favorite player has 4 assists in 48 games, so I’ll pass on this one.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

He might have minimal value but I think he will be ok. I wouldn’t hesitate putting Smith back in for him if he’s still with us, or CK if he can go.

Agreed. Smith >> Othmann. If the best we are getting for Smith is a 3rd, I 100% keep him

 

[Kravtsov420]

i need othmann to start stirring more shit

Lavi the tugboat will just bench him so he’s afraid

 

[duhmetreE]

What Othmann is supoosed to be. It's early in his stint, I'm sure he will be pulling the trigger more soon.

The team struggles to set up one timers

He’s has a couple good looks but nothing is generated by design with this team

---

I think we did fine yesterday considering we’re missing Fox and played 3 in 4. Washington is a big heavy team.

Our PP was atrocious and most likely cost us another point. That double minor PP was as bad as it gets.

 

[TheWrongWay]

I think some people have theorized that Bossy could have hit 900 if he playued a full career. I think that was a more fun discussion back wehn we thought it was impossible in the modern era.

I doubt it, but it's possible he could have if he somehow aged beautifully but scoring would have started to drop for him.

I am not sure Bossy gets near 900. It was such a different game back then that there was no surety of longevity for any player. I was like a week ago watching an old Islanders-Habs playoff game from 1984. Bob Gainey had his head, and little else, driven into the boards. Slashes, high sticks, elbows. Nasty game, like many playoff games back then. Mtl was like 1 for 10 on the PP if that's any indication of how many penalties there were. Longevity was not easy back then. That said, I'll always be mystified that Gordie Howe played 80 games at age 51 and was also over .5 ppg that season.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I'm not blaming Mika but I do want to address the notion that you have to be ahead of a defender to shoot. Goal scorers with confidence in their shots will often use the defender to screen the goalie. When a defender is reaching with his stick there is a lot of room between his body and stick blade to shoot through. Just my two cents. Not a critique of Mika. In my opinion Mika tried to win the game with the pass and it didn't work out. I'm okay with that but I would like to see the tape again. I say that because Im curious if the Ranger on Wilson was there in time to do something, got out muscled, or didn't have enough time to get back. My first recollection was the Ranger (Mika? ) was there but I don't trust my memory.

 

[UnparalledPark]

LOLing that last night was "personal" for Charlie Lindgren coming from the Caps locker room. #TheWarrior mustve been whining to big bro about his unfair treatment with the Rangers. So glad these malcontents who want to be rewarded for not doing their jobs are gone.

Do you have respect for any player that has been on this team for over 1 year. Man you’re brutal. LOL