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Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

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Tavares isnt waiving his bajamas-nmc to play in a non contender for one year.

im up for trading a goalie for offence though. Goalies get hot and not. Kuemper might take his starter role back next season. I like Stevenson/Shepard sharing as a back-up for 25-30ish games next year. Go for it, trade the one that makes most sense return-wise.
 
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usiel said:
All I know is that to help Ovie getting the record that their needs to be better team speed on the front and backend.
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They need speed and youth regardless of the record. Something tells me Ovi does not want to be hitting 895 on a bottom feeder team.

Best thing management could do is use cap space and assets to assemble a competitive team for the next 2-3 years. They have the means to do it. Now lets see if GMBM will continue to be frugal with their space and assets or if they will finally make some meaningful moves.

With team success the record will come naturally. This season alone showed how much Ovi was into it when they were fighting for the playoffs. Without team success, this will be a very painful couple of years and good chance without the record.

I hope management does not waist these next few years. This year, the way the team was constructed even before the puck dropped, it was an abomination and a huge failure from the beginning.
 
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Lindgren, Dowd are my trade chips in a Marner deal along with picks (#17, 2nd, 3rd, etc) and maybe Jensen or TvR if they had interest in a RHD

-Toronto fills key positions with cheap contracts for a run this year
-Toronto opens up cap space to target whoever they want (Stamkos? Matt Roy? Whoever)

I think it’s not that far fetched when you layer in the teams that can absorb Marners current cap, his next cap, and his NMC that they move him for picks and decent value contracts. I’d even consider Cristall if that’s what it came down to
 


Ehlers has been mentioned a bunch here, so more evidence that he should be available in a trade. He'd be a great addition but there could be a lot of competition for his services.
 
From what I've heard from some people in the know, there's no way Tavares waives his NMC. It's more likely he stays and then re-signs at a lower cap number tbh.

As for Pacioretty, he wanted to go to Florida but once they acquired Tarasenko they moved off him and he didn't want to waive for New York.
 
bacchist said:
We apparently signed to a deal that prevented us from moving him at the trade deadline, which took me by surprise. I wouldn't put it past them to trade for a guy who will just walk at the end of his contract.
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I feel like the NMC was more about Pacioretty having control of where he went. As part of the reason to take the deal in DC. I think both parties visioned him being traded if he was playing well.
 
crazy8888 said:
They need speed and youth regardless of the record. Something tells me Ovi does not want to be hitting 895 on a bottom feeder team.

Best thing management could do is use cap space and assets to assemble a competitive team for the next 2-3 years. They have the means to do it. Now lets see if GMBM will continue to be frugal with their space and assets or if they will finally make some meaningful moves.

With team success the record will come naturally. This season alone showed how much Ovi was into it when they were fighting for the playoffs. Without team success, this will be a very painful couple of years and good chance without the record.

I hope management does not waist these next few years. This year, the way the team was constructed even before the puck dropped, it was an abomination and a huge failure from the beginning.
Click to expand...
GMBM has had to be frugal. Last time he had real space he signed Orpik and Niskenen. But he has been handcuffed for years.

This year is different. Caps have draft capital, prospects, and cap space. GMBM can be aggressive and I suspect he will. Lots of options and teams that want to shake up rosters or dump contracts and few can take them which means we can force others to make frugal deals.

My guess is they have a top 1, 2, and 3 and they will go aggressively for quick moves. The smaller adds will come later when prices drop. And Miro making a case to be in the top 12.
 
DWGie26 said:
GMBM has had to be frugal. Last time he had real space he signed Orpik and Niskenen. But he has been handcuffed for years.

This year is different. Caps have draft capital, prospects, and cap space. GMBM can be aggressive and I suspect he will. Lots of options and teams that want to shake up rosters or dump contracts and few can take them which means we can force others to make frugal deals.

My guess is they have a top 1, 2, and 3 and they will go aggressively for quick moves. The smaller adds will come later when prices drop. And Miro making a case to be in the top 12.
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It's weird that many of the people who have been complaining about the GM for years are now talking as though he was simply being cheap or frugal or making meaningless moves.

That's not what GMBM has done, at all. He's gone for it pretty much each and every year and has had no cap space to work with as a result (and in some cases limited draft picks due to all the moves that were made).

I feel like some of these fans just got into that groove when McPhee was here and never let go of the mindset.

Imagine what might have happened if Lundqvist hadn't found that heart problem right before the season started. We were stuck with Vanacek and Samsonov for a few of the last window years for the Cup core. Do they blame GMBM for Hank's unforseen medical problems?

Going out and getting Kuemper was a bold move in response. He hasn't been great but it wasn't "frugal" or timid. Then when these big splash chances don't work out for various reasons he still gets blamed.

I don't get it. The internet seems like it's just a digital complaint box with porn to distract you while you wait in line.

Ok maybe I do get it.
 
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DWGie26 said:
GMBM has had to be frugal. Last time he had real space he signed Orpik and Niskenen. But he has been handcuffed for years.

This year is different. Caps have draft capital, prospects, and cap space. GMBM can be aggressive and I suspect he will. Lots of options and teams that want to shake up rosters or dump contracts and few can take them which means we can force others to make frugal deals.

My guess is they have a top 1, 2, and 3 and they will go aggressively for quick moves. The smaller adds will come later when prices drop. And Miro making a case to be in the top 12.
Click to expand...
After Backstrom was signed to that ridiculous contract, i agree, between him and Ovi's salary cap space has been hard to come by. As far as trades and player acquisitions go, yea without a doubt i think that management has been frugal at the very least. What is the biggest trade that they made in the last 5 years? I reckon its got to be the Sandin trade right? Wow, they actually gave a first round pick (albeit one of two they had that year). Other than that its been been mostly a long list of past their prime players, in some cases signing injured players that were not even going to be on the roster when the season opened.

In 2019 they kept the team together to defend the cup. I respect that. After 2019 it has been a shit show. They have been doing patch work ever since.

Look, im not screaming to trade every first round pick. Im not saying they should have signed most coveted free agent every year. What im saying is when i look at the last 5 years, i fail to see many meaningful moves that they made to make the team stronger.

I like our GM. I really like how honest and up front he is when he speak to the media. He does what he says, and frankly that scares the hell out of me. Judging by this years interviews it does not seem like they are planning to be all in in the next few years. Sure he is right that its not fair that Ovi is expected to carry the offense at 39. And i fully expect them to acquire 1 or 2 younger players to help on offense. Beyond that though, sounds like we will be hearing cap space excuses for the foreseeable future.
 
crazy8888 said:
After Backstrom was signed to that ridiculous contract, i agree, between him and Ovi's salary cap space has been hard to come by. As far as trades and player acquisitions go, yea without a doubt i think that management has been frugal at the very least. What is the biggest trade that they made in the last 5 years? I reckon its got to be the Sandin trade right? Wow, they actually gave a first round pick (albeit one of two they had that year). Other than that its been been mostly a long list of past their prime players, in some cases signing injured players that were not even going to be on the roster when the season opened.

In 2019 they kept the team together to defend the cup. I respect that. After 2019 it has been a shit show. They have been doing patch work ever since.

Look, im not screaming to trade every first round pick. Im not saying they should have signed most coveted free agent every year. What im saying is when i look at the last 5 years, i fail to see many meaningful moves that they made to make the team stronger.

I like our GM. I really like how honest and up front he is when he speak to the media. He does what he says, and frankly that scares the hell out of me. Judging by this years interviews it does not seem like they are planning to be all in in the next few years. Sure he is right that its not fair that Ovi is expected to carry the offense at 39. And i fully expect them to acquire 1 or 2 younger players to help on offense. Beyond that though, sounds like we will be hearing cap space excuses for the foreseeable future.
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The biggest move since the cup was the Mantha trade in '21. Next biggest was probably signing Kuemper in '22, when he was the consensus best goalie on the market. The Connor Brown trade was also that summer. They mostly haven't worked out aside from guys who seemed like minor pieces at the time (Strome, Milano, Dowd, Jensen, TVR), but MacLellan's made plenty of additions since '18 with very little room to work with.

I don't know how you can call cap space an "excuse" when there's a hard cap and the Caps have been right up against it every year? It's just a reality of the NHL. If you don't have room to make big acquisitions, you can't make big acquisitions (unless your injured players are willing to work with you to game the system). What exactly were you expecting MacLellan to do?
 
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crazy8888 said:
After Backstrom was signed to that ridiculous contract, i agree, between him and Ovi's salary cap space has been hard to come by. As far as trades and player acquisitions go, yea without a doubt i think that management has been frugal at the very least. What is the biggest trade that they made in the last 5 years? I reckon its got to be the Sandin trade right? Wow, they actually gave a first round pick (albeit one of two they had that year). Other than that its been been mostly a long list of past their prime players, in some cases signing injured players that were not even going to be on the roster when the season opened.

In 2019 they kept the team together to defend the cup. I respect that. After 2019 it has been a shit show. They have been doing patch work ever since.

Look, im not screaming to trade every first round pick. Im not saying they should have signed most coveted free agent every year. What im saying is when i look at the last 5 years, i fail to see many meaningful moves that they made to make the team stronger.

I like our GM. I really like how honest and up front he is when he speak to the media. He does what he says, and frankly that scares the hell out of me. Judging by this years interviews it does not seem like they are planning to be all in in the next few years. Sure he is right that its not fair that Ovi is expected to carry the offense at 39. And i fully expect them to acquire 1 or 2 younger players to help on offense. Beyond that though, sounds like we will be hearing cap space excuses for the foreseeable future.
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Cap space (and assets) are everything. Who would have guess Connor Brown would tear up his knee. And that Backstrom hip would give out. And Kuzy would stop caring. Thank Hank would have a heart problem. And Mantha would suck. I mean come on. Look around the league at all the other failed players and stupid moves by GM’s. Caps and GMBM have been great all things considered.

And then when GMBM stated he wanted to make changes at goalies he signed the best available and took a chance on a goalie who never had a one way contract. He wanted to upgrade top 6 but couldn’t trade Kuzy or Mantha because nobody wanted them and with no cap space he had to grab another reclamation project in Patches. Just like Strome, Milano, and even NAK.

The issue is you expect perfection. It doesn’t work that way in hockey. Gambles are risky. The other thing that doesn’t work is one-way deals. You need to have a partner that wants to dance. Moves that don’t happen doesn’t mean we weren’t interested. We just couldn’t find a deal that worked for us.

This year is different. We have cap space. Tradeable assets. Draft collateral. Even then, GMBM has to be careful with the contracts he signs because Leonard is a year out. Miro is right on doorstep. We have a bunch of players who are 1-3 years away with potential. So don’t expect him to sign 4-5 players. maybe 1 or 2. Plus maybe a hockey trade. I suspect that one may be an older vet on a one-year deal to give us flexibility in signings next year. We’ll see but it will be a different offseason from the last 5.
 
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DWGie26 said:
Cap space (and assets) are everything. Who would have guess Connor Brown would tear up his knee. And that Backstrom hip would give out. And Kuzy would stop caring. Thank Hank would have a heart problem. And Mantha would suck. I mean come on. Look around the league at all the other failed players and stupid moves by GM’s. Caps and GMBM have been great all things considered.

And then when GMBM stated he wanted to make changes at goalies he signed the best available and took a chance on a goalie who never had a one way contract. He wanted to upgrade top 6 but couldn’t trade Kuzy or Mantha because nobody wanted them and with no cap space he had to grab another reclamation project in Patches. Just like Strome, Milano, and even NAK.

The issue is you expect perfection. It doesn’t work that way in hockey. Gambles are risky. The other thing that doesn’t work is one-way deals. You need to have a partner that wants to dance. Moves that don’t happen doesn’t mean we weren’t interested. We just couldn’t find a deal that worked for us.

This year is different. We have cap space. Tradeable assets. Draft collateral. Even then, GMBM has to be careful with the contracts he signs because Leonard is a year out. Miro is right on doorstep. We have a bunch of players who are 1-3 years away with potential. So don’t expect him to sign 4-5 players. maybe 1 or 2. Plus maybe a hockey trade. I suspect that one may be an older vet on a one-year deal to give us flexibility in signings next year. We’ll see but it will be a different offseason from the last 5.
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I agree that Backstrom and Kuzy situations were not completely predictable and do not blame GM for how that worked out. I suspect Backstrom contract in particular was forced by ownership. GM said himself that Backstrom's contract was "nostalgic", think we all know what that means.

I also have no issue withe Brown and Manthan trades. Sucks that Brown got injured and Mantha definitely had a lot of potential when he came here. Plus they were able to move Vrana in that trade. Not sure why you put Lundqvist signing on this list. He was what 38-39? You really think that even with a healthy heart he would be much of a difference maker? I mean sure he is a legend but come on. He was way past his prime.

I think the reason why we do not see eye to eye here is because we may be looking differently at the big picture. I could be wrong but what you said, it appears to me that you are more content and patient, possibly looking at this from the long run perspective. So with that approach i understand the reasoning behind defending GM and being content with lack of major moves to reshuffle the roster.

Me on the other hand, i'm mostly looking at right now and not being too concerned about what will happened 2-5 years from now. I want to see them compete one more time before Ovi retires more than i want to see 895. 2018 was some of the most fun that i had watching hockey since i started in 2000.

I hope you are right and this summer will be different. I hope the young guys on this team continue to develop. And i hope that they do use said cap space and assets to make some meaningful changes. I hope whichever vet they do sign is not injured and can play when the season starts. Most of all, i just want to see a team that is not expected to be a bottom feeder before the puck even drops.
 
I did this for a Tavares post on the main boards that never got made, but the Backstrom contract could've been worked around much easier if not for the pandemic.

18-1979.518-1979.5
19-2081.52.52%19-2081.52.52%
20-2181.50.00%20-2183.52.50%
21-2281.50.00%21-2287.75.00%
22-2382.51.23%22-2392.15.00%
23-2483.51.21%23-2496.75.00%
24-2587.75.03%24-25101.55.00%
25-26924.90%25-26106.65.00%

Backstrom signed the deal basically 6 weeks before everything got disrupted. The new US TV deal was signed for the 21-22 season, and instead of jumping the salary cap immediately, all the extra revenue went to backfill the previous seasons. Backstrom was fine the first year of his new deal, the pandemic-shortened season of 20-21, and it became clear the injury was affecting him after the 21-22 season. Instead of having 1 million extra to finagle something from 22-23, Mac would've had 10 million. Even then, he got Dylan Strome, which is probably a top 5 percentile response to that hole.

Incidentally, the thrust of the Tavares post was much the same, that the Leafs would've been able to build around their top-heavy structure because the increasing salary cap would let them pay their depth, but the pandemic cut off that salary cap growth, and MacLellan's had the same sort of issues. He's wanted an extra top 6 guy for the past couple of years, but no cap increases meant he had to acquire that player with assets, not with cap space - and the cycle of competition left him short of assets.
 
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crazy8888 said:
I agree that Backstrom and Kuzy situations were not completely predictable and do not blame GM for how that worked out. I suspect Backstrom contract in particular was forced by ownership. GM said himself that Backstrom's contract was "nostalgic", think we all know what that means.

I also have no issue withe Brown and Manthan trades. Sucks that Brown got injured and Mantha definitely had a lot of potential when he came here. Plus they were able to move Vrana in that trade. Not sure why you put Lundqvist signing on this list. He was what 38-39? You really think that even with a healthy heart he would be much of a difference maker? I mean sure he is a legend but come on. He was way past his prime.

I think the reason why we do not see eye to eye here is because we may be looking differently at the big picture. I could be wrong but what you said, it appears to me that you are more content and patient, possibly looking at this from the long run perspective. So with that approach i understand the reasoning behind defending GM and being content with lack of major moves to reshuffle the roster.

Me on the other hand, i'm mostly looking at right now and not being too concerned about what will happened 2-5 years from now. I want to see them compete one more time before Ovi retires more than i want to see 895. 2018 was some of the most fun that i had watching hockey since i started in 2000.

I hope you are right and this summer will be different. I hope the young guys on this team continue to develop. And i hope that they do use said cap space and assets to make some meaningful changes. I hope whichever vet they do sign is not injured and can play when the season starts. Most of all, i just want to see a team that is not expected to be a bottom feeder before the puck even drops.
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Fair points. And yes, I do tend to look at things from a GM view. The business of hockey fascinates me because it is such a difficult puzzle to put together. have to think about contract length, cap hit, pathing players, etc. But the business of hockey is all about winning. It’s just not a “win at all costs every year” type of game. Like chess, you have to make a lot of moves to position yourself for checkmate.

I do want to be cup competitive all the time, and particularly in the next couple of years. I think Caps can do that next year by picking up 1 or 2 pieces. I’d like to see 2 forwards. A young 30 goal scorer like Necas and perhaps an older scorer (like but not Patches). And then a hockey trade for a RD coming in and Jensen or TVR going out. That doesn’t get us to Cup Contender but it does make us Cup Competitive. And once in, anything can happen.
 
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