Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

[traparatus]

The cap space at the deadline is a game changer. Especially if we are sellers.

No need to rush anything.

If you wouldn't mind giving Brian a quick ring and reminding him of this, that would be appreciated.

 

[traparatus]

Still under. They have nothing to trade him for, and it's not like they can sign him. To the best of my knowledge LTIR is an inseason thing, so you can't really just sign free agents to take taht cap space up.

You can go over the cap in the offseason, so it all works.

 

[trick9]

Curious to see how/if BMac utilizes the newly found cap space. What's the over/under on Elias Lindholm joining the Caps on a shiny new 7 year, $8m per contract?

Yikes.

Nightmare scenario.

 

[Calicaps]

Not surprising. LTIR is certainly the next step. I doubt he ever comes off it or retires and gives up his salary, but you never know.

Ted may just pay him to stay on LTIR and not retire, as a thank you payment for services rendered at arguably below market value for so many years.

I assume that's cap-legal.

This is 100% where it's all headed. And then after his contract expires, he'll return to see his 19 lifted to the rafters.

Also, I find it bizarre that anyone thinks he wouldn't be in the HOF sooner than later, once eligible. He's top 3 in points over his career IINM, played 1,000+ games, scored 1,000+ points, and has his name on the Cup. Yeah, no individual awards and never an all-star but so what. He's a lock, IMO, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a first-ballot case, but I guess that would depend who else was in the eligible class.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Sucks on all levels - he hasn't been himself, obviously, but absolutely a cornerstone of the franchise.

All the best, Nick. Class act and Stanley Cup champion.

Now somebody tell me the cap ramifications of this.

Indeed. Age and injuries hit us all and any career that is focused on fitness and health is a dramatic shift. No matter what he’ll always be a Caps hero.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Yikes.

Nightmare scenario.

Yup. The absolute last thing this team needs is another long term contract for an aging player hitting UFA looking to get paid. Nylander and Pettersson are probably the only two UFA/RFA guys I’d back the Brinks truck up for.

 

[Calicaps]

Curious to see how/if BMac utilizes the newly found cap space. What's the over/under on Elias Lindholm joining the Caps on a shiny new 7 year, $8m per contract?

 

[Raikkonen]

Well, big day. Thank you, Nicklas!

Concerning the roster that's a step in the right direction. Has to be. Now Oshie and Phillips aren't that much better than Miro, what do you think? I want Carbery to find good 2RW for Kuzy. Maybe he should try Mantha extensively first, then someone else.

Maybe call up NAK and move Protas up a bit. There has to be a solution. I dont notice MP mostly, and I notice Oshie but almost always its in a bad way. Pacioretty is not a given, they need to try something else for now.


PS: Where this team would be now if not for Carlson? Who should have been traded long ago according to some here.

PPS: Wilson, who should not have been resigned (according to the same sources) is getting in the rear mirror too.

PPPS: Solid top-15 draft finish in the end probably. The whole roster is not that good.

 

[Jags]

just not worth the insane contract he was gifted by 100% earned from the team.

Minor correction.

 

[Kalopsia]

This is 100% where it's all headed. And then after his contract expires, he'll return to see his 19 lifted to the rafters.

Also, I find it bizarre that anyone thinks he wouldn't be in the HOF sooner than later, once eligible. He's top 3 in points over his career IINM, played 1,000+ games, scored 1,000+ points, and has his name on the Cup. Yeah, no individual awards and never an all-star but so what. He's a lock, IMO, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a first-ballot case, but I guess that would depend who else was in the eligible class.

I'd love for you to be right, but you can look through the list of NHL career points leaders and see a lot players just over the 1000 games and 1000 points thresholds with their names on the cup who aren't in the HoF. Doug Weight, Pat Verbeek, Bobby Smith, Ray Whitney, and Theo Fleury all have as many or more points as Backstrom, 1000+ games, and a Cup, and aren't in the Hall. The post-O6 guys in that points range who are in the Hall have 3+ Cups (Joe Mullen, Glenn Anderson), individual hardware (Sedin twins, Martin St. Louis, Brian Leetch), or both (Denis Potvin). The closest comp to Backstrom who's in the Hall is Lanny McDonald, but he reached 500 goals, won a Masterton and a Clancy, and was a 2-time All Star, in addition to the 1000 points and the Cup. There's also Paul Kariya who didn't win a Cup and didn't quite reach 1000 games or points, but he reached 400 goals, won the Byng twice, and was a 5-time All Star. I won't rule it out for Backstrom, but if he's really done it feels to me like a longshot.

 

[Raikkonen]

Btw, we could use a player like Johansson right about now. Tell me again, why did we send him to Minny last time?

 

[Hivemind]

Also, I find it bizarre that anyone thinks he wouldn't be in the HOF sooner than later, once eligible. He's top 3 in points over his career IINM, played 1,000+ games, scored 1,000+ points, and has his name on the Cup. Yeah, no individual awards and never an all-star but so what. He's a lock, IMO, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a first-ballot case, but I guess that would depend who else was in the eligible class.

Alexander Mogilny played in 990 games, scored 1032 points, has his name on the Cup, is a member of the "triple gold club," was a second team All-Star twice (to Backstrom's 0), was named to the All Star Game six times (to Backstrom's 1), had 2x 100 point seasons (to Backstrom's 1), led the league in goals in 1993 (tied with Selanne), and won 1x Lady Byng Trophy.
Alexander Mogilny isn't in the Hall of Fame.

1000+ points is far from a HoF guarantee. Heck, there's guys with 1200+ career points who have been held out due to a lack of individual honors. Vincent Damphouse, Bernie Nicholls, and Jeremy Roenick all fit that bill. There's a lot more in that <1100 point range who aren't in the Hall. Doug Weight (who's tied with Backstrom in career points), Keith Tkachuk, Ray Whitney, Pat Verbeek, Theo Fleury, Dave Taylor, etc.

 

[zappa4ever]

re: Dowd
saw Carbery's presser on NB19 and in response to Dowd's return:
He's not skating yet

so several days at min, thought he was closer
bummer

 

[Portable Mink]

I love you Nicky. A true true gentleman and perfect human.

 

[kicksavedave]

Is this not CMM to 3C and find a new wing somewhere?

 

[Todd Lazarchick]

This has to free up BMac to make his trade for a top 6 wing right?

 

[aonb]

i'm sad now and i don't give a single **** about trades

 

[YippieKaey]

Doesn't this just create cap space for Pacioretty? Can we really hope for a shiny new player?

 

[Calicaps]

I'd love for you to be right, but you can look through the list of NHL career points leaders and see a lot players just over the 1000 games and 1000 points thresholds with their names on the cup who aren't in the HoF. Doug Weight, Pat Verbeek, Bobby Smith, Ray Whitney, and Theo Fleury all have as many or more points as Backstrom, 1000+ games, and a Cup, and aren't in the Hall. The post-O6 guys in that points range who are in the Hall have 3+ Cups (Joe Mullen, Glenn Anderson), individual hardware (Sedin twins, Martin St. Louis, Brian Leetch), or both (Denis Potvin). The closest comp to Backstrom who's in the Hall is Lanny McDonald, but he reached 500 goals, won a Masterton and a Clancy, and was a 2-time All Star, in addition to the 1000 points and the Cup. There's also Paul Kariya who didn't win a Cup and didn't quite reach 1000 games or points, but he reached 400 goals, won the Byng twice, and was a 5-time All Star. I won't rule it out for Backstrom, but if he's really done it feels to me like a longshot.

Alexander Mogilny played in 990 games, scored 1032 points, has his name on the Cup, is a member of the "triple gold club," was a second team All-Star twice (to Backstrom's 0), was named to the All Star Game six times (to Backstrom's 1), had 2x 100 point seasons (to Backstrom's 1), led the league in goals in 1993 (tied with Selanne), and won 1x Lady Byng Trophy.
Alexander Mogilny isn't in the Hall of Fame.

1000+ points is far from a HoF guarantee. Heck, there's guys with 1200+ career points who have been held out due to a lack of individual honors. Vincent Damphouse, Bernie Nicholls, and Jeremy Roenick all fit that bill. There's a lot more in that <1100 point range who aren't in the Hall. Doug Weight (who's tied with Backstrom in career points), Keith Tkachuk, Ray Whitney, Pat Verbeek, Theo Fleury, Dave Taylor, etc.

On any team not in Pitt of DC he's the franchise player in this era. None of htose guys you've listed fit tat bill, except maybe St. Louis. Plus also Friedman said he's a lock. So I'm sticking to my guns.

 

[HTFN]

Alexander Mogilny played in 990 games, scored 1032 points, has his name on the Cup, is a member of the "triple gold club," was a second team All-Star twice (to Backstrom's 0), was named to the All Star Game six times (to Backstrom's 1), had 2x 100 point seasons (to Backstrom's 1), led the league in goals in 1993 (tied with Selanne), and won 1x Lady Byng Trophy.
Alexander Mogilny isn't in the Hall of Fame.

1000+ points is far from a HoF guarantee. Heck, there's guys with 1200+ career points who have been held out due to a lack of individual honors. Vincent Damphouse, Bernie Nicholls, and Jeremy Roenick all fit that bill. There's a lot more in that <1100 point range who aren't in the Hall. Doug Weight (who's tied with Backstrom in career points), Keith Tkachuk, Ray Whitney, Pat Verbeek, Theo Fleury, Dave Taylor, etc.

Feels like we're discussing the wrong part of it here.

Career points are nice milestones and make it easy, but placement among your peers is what demonstrates elite talent and Backstrom is like... what, top 10 for the entirety of his time in the game or something? You can count the number of players who outproduced him on your digits, I know that.

If he's not getting in there are a lot of players so far in the last 20 or so years that shouldn't be either, and I don't think they're going to start playing it the MLB way where it's just like "you know what? This year it's none of you, suck it, you don't deserve to be in the cool guy club" because the writers are contrarian bitches all the time.

Once names we recognize as his contemporaries start getting picked off the list it probably shouldn't be very long before his gets called unless being overshadowed by the greatest goal scorer of all time when it comes to MVP voting and the like is that big of a deal.

I did some sniffing around and it seems like a lot of people are willing to put Getzlaf in the Hall, if you can do that you can't really ignore Backstrom.

 

[Hivemind]

On any team not in Pitt of DC he's the franchise player in this era. None of htose guys you've listed fit tat bill, except maybe St. Louis. Plus also Friedman said he's a lock. So I'm sticking to my guns.

That's rose-colored glasses on your part. I love Backstrom, but he's not a tier above many of the guys listed, and certainly not above Mogilny (who I think his exclusion from the Hall is absurd). Doug Weight was Edmonton's franchise player in the late 90s. Keith Tkachuk was the franchise player in Phoenix (and played second fiddle only to Selanne in Winnipeg before that franchise moved). Jeremy Roenick was definitely Chicago's franchise player in the early 90s, leading them in scoring several seasons in a row.

Backstrom is a great talent, but large chunks of the hockey world see him as second fiddle to Ovechkin. The same people who vote on the end of year awards, all-star teams, etc. are part of the Hall of Fame process, and Backstrom didn't get recognized with those accolades. He would basically only get a few pity votes from local writers. His best Selke finish was only 7th (2017). His best Lady Byng finish was only 15th (2020). He never once was named a first or second team All-Star in the end of season voting. Even at his very peak, he was still viewed as somewhere between the 4th and 10th best center in the league, clearly behind guys like Crosby, Malkin, Sedin (and eventually McDavid and Matthews). He wasn't even viewed as the clear cut best center in the 1st round of the 2006 draft, with Jonathan Toews receiving tons of hype during Chicago's peak years and Claude Giroux looking like he'll win the longevity battle (coming off a 79 point campaign last year and with another point/game start to this season).

I think it's possible he ends up in the Hall of Fame. There are some very clearly lesser players in there (Guy Carbonneau for example). But I don't think it's a slam dunk by any means. His resume just doesn't have anything that's going to push him over the edge as an easy inclusion.

Career points are nice milestones and make it easy, but placement among your peers is what demonstrates elite talent and Backstrom is like... what, top 10 for the entirety of his time in the game or something? You can count the number of players who outproduced him on your digits, I know that.

If he's not getting in there are a lot of players so far in the last 20 or so years that shouldn't be either, and I don't think they're going to start playing it the MLB way where it's just like "you know what? This year it's none of you, suck it, you don't deserve to be in the cool guy club" because the writers are contrarian bitches all the time.

Once names we recognize as his contemporaries start getting picked off the list it probably shouldn't be very long before his gets called unless being overshadowed by the greatest goal scorer of all time when it comes to MVP voting and the like is that big of a deal.

I did some sniffing around and it seems like a lot of people are willing to put Getzlaf in the Hall, if you can do that you can't really ignore Backstrom.

As I said in the response to Calicaps above, I just don't think the voters see him as clear cut above his peers as you seem to. It's not just MVP voting, but other awards he should have been contending for that he tended not to have a great finish. And HHoF voters definitely care about individual accolades.

Sure, if you look at stats from his rookie year until now he does well. But that's also a little disingenous, as shifting that frame of reference a year or two in either direction can alter the standings significantly. Starting it in 2006-07 does well for Backstrom (7th in the league in that stretch), but it puts someone at Tavares (2009-10 rookie) at a 3 year disadvantage, and also excludes the 125 point season that Joe Thornton had right before Backstrom enterred the league (or his 101 point performance in 2002-03). I don't think any of us would seriously argue that Backstrom is more worthy of the Hall than Joe Thornton. Plus guys like Tavares, Giroux, and Pavelski are all likely to pass Backstrom on that list this season.

I'm not sure Getzlaf gets in, either. But him being the undisputed face of his franchise, having a strong playoff performer reputation, and a 2nd place finish in the Hart voting in 2013-14 might give him an edge over Backstrom.

If you list out the top centers of this post-lockout to COVID era of hockey, Backstrom is fighting tooth and nail to just hang onto the top 5. He's definitely not a universal pick. Crosby, Malkin, Sedin, and Thornton are above him for sure. Kopitar has been quietly dominant for that same stretch of time, has Nicky beat on career stats, has one more Cup, and has 2x Selke's, 2x Byng's, and 1x Messier trophy. Bergeron was the Selke machine. Stamkos has better career stats, multiple Rockets, and more Cups. Toews has the team accolades, the Selke, the Smythe, the Messier, and was in that silly top 100 players of all time thing. And if someone like Giroux, Pavelski, or Tavares manages a Cup, it will be a lot harder to justify keeping Nicky above them as well. Is a guy who's viewed as, say, the 8th or 10th best center of his era really a Hall of Fame shoo-in?

 

[marcel snapshot]

Backstrom owned Giroux in 2016 playoffs and he and Tavares were their team leaderswhen they met in 2015.

 

[Capitals40]

We can't just spend all of the cap space room. What if Backy comes off of ltir? Docs clear him to play..then what? Yes it solves Patches cap room problem for now, but bmac can't just use all the cap space that is created

 

[Ridley Simon]

We can't just spend all of the cap space room. What if Backy comes off of ltir? Docs clear him to play..then what? Yes it solves Patches cap room problem for now, but bmac can't just use all the cap space that is created

If our #19 is already feeling it in his hip, 8 games (and training camp) into the season…..I’m not sure when you think he’s not going to feel it.

I am truly afraid the man is done. And GMBM thought so at the end of last season. He obviously thinks that now, again.

 

[pman25]

I don’t really care about the cap. We have a spot now for McMichael. That’s all I wanted really, for this season