Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

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AlexModvechkin8

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Mantha never plays in his preferred side (RW). We’ve always slotted him as an LW. Because weakness there.

Ovechkin - Strome - Wilson
Kuznetsov - Backstrom - Mantha
Milano - Eller - Oshie
MaJo - Protas - Hathaway

Dowd is hurt. But I’m missing someone…..??

Edit — it’s Sheary! Ugh. Where??
Seems insane to say this but Kuznetsov is the forward whose spot should be most tenuous while Dowd is out. Kuznetsov is not providing any finishing quality right now and he’s one of their worst defensive forwards. If they’re going to try and grind out wins then Kuznetsov really provides little value at the moment. He’s not good at the face off dot, he’s not helping the PP, he’s not scoring, and he’s a liability defensively. On a team who lacks finishing talent, benching one of their more creative offensive players seems counter intuitive but at the same time benching one of their leakier defensive forwards may be one of their better options.
 
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DWGie26

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Seems insane to say this but Kuznetsov is the forward whose spot should be most tenuous while Dowd is out. Kuznetsov is not providing any finishing quality right now and he’s one of their worst defensive forwards. If they’re going to try and grind out wins then Kuznetsov really provides little value at the moment. He’s not good at the face off dot, he’s not helping the PP, he’s not scoring, and he’s a liability defensively. On a team who lacks finishing talent, benching one of their more creative offensive players seems counter intuitive but at the same time benching one of their leakier defensive forwards may be one of their better options.
I’d move Kuzy to Wing. He can be a 5th center if needed. But down the middle Strome-Backstrom-McMichael-Dowd. Behind that you have protas, Lapiere, Sutter, Rybinski, and others. Backstrom needs to earn his 9.2M. If not we have options.

No, they haven't. That's entirely a new development under Laviolette in the past couple years. I've posted about this before, but basically the only other incident of a highly drafted Caps forward sticking around in another league for this long was Kuznetsov, and that's because he had a fat KHL contract. The Caps would have loved him in the NHL sooner.

Backstrom, Johansson, and Burakovsky all played 50+ NHL games during their age 19/20 seasons and were fixtures in the Caps playoffs those years. Vrana made his NHL debut at 20, and was a regular at 21.
It goes back well into the GMGM days.

Aside from rebuild in 2003-4 when they sold off Bondra, Kolzig, Kono, etc. And when they sucked for a long time Before late 90’s.
 

YippieKaey

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Of course you can never count on health in the NHL, especially with an older team. But Backstrom’s situation the past two years has been uncertain and difficult. And then this year, added to that, having your best under 30 player recovering from an ACL. Brown goes down in like game 3. And then Carlson’s freak injury - it’s been a lot.

So, the team has been starting behind the 8 ball is all I’m saying. Next year they have the potential to have their intended team from the outset, and won’t have this big mid-season change up that destroys chemistry. Sure, Oshie and others will probably miss time along the way - it’s a long NHL season and guys are old AF.

I see your point and they do have the potential for being injury free.

But they won't be. Even if they are the core of this team is either past their primes (Bäcky, Oshie, Ovi kind of) or just not playing great (Kuzy, Carlson defensively). Right now this team is being carried by it's depth and depth is important but the star players need to be in the drivers seat and apart from Ovi and maybe Carlson that's not the case.
 

Langway

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16. There’s also some interest in Ethen Frank, who won the AHL’s fastest skater competition this week. He’s with Hershey on a non-NHL contract, but there is word Washington wants to sign him and is expected to do so. If not, there would be others chasing him.
 

Brian23

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That's entirely a new development under Laviolette in the past couple years.
Hell, for a long time they were almost instantly graduating them to the NHL too. Wilson never saw the miners, and Burakovsky played like 10 games in the AHL total. If anything, both of them would have actually benefited with some seasoning. I'll never forget the first 4 years of Wilson and how he would have benefited mightily from playing big minutes in a lower league instead of the 10 minutes a night he was getting.

They started over cooking them probably with Lucas Johanssen, but that's at least semi understandable. They had a secure defensive core and he had injury issues. They then followed that up by drafting basically drafting only defense for the next two years (Geisser, Walfridsson, Maass, Alexeyev, Fehervary). The fact only one of those guys has graduated, and one is fighting with a 35 year old player who's only ever had the minimum contract is ridiculous.

It goes back well into the GMGM days.
This just isn't true. You can look for yourself, but high round picks were not spending very long in the AHL, especially after they'd graduated and played almost a full year in the majors.

 
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Hivemind

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It goes back well into the GMGM days.

Aside from rebuild in 2003-4 when they sold off Bondra, Kolzig, Kono, etc. And when they sucked for a long time Before late 90’s.
You're using the pre-Ovechkin era as your justification for that statement? 20+ years ago under a completely different management group? Really? Really?

Hell, and even then you have to go back to pre-2000 to make your statement true. Brian Sutherby was drafted in 2000, made his NHL debut in 2001-02 and was a full-timer in 2002-03. Kris Beech was drafted in 1999, made his NHL debut in 2000-01 and was traded to Pittsburgh for Jagr after that. Alex Semin, in the NHL as soon as they could get him from Russia (minus he brief trip back to Russia against the Caps' will after the lock-out). The closest you have is Eric Fehr, drafted in 2003 and didn't become a full-timer until 2008. But there was that whole NHL lock-out thing right after he was drafted which prevented him from playing in the NHL in 2004 (since there was no NHL), and he saw NHL action in each season after that (including playing in the 2007-08 NHL playoffs).

So your reputation for the Capitals slow cooking NHL prospects is based on what, Eric Fehr and then Jason Allison (1993 draft) before him? Sure seems relevant to their handling of prospects today... :biglaugh:

The reality is, until Laviolette, the Capitals have been very aggressive in their development of highly drafted forwards. Their 1st round picks usually get to the NHL quickly. There's the players I mentioned in my previous post, and also Tom Wilson who I somehow forgot. Have you blocked from your mind how he was rushed into the NHL?
 
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Hivemind

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They started over cooking them probably with Lucas Johanssen, but that's at least semi understandable. They had a secure defensive core and he had injury issues. They then followed that up by drafting basically drafting only defense for the next two years (Geisser, Walfridsson, Maass, Alexeyev, Fehervary). The fact only one of those guys has graduated, and one is fighting with a 35 year old player who's only ever had the minimum contract is ridiculous.
D are frequently developed a bit slower than forwards (in large part because there's only 6 D slots in the line-up as opposed to 12 F slots). And Lucas Johansen (also Alexeyev) had a string of injuries that derailed his development, which is the biggest reason he's stuck around forever.
 

Peeri

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What is this break they are having and why is it so much longer than some other teams? Terrible scheduling and you can see this even hurt the team because of lack of games for so long.
 

crazy8888

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What is this break they are having and why is it so much longer than some other teams? Terrible scheduling and you can see this even hurt the team because of lack of games for so long.
Pretty sure its by week combined with asw. If any team needs rest its the Caps. Break is a very good thing for these old farts. No like they were on a good roll before the break anyway.
 

um

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What is this break they are having and why is it so much longer than some other teams? Terrible scheduling and you can see this even hurt the team because of lack of games for so long.
every team gets a week off at some point.

Its the same for the Bruins who we play on Saturday.
 

Misery74

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Tough stretch of games coming up, we’ll see how motivated this bunch is.

We opted not to make a coaching change, which IMO, was a big mistake. To me, this means BMac and Laviolettes fates should be tied together. If we miss, Ted should clean house.

I do not believe this season ends with us in the postseason. Even if we do, Boston and Carolina will eat our lunch. This feels like a wasted season.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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Hell, for a long time they were almost instantly graduating them to the NHL too. Wilson never saw the miners, and Burakovsky played like 10 games in the AHL total. If anything, both of them would have actually benefited with some seasoning. I'll never forget the first 4 years of Wilson and how he would have benefited mightily from playing big minutes in a lower league instead of the 10 minutes a night he was getting.

They started over cooking them probably with Lucas Johanssen, but that's at least semi understandable. They had a secure defensive core and he had injury issues. They then followed that up by drafting basically drafting only defense for the next two years (Geisser, Walfridsson, Maass, Alexeyev, Fehervary). The fact only one of those guys has graduated, and one is fighting with a 35 year old player who's only ever had the minimum contract is ridiculous.


This just isn't true. You can look for yourself, but high round picks were not spending very long in the AHL, especially after they'd graduated and played almost a full year in the majors.

I’ll never forget when fans made up this notion…
 
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twabby

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I’ll never forget when fans made up this notion…

I'm with you here. I don't think Wilson was rushed into the NHL.

I would have liked him to have fought less as a young player but aside from that he acquitted himself very nicely to NHL play from the moment he started in the league, at least from a GAR perspective:

1675872190260.png


His rookie year was his worst, but still above replacement. After that he hasn't looked back. I seem to remember him forming a very good line in 2014-15 with Ovechkin and Backstrom, for instance. And I don't think that was a fluke. (edit: just looked it up and yes, the 8-19-43 line was a 60% xG line over 300+ minutes in 2014-15)

I think he's always been a good player, but his opportunities just increased as vets moved on. Justin Williams in particular blocked his path into the top 6 from 2015-17. Not that that was a bad acquisition, but without Williams I suspect Wilson would have broken out in a top 6 role in 2015-17 instead of 2018.
 

g00n

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Wilson not breaking out offensively until age 23/24 is perfectly normal for NHL players.

Caps fans were being inpatient with their young players... some things never change.

For JAGs, yes. But not usually for all-star RW1s picked in the first round. I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions but IMO as top talents often expected to slot right in, they tend to come out firing right away or go bust.
 

um

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For JAGs, yes. But not usually for all-star RW1s picked in the first round. I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions but IMO as top talents often expected to slot right in, they tend to come out firing right away or go bust.
All Star Tom Wilson!

lol
 

IafrateOvie34

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It crushes me when Caps give up on young players and not just during this generation. Then there was the issue of throwing the youngsters out too early.
 
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Brian23

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I’ll never forget when fans made up this notion…
There was no made up notion. They had a guy who they were envisioning as a top line player spending 3 years getting 4th line minutes plugging and prodding. He would have been much better served playing 20 minutes a night in a lower league his first two years instead of getting 7 and 10 minutes a night. I'm sure that second year where he got 14 games in the playoffs at 7 minutes was the actual secret sauce to his development.

Just cause it worked out doesn't mean it was smart. You judge the process, not the outcome when you review and their process with him was dumb.
 
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HTFN

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There was no made up notion. They had a guy who they were envisioning as a top line player spending 3 years getting 4th line minutes plugging and prodding. He would have been much better served playing 20 minutes a night in a lower league his first two years instead of getting 7 and 10 minutes a night. I'm sure that second year where he got 14 games in the playoffs at 7 minutes was the actual secret sauce to his development.

Just cause it worked out doesn't mean it was smart. You judge the process, not the outcome when you review and their process with him was dumb.
What? They hoped he could maybe turn a corner and be one with his tools, there was no guarantee that he would be. He was too big and too young to go anywhere but back to the CHL and they kept him up with the big boys since he was huge.

Wilson didn’t have some crazy high pedigree and I think they did the right thing there
 
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um

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Have you forgotten? It was only a year ago.
I have not forgotten Ovie's last minute replacement.

I haven't forgotten all star Dennis Wideman either.

Of course my favourite all star legend has to be John Scott!

There was no made up notion. They had a guy who they were envisioning as a top line player spending 3 years getting 4th line minutes plugging and prodding. He would have been much better served playing 20 minutes a night in a lower league his first two years instead of getting 7 and 10 minutes a night. I'm sure that second year where he got 14 games in the playoffs at 7 minutes was the actual secret sauce to his development.

Just cause it worked out doesn't mean it was smart. You judge the process, not the outcome when you review and their process with him was dumb.
The process leads to results. And I'm happy with the result.

There's nothing wrong with being a good 4th line player at age 21-22. Wilson's versatility up and down the lineup is what makes him so valuable.
 
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Ridley Simon

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There was no made up notion. They had a guy who they were envisioning as a top line player spending 3 years getting 4th line minutes plugging and prodding. He would have been much better served playing 20 minutes a night in a lower league his first two years instead of getting 7 and 10 minutes a night. I'm sure that second year where he got 14 games in the playoffs at 7 minutes was the actual secret sauce to his development.

Just cause it worked out doesn't mean it was smart. You judge the process, not the outcome when you review and their process with him was dumb.
Let’s not forget that they couldn’t send him to Hershey in year one. He’s a Canadian junior league draftee — he either went back to the Jr club or stayed in DC.

NO in between.

He proved he should be in the NHL that first year, so what … send him down in yr 2 bc fans think so?

I think it’s lot of revisionist history here. Candidly we cannot state with any certainty that him playing in Hershey in yr 2 would’ve been a “better” track for him and the type of player he is
 

Brian23

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Wilson didn’t have some crazy high pedigree and I think they did the right thing there
They traded Forsberg because they believed in his potential, they 100% had high level expectations of him.
He proved he should be in the NHL that first year, so what … send him down in yr 2 bc fans think so?
Yes, it 100% would have been the better play. Jack Hillen averaged more time on ice then Wilson did, he would have been much better served playing 20 minutes a night on the top line and the power play.
The process leads to results. And I'm happy with the result.
Which is the worst way to handle anything, especially when it comes to developing anything (persons, skills, etc.). You can do all the wrong things and still end up with a win. It'd still be asinine to do repeat it expecting the same results.

Judge. The. Process.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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There was no made up notion. They had a guy who they were envisioning as a top line player spending 3 years getting 4th line minutes plugging and prodding. He would have been much better served playing 20 minutes a night in a lower league his first two years instead of getting 7 and 10 minutes a night. I'm sure that second year where he got 14 games in the playoffs at 7 minutes was the actual secret sauce to his development.

Just cause it worked out doesn't mean it was smart. You judge the process, not the outcome when you review and their process with him was dumb.
Completely made up by a smaaaaall subsection of fans who thought they knew better and I’m totally judging the process and 100% think that was the right path for the individual.

He wasn’t going down to Jrs or the A to learn to dangle scrubs and fight wannabes trying to make a name for themselves.

Is Tom Wilson a much better and more offensively skilled NHLer today under your path? Not in my eyes….
 
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