Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021 Off-Season Pt. 1

[g00n]

Damn Kucherov has more than twice Bondra's playoff points and is 3-4 years from surpassing his career regular season numbers despite missing all of this season. Bondra didn't even clear 900 points in 17 years in the NHL

Gotta hand it, did not realize how pedestrian Bondra was by star player standards until this discussion

I know this is bait but I'll play.

You're cherry picking stats to fit your narrative.

Bondra had the misfortune of playing for the Capitals during the 90s when they were perpetual playoff chokers and had little offensive support. Compare the TB roster with the Caps rosters from the 90s and tell me where the assists for Bondra were going to come from, vs those for Kucherov.

Even so, looking at points per game in the regular season as a Cap Bondra was .86, and .49 goals per game. Kucherov is at 1.06 points per game but .43 goals per game. Bondra was the more prolific goal scorer by a slim margin, and Kucherov gets an extra assist every 5 games or so due to the strength of his teammates/line. Bondra scored playoff goals at a .41 per game clip while Kucherov's rate is .38.

Bondra was the main scoring threat on a Caps team that sorely needed a second offensive weapon. Even with defenses knowing this he still managed to put up crazy good goal numbers.

That was Bondra's job. Score goals. In an era that was hostile to his team and his talents.

So what this means is even with massive scoring advantages over Bondra, Kucherov scores less goals per game and adds one assist every 5 games.

Why don't you try again.

 

[txpd]

I know this is bait but I'll play.

You're cherry picking stats to fit your narrative.

Bondra had the misfortune of playing for the Capitals during the 90s when they were perpetual playoff chokers and had little offensive support. Compare the TB roster with the Caps rosters from the 90s and tell me where the assists for Bondra were going to come from, vs those for Kucherov.

Even so, looking at points per game in the regular season as a Cap Bondra was .86, and .49 goals per game. Kucherov is at 1.06 points per game but .43 goals per game. Bondra was the more prolific goal scorer by a slim margin, and Kucherov gets an extra assist every 5 games or so due to the strength of his teammates/line. Bondra scored playoff goals at a .41 per game clip while Kucherov's rate is .38.

Bondra was the main scoring threat on a Caps team that sorely needed a second offensive weapon. Even with defenses knowing this he still managed to put up crazy good goal numbers.

That was Bondra's job. Score goals. In an era that was hostile to his team and his talents.

So what this means is even with massive scoring advantages over Bondra, Kucherov scores less goals per game and adds one assist every 5 games.

Why don't you try again.

A quick check of the stats page shows that the season that Bondra scored 52 and 80pts in 67 games the top goal scorers below him were that offensive juggernaut Steve Konowalchuk(23) and Keith Jones(18). I mean....Keith Jones.

The season they went to the finals Bondra scored 52 . Below him was not even 1 player with as many as 20 goals.

 

[Melkor]

Are they HOF players? Marginal at best. Were they superstars in their day. Yes.

This is the line of thought that really should give you a migraine..

 

[txpd]

One more add. During his time with the Capitals he scored 472 goals and 825 points. Second place was 146 from Konowalchuk and 431 points from Michal Pivonka

 

[StrikingDistance]

I don't see any benefit arguing with a bot who wasn't even around during Bondra's prime time.

 

[g00n]

I don't see any benefit arguing with a bot who wasn't even around during Bondra's prime time.

I don't expect them to change their minds or message. I just want the record to be straight for everyone else, in case people forgot or didn't get to see the Caps back then.

 

[Cappy76]

Calling Bondra "not a superstar" after what he did during the deadpuck era on a completely inept Capitals offense is criminal. For years he was one of the greatest goal scorers in the league besides Jagr. I remember break downs showing that he was 2nd in goals to only Jagr in some periods in the 90s (I can't find them now).

In the time period of 90/91 (rookie season) to 03/04 (season he traded) he was 5th in goal scoring with 477 behind the likes of Hull (595), Jagr (537), Shanahan (499), and Sakic (480) all of who played 20 to 30 more games in the period. If that doesn't make you an elite and superstar in the dead puck era what does?

Edit:

Found it - From 94/95 to 03/04 he was second in NHL goal scoring with 376 behind only Jagr (412). And above Tkachuk (359), Selanne (351), and Shanahan (334).

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Place Kucherov in the dead puck era and he'd struggle to average a point a game. Put him on the dead puck era Caps and...

 

[Cappy76]

Digging into more numbers a couple things - Ovechkin since 91/92 is 2nd in goal scored 730 to Jagr (739), that's 14 seasons before he entered the league. The goal scoring we've been spoiled with in Ovechkin is insane. Also Bondra ranks 14th in that same time period (15 seasons after he's left the league)

 

[Melkor]

This thread..

 

[Hivemind]

Place Kucherov in the dead puck era and he'd struggle to average a point a game. Put him on the dead puck era Caps and...

I have whoever is bashing Bondra on ignore, but the insinuation that Bondra is better than Kucherov (or would have done better than Kuch in that era) is a pretty bold one. Bondra is great, but Kucherov is a top 5 player in the NHL. Bondra was never that.

 

[g00n]

I have whoever is bashing Bondra on ignore, but the insinuation that Bondra is better than Kucherov (or would have done better than Kuch in that era) is a pretty bold one. Bondra is great, but Kucherov is a top 5 player in the NHL. Bondra was never that.

If you didn't have me on ignore you'd see that's not true.

 

[Ridley Simon]

This thread..

Geez Dude. You migrate to the Caps board and knowingly provoke Caps fans.

Bondra and Backstrom. Those are your newest targets for click bait amongst the group.

Just stop posing please. You aren’t fooling anyone. Laughing emoji’s and all (which is a funny thing to use when you mocked another poster for multiple emoji’s….well played).

 

[Ridley Simon]

I have whoever is bashing Bondra on ignore, but the insinuation that Bondra is better than Kucherov (or would have done better than Kuch in that era) is a pretty bold one. Bondra is great, but Kucherov is a top 5 player in the NHL. Bondra was never that.

So a guy that lead the league in goals a few times and was a top 4 goal scorer overall over 12 seasons — or whatever it was — was never a top 5 player in the NHL?

how can someone lead the league in goals more than once, never be a top 5 player?

that’s typically stupid, Queen Bee

 

[Melkor]

"In an era that was HOSTILE to his team and his talents"...ohhhh..world against us.. that's cute..

Nobody ever was hostile against anybody. It's just that nobody cared about them in any way, shape or form is what had really happened. Then call like it was and the post will look much more credible.

 

[Melkor]

Geez Dude. You migrate to the Caps board and knowingly provoke Caps fans.

Bondra and Backstrom. Those are your newest targets for click bait amongst the group.

Just stop posing please. You aren’t fooling anyone. Laughing emoji’s and all (which is a funny thing to use when you mocked another poster for multiple emoji’s….well played).

Nah I just defend my opinion. I know it's more common today to bend over when you get pressed about something you say but let's have a different model of interaction for a moment, shall we?

It's not a clickbait. They are not superstars regardless of how much some people want them to be ones. Backstrom is in that same tier with Giroux, Kessel, Tavares etc. All very good players with some great years during the course of their careers. Just not superstar caliber.

 

[um]

I have whoever is bashing Bondra on ignore, but the insinuation that Bondra is better than Kucherov (or would have done better than Kuch in that era) is a pretty bold one. Bondra is great, but Kucherov is a top 5 player in the NHL. Bondra was never that.

I have Kucherov as a top 2/3 player right now. I don’t see it as an insult to Bondra to say he was never that good.

But he is one of the most relevant Caps ever and his number should be retired.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Nah I just defend my opinion. I know it's more common today to bend over when you get pressed about something you say but let's have a different model of interaction for a moment, shall we?

Right. Defend defend defend. Very much a victim. I guess you are the worlds first “fan” of a team where you routinely disparage not only the teams current situation — but their past and future one as well. It’s all bad!!

makes total sense. You def are a TRUE Caps fan. LOL

we see thru this my man. you aren’t fooling us. it’s ok. Anyone can pretend to be something in the internet. It’s easy!

 

[g00n]

"In an era that was HOSTILE to his team and his talents"...ohhhh..world against us.. that's cute..

Nobody ever was hostile against anybody. It's just that nobody cared about them in any way, shape or form is what had really happened. Then call like it was and the post will look much more credible.

You clearly weren't a Caps fan in the 90s if you think you have a gripe here. I'll explain it to you.

The Caps were the Washington Generals of the NHL for a long time, especially when competing with the bigger markets. It was made even worse by three events: Hunter's hit on Turgeon, the limo incident and Schoenfeld's "have another donut" comment.

After that period the Caps media coverage nationally was decidedly negative, and their PP differential especially in the playoffs was the worst or near-worst in the league for years.

But I don't expect some new jack troll to recall any of this since it doesn't fit the narrative.

Now let's talk about your "credibility"...

 

[Melkor]

Right. Defend defend defend. Very much a victim. I guess you are the worlds first “fan” of a team that you routinely disparage not only the teams current situation — but their past and future one as well. It’s all bad!!

makes total sense. You def are a TRUE Caps fan. LOL

we see thru this my man. you aren’t fooling us. it’s ok. Anyone can pretend to be something in the internet. It’s easy!

See what's happening here..My judgment of something is never through the lenses of fanboying. If the team sucks I call it as it is. If it's good I'll admit it. If the guy is a superstar I can toss my perception of him aside and admit it that he is but if he isn't then he isn't regardless if some fanboys feel some heat up their behind reading that. Saying all that I still can root for somebody while emphasizing what they are lacking, most of the time in a rather direct way.

I'm not expecting someone to understand that really no matter whatever the hell yall see lol.

 

[Melkor]

You clearly weren't a Caps fan in the 90s if you think you have a gripe here. I'll explain it to you.

The Caps were the Washington Generals of the NHL for a long time, especially when competing with the bigger markets. It was made even worse by three events: Hunter's hit on Turgeon, the limo incident and Schoenfeld's "have another donut" comment.

After that period the Caps media coverage nationally was decidedly negative, and their PP differential especially in the playoffs was the worst or near-worst in the league for years.

But I don't expect some new jack troll to recall any of this since it doesn't fit the narrative.

Now let's talk about your "credibility"...

All that has a direct correlation with Bondra's status, I get it. I wonder if Ovechkin's HoF spot is in danger with Tom Wilson's history..

 

[Ridley Simon]

See what's happening here..My judgment of something is never through the lenses of fanboying. If the team sucks I call it as it is. If it's good I'll admit it. If the guy is a superstar I can toss my perception of him aside and admit it that he is but if he isn't then he isn't regardless if some fanboys feel some heat up their behind reading that. Saying all that I still can root for somebody while emphasizing what they are lacking, most of the time in a rather direct way.

I'm not expecting someone to understand that really no matter whatever the hell yall see lol.

Right. You don’t enjoy the role of antagonist here — my bad. You’re just “keepin it real” for all of us. And allowing your fellow Caps fans a chance to truly see through a non biased lens. Without all that “I love my team” bias that we all feel. It’s that “tough love” that people always talk about. Totally got it now.

My bad. You really are misunderstood. Can’t believe we all missed this part.

 

[txpd]

Geez Dude. You migrate to the Caps board and knowingly provoke Caps fans.

Bondra and Backstrom. Those are your newest targets for click bait amongst the group.

Just stop posing please. You aren’t fooling anyone. Laughing emoji’s and all (which is a funny thing to use when you mocked another poster for multiple emoji’s….well played).

Oh, the I dont like Ovechkin's game is a winner too. laughing emoji....

 

[Melkor]

Right. You don’t enjoy the role of antagonist here — my bad. You’re just “keepin it real” for all of us. And allowing your fellow Caps fans a chance to truly see through a non biased lens. Without all that “I love my team” bias that we all feel. It’s that “tough love” that people always talk about. Totally got it now.

My bad. You really are misunderstood. Can’t believe we all missed this part.

With some players it's not a tough love. I really wish half of this team would be gone by the end of this summer..

Oh, the I dont like Ovechkin's game is a winner too. laughing emoji....

Hey I just though about something and felt I need an expert opinion on this: do you feel Mcdavid wouldn't have a spot on the Caps top-6 because there's no free spots for him there or they would have given them a chance to prove himself?

 

[Ridley Simon]

With some players it's not a tough love. I really wish half of this team would be gone by the end of this summer..

Sure. I’d wager you have a blueprint for success for them. Of course!

I'm sure we all would like to see a lot of things gone by the end of this summer. LOL