Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2020 Offseason Pt. 4

[Ovechkins Wodka]

are we playing tonight or what?

 

[txpd]

Good lord. What is going on in this country with the short sighted selfishness.

That question has been on the table for a few years now. I want what I want. We are the GET OFF MY LAWN country

 

[chilimac]

are we playing tonight or what?

well, if the Carolina situation is now the League precedent/standard... then one more positive test today by a Cap would put this game on the shelf ? Maybe? But, i have no idea what the team testing schedule is.

 

[OV Rocks]

Ovi could have had covid himself. Or he could have had vaccine shotst. I dont see a problem with any of these options. Antibody test is common in Russia, there is just not much sense to do it out of the blue because if you feel good and maybe had covid some time before you can get it again at some uncertain moment.

If Ovi had covid in the offseason he can get it again (probably in mild form too) in, say, March or May. Totally possible.

Nowadays you can sign up to get vaccinated straight on government service site. Not many are in a hurry to do it though (ppl who's working in more risky circumstances are doing it mostly, also older ppl; young ppl like Ovi do not go for it atm).

I am 100% serious with this take:

Ovi got a vaccine from Putin before the season started.

 

[Raikkonen]

I am 100% serious with this take:

Ovi got a vaccine from Putin before the season started.

Doubtful. Most probably he got covid naturally, tested for that and then did nothing else.

I understand the concept of strict rules, and I think his wife should have kept silence.

Also I think players intent wasnt to live in hotels without gathering together for the whole season. They will get crazy this way.

Im sure many are gathering but arent caught yet (the new generation of monopoly games will be with spy webcams ofc).

Caps will do just fine. Im pumped to see CMM personally.

 

[tenken00]

Doubtful. Most probably he got covid naturally, tested for that and then did nothing else.

I understand the concept of strict rules, and I think his wife should have kept silence.

Also I think players intent wasnt to live in hotels without gathering together for the whole season. They will get crazy this way.

Im sure many are gathering but arent caught yet (the new generation of monopoly games will be with spy webcams ofc).

Caps will do just fine. Im pumped to see CMM personally.

I think Ovie's wife was more angered by the fact that the 4 Russians were outed like they were into the media, and her belief that the outing was due to the ethnic perception of "Russians" that some people have. I think it would probably have been best for her to keep silent because I think it made the story even bigger than it should be, but I don't fault her for having an emotional outburst to defend her own husband. That's all it is.

And I'm sure that there are other players gathering together secretly all around the league. It's only because of Samsonov's positive test results that they got caught. But, I think with this story coming out, players will think twice now about it.

 

[pman25]

also keep in mind that teams that aren't on the road or been on a week long road trip haven't had this problem yet. In Pittsburgh that was already like night 5 in a hotel room, I imagine that does kind of suck just practice, play hockey, and then back to your room. Can't go home to see your family like they can for teams playing at home. So some teams just haven't been in a situation yet where they could break the rules, but this was probably happening for road trip teams and the caps were the most egregious offenders and had a positive test so the league had to come down on them as a message to everyone else about road travel this season.

 

[tenken00]

And those wishing to move Kuznetsov: these few games if McMichael plays (and at center) will show a lot if that is even possible. There is no way we move Kuznetsov, however you do it, if we don't have a replacement 2C. No ifs and buts. Not saying that McMichael can automatically fill that role, but you have to see if he has the potential to handle it at the NHL level.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Considering CMM is probably a year + from truly NHL-ready, would huuuuuuuuge if he played well now.

 

[Eirikrautha]

I think Ovie's wife was more angered by the fact that the 4 Russians were outed like they were into the media, and her belief that the outing was due to the ethnic perception of "Russians" that some people have. I think it would probably have been best for her to keep silent because I think it made the story even bigger than it should be, but I don't fault her for having an emotional outburst to defend her own husband. That's all it is.

And I'm sure that there are other players gathering together secretly all around the league. It's only because of Samsonov's positive test results that they got caught. But, I think with this story coming out, players will think twice now about it.

Well, reading her tweet, I think she is also angered by the hypocrisy, too. There is ZERO science to support the idea that players are less likely to get this respiratory virus sitting next to each other on the bench than in a hotel room. There is almost no evidence to support Ovie becoming reinfected at this point. See the CDC stuff posted last page:

At this time, experts do not know how long someone is protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. The immunity someone gains from having an infection, called natural immunity, varies from person to person. Some early evidence suggests natural immunity may not last very long.
We won’t know how long immunity produced by vaccination lasts until we have more data on how well the vaccines work.
Both natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity are important aspects of COVID-19 that experts are trying to learn more about...

They DON'T KNOW. Anyone who says they do is a liar. Period. So the league is making up rules based on pure conjecture. Now, the players agreed to these rules (or, at least, to some rules. I've seen some controversy over what the players actually agreed to). So they don't have much of a leg to stand on. But the fact that they agreed to stupid rules doesn't make the rules less stupid...

 

[tenken00]

Well, reading her tweet, I think she is also angered by the hypocrisy, too. There is ZERO science to support the idea that players are less likely to get this respiratory virus sitting next to each other on the bench than in a hotel room. There is almost no evidence to support Ovie becoming reinfected at this point. See the CDC stuff posted last page:



They DON'T KNOW. Anyone who says they do is a liar. Period. So the league is making up rules based on pure conjecture. Now, the players agreed to these rules (or, at least, to some rules. I've seen some controversy over what the players actually agreed to). So they don't have much of a leg to stand on. But the fact that they agreed to stupid rules doesn't make the rules less stupid...

Oh whether the rule is dumb or not is a different story. You can change the rule. But in the Caps' situation, the rule was still in place so the NHL had to enforce it.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

If CMM is even remotely competent right now then I give Kuz 10 game to see if he responds at all to the pressure and I ship him off of he doesn’t.


I’ve gone from #1 Kuz fan to being so over him.


2017 the team is ousted, in the media breakdown several players, notably Niskanen, specifically call out players for not “buying in”. (Who could he be talking about?)


2018 Kuzy plays out of his mind in the playoffs, absolutely the key to winning cup)


2019-2020 Kuzy is embroiled ins cocaine controversy and lies. His play is erratic and inconsistent, after the 2020 bubble several journalists report that the team didn’t take it seriously and even GMBM mentions the need for a culture change.


2021 Kuz and crew break a rule (albeit dumb one) but what is clear is that the “buy in” isn’t there. Even Oshie seemed frustrated with his flat response of (paraphrasing) “the rule was clear to us, I understood what was expected”.


I just think we need to jettison him, he’s clearly not the sole issue but he’s the most obvious and expendable common entity.


Do I blame Ovechkin for this? Totally, he is captain and ultimately has the most sway with the Russians, his involvement is troubling.

I also am concerned about Samsonov’s decisions, two questionable absences now in a pandemic because he’s not bought in.


I can’t see us going deep without seriously altering the makeup of this team

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Oh whether the rule is dumb or not is a different story. You can change the rule. But in the Caps' situation, the rule was still in place so the NHL had to enforce it.

This is the key and the Lavi and Oshie quotes emphasize it. We can talk all day about how dumb the rule is, but the team made it clear they understood it and the possible ramifications.


I’m beating a dead horse but if you could sum up the 2010-2020 Capitals in one phrase that was repeated after every failure it was “buy in”. Some guys are willing to sacrifice, others aren’t. It’s pretty plain to see at this point what guys are willing to do what it takes and who is content with one Cup.


We need a cultural enema. This isn’t about a stupid rule, it’s about commitment and discipline to a common goal. It’s simply absent from this team.

Dallas last season wasn’t even close to the best Western team, they were just the hungriest. Watching them it was clear how everyone on that team bought in. It’s pathetic if you looked at our games in contrast.

 

[Langway]

Considering CMM is probably a year + from truly NHL-ready, would huuuuuuuuge if he played well now.

Being better than Pinho won't be all that difficult I'd imagine. But it still probably won't make him ready to contribute too much. He'll need to make his case that they need him in the lineup period, whether that means center or wing. I've liked Sprong thus far but between him and Panik they haven't set the bar terribly high either. Decent effort but it's ultimately all about results. If he can manage to contribute at a certain level then they should be willing to withstand some amount of inconsistency relative to less productive players (esp. those with no PK role). I think he gets a shot soon.

 

[HecticGlow]

Can we just be clear: we don't win a cup, or likely even make it near the playoffs, if Kuzy left the team and wasn't replaced with someone of his skill and ability. Do we have a problem with the way Kuzy is playing? Absolutely. If CMM proved to be an out-of-this-world rookie is there any chance he forces Kuzy out of the lineup? Hell no.

This team lives and dies by its top-6 in terms of offensive output and potential. We need him to wake up and fight more than he has been the last season or so, but trading him and making the team better off is just not something that's going to happen.

 

[HecticGlow]

Being better than Pinho won't be all that difficult I'd imagine. But it still probably won't make him ready to contribute too much. He'll need to make his case that they need him in the lineup period, whether that means center or wing. I've liked Sprong thus far but between him and Panik they haven't set the bar terribly high either. Decent effort but it's ultimately all about results. If he can manage to contribute at a certain level then they should be willing to withstand some amount of inconsistency relative to less productive players (esp. those with no PK role). I think he gets a shot soon.

The question is whether CMM is better than Pinho in terms of defensive responsibility, speed and confidence – not whether he's better offensive potential. Can I see CMM potentially getting a point or two in sheltered ice time early in his NHL career? Yep. Maybe even a some fancy work for a highlight reel. But all indications are his play away from the puck and speed aren't at NHL center levels just yet.

 

[tenken00]

Can we just be clear: we don't win a cup, or likely even make it near the playoffs, if Kuzy left the team and wasn't replaced with someone of his skill and ability. Do we have a problem with the way Kuzy is playing? Absolutely. If CMM proved to be an out-of-this-world rookie is there any chance he forces Kuzy out of the lineup? Hell no.

This team lives and dies by its top-6 in terms of offensive output and potential. We need him to wake up and fight more than he has been the last season or so, but trading him and making the team better off is just not something that's going to happen.

There is no chance that Kuzy will be moved this year or next year. But if McMichael shows well, is there a chance that Kuzy will get moved after that if he doesn't play well? Definitely a chance. Fun fact: Kuzy's 15 team NTC turns to only 10 team NTC in 2022.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

If you sign a contract with a 15 team NTC... but the league adds 2 teams after, does that change anything?
I’m more curious for the sake of how NTCs work as the league restructures, not because I think VGK or SEA are viable options.


What if a team relocated?

 

[g00n]

Well, reading her tweet, I think she is also angered by the hypocrisy, too. There is ZERO science to support the idea that players are less likely to get this respiratory virus sitting next to each other on the bench than in a hotel room. There is almost no evidence to support Ovie becoming reinfected at this point. See the CDC stuff posted last page:


They DON'T KNOW. Anyone who says they do is a liar. Period. So the league is making up rules based on pure conjecture. Now, the players agreed to these rules (or, at least, to some rules. I've seen some controversy over what the players actually agreed to). So they don't have much of a leg to stand on. But the fact that they agreed to stupid rules doesn't make the rules less stupid...

Variability in immunity data doesn't mean people are lying or know nothing.

I could post many links showing that reducing risk by avoiding lingering with groups in small rooms is not "pure conjecture" but there's no point. Just google some studies on ventilation and COVID and the CDCs own guidelines and tables for clearing airborne particles from enclosed areas.

Regarding the exposure on the bench, that's another topic. We can argue whether or not even having a season is possible without a bubble. But if people want to complain "they're exposed on the bench and on the ice, why not in hotel rooms?" that's like saying "well you pulled the trigger once and didn't die, why not put the gun to your head and try again?"

Why make things worse? Why do things that are more likely to lead to outbreaks on teams? If we want to talk about "science" then one fundamental of scientific rigor is limitation of variables. Why add variables outside the rink?

If you're concerned about exposure on the bench the answer isn't "let them do whatever they want off the ice". Just cancel the season if you value f***ing around in a hotel room more than playing hockey.

 

[Langway]

The question is whether CMM is better than Pinho in terms of defensive responsibility, speed and confidence – not whether he's better offensive potential. Can I see CMM potentially getting a point or two in sheltered ice time early in his NHL career? Yep. Maybe even a some fancy work for a highlight reel. But all indications are his play away from the puck and speed aren't at NHL center levels just yet.

Pinho isn't that quick either, though. Pinho brings more reliability and perhaps puck protection and forechecking but I doubt he creates much. That said, McMichael has hardly practiced and needs familiarity before just throwing him out there. They're not that desperate. His skill level will play but just how quickly and the risks they're willing to take with it is unknown. Either way I don't think Pinho is a 12 minutes a night NHLer. He's a lesser Boyd. Whereas if everything clicks McMichael should be able to handle that softer minute deployment. I think the risk will eventually be worth it but once Kuznetsov returns I doubt he stays in and this slim window may close before he gets a shot.

I'm intrigued mostly because they're sort of boring as-is. Reliable maybe but outside of Wilson largely meh.

 

[Eirikrautha]

Variability in immunity data doesn't mean people are lying or know nothing.

I could post many links showing that reducing risk by avoiding lingering with groups in small rooms is not "pure conjecture" but there's no point. Just google some studies on ventilation and COVID and the CDCs own guidelines and tables for clearing airborne particles from enclosed areas.

Regarding the exposure on the bench, that's another topic. We can argue whether or not even having a season is possible without a bubble. But if people want to complain "they're exposed on the bench and on the ice, why not in hotel rooms?" that's like saying "well you pulled the trigger once and didn't die, why not put the gun to your head and try again?"

Why make things worse? Why do things that are more likely to lead to outbreaks on teams? If we want to talk about "science" then one fundamental of scientific rigor is limitation of variables. Why add variables outside the rink?

If you're concerned about exposure on the bench the answer isn't "let them do whatever they want off the ice". Just cancel the season if you value f***ing around in a hotel room more than playing hockey.

Outbreaks are inevitable. Everyone will get this virus. Even with the vaccines (check the CDC's own literature. They clearly state the vaccines reduce the severity of the illness, but do not prevent you from contracting COVID. When they rolled out the Moderna vaccine at my work last week, the documentation we had to read and sign said the same thing), we will ALL catch it. Trying to avoid COVID altogether would make King Canute laugh at you.

The key is to minimize its impact. Lowering the transmission rates so that hospitals don't get overwhelmed. Lowering the severity of illness, via vaccine or treatment. But every person on this continent will be exposed to this virus and "catch" it (that's how antibodies work... you have to have the infectious disease in your system for the antibodies to be produced to fight it, even after vaccination). So, either we cancel all sports right now until we build up herd immunity (via exposure or vaccine), or we establish policies that take into account what little we do know about this virus and concentrate our efforts on policies that make sense. And policies that say it is OK to sit next to other players on the bench during a game, but not in the same hotel room don't. The difference in viral loads is well below the threshold for infection, so either way you will pass the virus on (and the same HVAC that is circulating the air in their room is circulating that same air throughout the whole hotel). Masks have proven to be startlingly ineffective at reducing transmission in some circumstances (once again, see the CDC's own reports of who gets infected and where), and very effective in others. Creating policies that don't take these realities into account are doomed to fail.

Ovechkin's wife is perfectly right to sneer at the faux-science behind such nonsensical distinctions. What is the NHL's goal? If it is to eliminate transmission of COVID, then don't play! If it is to reduce transmission, then create policies that will work, not just look good (which is what their policies are based on now)...

 

[Capsman]

Well, reading her tweet, I think she is also angered by the hypocrisy, too. There is ZERO science to support the idea that players are less likely to get this respiratory virus sitting next to each other on the bench than in a hotel room. There is almost no evidence to support Ovie becoming reinfected at this point. See the CDC stuff posted last page:



They DON'T KNOW. Anyone who says they do is a liar. Period. So the league is making up rules based on pure conjecture. Now, the players agreed to these rules (or, at least, to some rules. I've seen some controversy over what the players actually agreed to). So they don't have much of a leg to stand on. But the fact that they agreed to stupid rules doesn't make the rules less stupid...

Actually there is PLENTY of science to support that. For one, minimizing the cumulative amount of time they spend together without masks decreases the risk, that is indisputable. It's like people asking "why should I wear a mask in a restaurant if I'm going to take it off while eating?". Ah, it's a matter of simple statistics. Wearing a mask 50% of the time is better than wearing it 0% of the time. Also, in a hotel room they will be all facing each other (presumably) and there will be more chatter, which increases the risk. Finally, in one scenario it's very feasible to wear it, in the other it is not.

Nobody is saying not to have a social life, just wear the freaking mask. They didn't and knew the rules. There is no hypocrisy.

 

[Calicaps]

Outbreaks are inevitable. Everyone will get this virus. Even with the vaccines (check the CDC's own literature. They clearly state the vaccines reduce the severity of the illness, but do not prevent you from contracting COVID. When they rolled out the Moderna vaccine at my work last week, the documentation we had to read and sign said the same thing), we will ALL catch it. Trying to avoid COVID altogether would make King Canute laugh at you.

The key is to minimize its impact. Lowering the transmission rates so that hospitals don't get overwhelmed. Lowering the severity of illness, via vaccine or treatment. But every person on this continent will be exposed to this virus and "catch" it (that's how antibodies work... you have to have the infectious disease in your system for the antibodies to be produced to fight it, even after vaccination). So, either we cancel all sports right now until we build up herd immunity (via exposure or vaccine), or we establish policies that take into account what little we do know about this virus and concentrate our efforts on policies that make sense. And policies that say it is OK to sit next to other players on the bench during a game, but not in the same hotel room don't. The difference in viral loads is well below the threshold for infection, so either way you will pass the virus on (and the same HVAC that is circulating the air in their room is circulating that same air throughout the whole hotel). Masks have proven to be startlingly ineffective at reducing transmission in some circumstances (once again, see the CDC's own reports of who gets infected and where), and very effective in others. Creating policies that don't take these realities into account are doomed to fail.

Ovechkin's wife is perfectly right to sneer at the faux-science behind such nonsensical distinctions. What is the NHL's goal? If it is to eliminate transmission of COVID, then don't play! If it is to reduce transmission, then create policies that will work, not just look good (which is what their policies are based on now)...

You need to follow your own argument here. Yes, you are correct. The goal is to reduce impact on individuals and health care systems. But since most people have not been vaccinated, they are still at risk of potentially deadly symptoms. Therefore, UNTIL everyone has been inoculated, the only way to reduce serious illness and death is to do everything possible to prevent transmission.

And that means taking excessive precautions. Because it's not only about whether Ovie will get the virus again. Or even whether one of the other Caps players will get it. It's about whether someone on the support or coaching who maybe has a complicating factor will get it. Or whether someone will take it home unknowingly to their elderly parent.

JFC, it's about going just the teeny tiniest bit out of your own way to look out for other people. Like g00n said earlier. What they did was so selfish.

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[Langway]

Innnnnnteresting.