Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2020 Offseason Pt. 1

[Ridley Simon]

No absolutes. The rule of thumb is that if you trade the best player you get less back. I would rather motivate Kuznetsov than trade him. I cant imagine trading him and having a better team right away.

I could be suffering a lack of imagination.

The only trade for Kuz I would think about would be for someone like ROR, if the Blues also needed a shakeup. Caps would probably have to add though, IMO.

 

[txpd]

The only trade for Kuz I would think about would be for someone like ROR, if the Blues also needed a shakeup. Caps would probably have to add though, IMO.

That kind of returns us to where I started. Trading Kuznetsov because of effort/interest issues makes him harder to trade to begin with. Out of the top 6 I am fairly confident that the work ethic problem players were not 8, 19, 77 and 43. So, its 92 and 13. I find it to be a major challenge to both trade Kuznetsov and immediately improve the team. I would think the best chance for immediate success is to convince Kuzy to bring his A game

 

[Midnight Judges]

And for the final time. My expectations are not too high for Vrana. I don't expect him to be a point a game player. But I do expect him to improve the rest of his game and it just isn't happening.

I saw a lot of improvement from Vrana year over year. In his first seasons he looked physically overmatched fairly consistently. This past season he improved at puck possession (avoiding getting knocked off the puck) and battling for the puck along the boards.

I think he improved his physical strength.

JMO, but he is young. He has shown improvement, and he does have room to grow. He's always had great speed and a pretty good shot and an ok ability to pass.

I expect him to develop into a solid 2nd line player and put up 50-60 points with 25 goals - which is precisely what he did this season. I also expect him to sustain ~93% of that production in the playoffs - which he has not done.

 

[txpd]

Vrana is 6ft 195. He is a speed player. He is just not going to be able to forecheck like Wilson or Oshie and he isnt going to be able to control the puck like Backstrom and Eller. I expect his defensive coverage to improve. That usually takes experience anyway.

 

[twabby]

The problem with isolating Vrana and his lack of scoring this postseason is that only one player scored at 5v5 against the Islanders: Ovechkin. Only two forwards had 5v5 points: Ovechkin and Wilson (a single assist). Only 3 forwards were on the ice for 5v5 goals for: the first line of 8-92-43.

It was a systemic failure caused by poor coaching and preparation. For two straight seasons it has been clear this team has been vastly outcoached. I'm not getting rid of one of the best even-strength producers until he gets a shot with a decent coach.

 

[Empty Goal Net]

The only trade for Kuz I would think about would be for someone like ROR, if the Blues also needed a shakeup. Caps would probably have to add though, IMO.

imo one other aspect of the Caps trading one of their core guys ala Kuzy or Vrana is if they're moving one disaffected player for that type of player on another team. Change of scenery, teammates and/or culture and something of a fresh start. It's a bit of a crapshoot but similar to the draft - you don't know if the guy you're moving is going to re-blossom, but if in your best judgment his potential for doing so are bleak if you retain him, you apply your hockey smarts to the guy you could get and decide it's worth the risk. In that type of scenario, you're avoiding an outright basket case and targeting someone for whom the change could reinvigorate him and his game. Maybe it turns out to be a win-win for both teams (and players). I don't know ROR's mindset vis-a-vis the Blues and St. Louis, but he is the calibre of player GMBM should be considering.

 

[tenken00]

The problem with trading Kuzy would be needing to have a plan at C. Both Backstrom and Eller are in their 30s, Dowd is a 4th liner, and as great as McMichael could be, I am not even certain he projects to be a center in the NHL. Other than Pinho and Protas, we have really no one else in the pipeline.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Zetterberg and Datsyuk are first ballot Hall of Famers.

I mean, they’re not yet, I was just saying using existing HoFers.


But yes, that team had 5 HOFers

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

This. Babcock isn’t my preference but I trust BMac knows what the team needs more than we do. The key will be can an old dog learn new tricks, aka did Babcock learn from Toronto?

Given the last coaching hiring I am wonder how anyone has full faith in GMBMs ability to read a room/coach

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

No absolutes. The rule of thumb is that if you trade the best player you get less back. I would rather motivate Kuznetsov than trade him. I cant imagine trading him and having a better team right away.

I could be suffering a lack of imagination.

or he could be suffering from a distinct case of the No F’s to give that may never go away...

IMO it’s a very real likelihood that he can’t be motivated to do more as a Pro every night unless he wants to do it.

also “best” and most talented” are often different. So yeah, we would likely be trading the more talented guy no doubt, but I’d take a slightly less talented player who gives an effort like Oshie.

 

[txpd]

or he could be suffering from a distinct case of the No F’s to give that may never go away...

IMO it’s a very real likelihood that he can’t be motivated to do more as a Pro every night unless he wants to do it.

also “best” and most talented” are often different. So yeah, we would likely be trading the more talented guy no doubt, but I’d take a slightly less talented player who gives an effort like Oshie.

I am concerned about Kuzy too. We have talked about that he may have to be traded with a great deal of blowback as a result. It would help to know more about what is happening on the inside but we wont.

 

[txpd]

The problem with isolating Vrana and his lack of scoring this postseason is that only one player scored at 5v5 against the Islanders: Ovechkin. .

Vrana had zero points in last season's playoffs too. He also had only 2 goals in the final 19 games of the regular season. Its not just one bad playoff series. Its a body of work at this point

 

[searle]

I was momentarily on the trade vrana bus after his play in our last game this year, but it's entirely possible that HCTR was the reason for his struggles, everyone we trade away at the moment starts playing far better, making us look like dummies for jettisoning them.

I seem to remember regular reports that he was on the ice after practice doing skill stuff and taking shots from spots on the ice that he didn't finish from in the last game - give the kid a season with a new coach before moving him on.

Kuzy should have the same opportunity, but I think he should have a shorter leash.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Given the last coaching hiring I am wonder how anyone has full faith in GMBMs ability to read a room/coach

the accounts I’ve heard said the players wanted TR. That was the consensus in the room, to stay in house.

“Full faith”? That sounds foolhardy. Nobody can get everything right, but he’s more than earned the right to pick the next guy IMO.

 

[txpd]

Leonsis calls the shots on the coach. See the reasons why the Caps hired Trotz instead of Lavy last time.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Leonsis calls the shots on the coach. See the reasons why the Caps hired Trotz instead of Lavy last time.

but come on most owners approve the HC along the way in most sports hirings of that level IMO. You make more of Ted’s involvement there than there really is a IMO. Yes he’s likely heavily involved but that’s not unusual.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

I was momentarily on the trade vrana bus after his play in our last game this year, but it's entirely possible that HCTR was the reason for his struggles, everyone we trade away at the moment starts playing far better, making us look like dummies for jettisoning them.

I seem to remember regular reports that he was on the ice after practice doing skill stuff and taking shots from spots on the ice that he didn't finish from in the last game - give the kid a season with a new coach before moving him on.

Kuzy should have the same opportunity, but I think he should have a shorter leash.

Petition to call Reirden, HeCToR

 

[txpd]

but come on most owners approve the HC along the way in most sports hirings of that level IMO. You make more of Ted’s involvement there than there really is a IMO. Yes he’s likely heavily involved but that’s not unusual.

I heard Ted describe hiring Cassidy. They interviewed several candidates. McPhee brought Hanlon. Patrick brought a name not mentioned, and Leonsis brought Cassidy. The other two made their case against Cassidy and then they decided on Cassidy.

Further, there is no way that McPhee had anything to do with hiring Adam Oates. Boudreau and Hunter were McPhee but both were supposed to finish out the season only and allow for a proper coachin search.

We know that Leonsis had an affection for Trotz already. Was not Trotz and MacLellan hired on the same day?

Maybe I am wrong but based on that it looks to me like Ted does more than just sign off.

 

[Corby78]

Given the last coaching hiring I am wonder how anyone has full faith in GMBMs ability to read a room/coach

he fired TR fairly quickly, and he let Trotz hang on long enough. I’m not overly concerned about that.

 

[Melkor]

but come on most owners approve the HC along the way in most sports hirings of that level IMO. You make more of Ted’s involvement there than there really is a IMO. Yes he’s likely heavily involved but that’s not unusual.

I have a very unpopular opinion as usual but...initially Ted hired Maclellan as a guy from inside to be his yes guy when it comes down to these critical decisions like coaches hiring etc. Along the way Maclellan with his subtle little moves earned some credibility in his eyes and now it's kinda back to Ted taking on the charge again.

 

[Corby78]

I have a very unpopular opinion as usual but...initially Ted hired Maclellan as a guy from inside to be his yes guy when it comes down to these critical decisions like coaches hiring etc. Along the way Maclellan with his subtle little moves earned some credibility in his eyes and now it's kinda back to Ted taking on the charge again.

Ted isn’t completely hands off IMO, but I think 20 years of Snyder has jaded you a bit. I think GMBM has more control than you think.

 

[twabby]

Vrana had zero points in last season's playoffs too. He also had only 2 goals in the final 19 games of the regular season. Its not just one bad playoff series. Its a body of work at this point

John Carlson also had two dreadful postseasons in a row along with finishing up this season poorly. His body of work is also similarly suspect if that is the case.

The entire team was bad for the period of time you mention, there's nothing special about Vrana playing poorly during it when 3/4 the team did.

 

[txpd]

John Carlson also had two dreadful postseasons in a row along with finishing up this season poorly. His body of work is also similarly suspect if that is the case.

The entire team was bad for the period of time you mention, there's nothing special about Vrana playing poorly during it when 3/4 the team did.

Was Vrana asked to play center or something? Was Vrana injured badly enough that he didnt play a game til the first playoff game. Do i remember right that the Caps scored 9 goals in the series? Carlson had 6pts. He was clearly not his normal self mobility wise. I would guess that was the injury that we all saw happen.

I dont think comparing Vrana to Carlson is a good idea

 

[Melkor]

Lmao I get it some people really love this enigmatic euros that seem to have talent but come up short when it matters but comparing that guy to Carlson... Carlson's game in his own zone might have dropped off big time lately but I tend to believe a 10 years long body of work and multiple records as a franchise D including postseasons more than a fragile 24 year old "youngster" who can't buy a point in most important games for almost 30 months now.

 

[twabby]

Was Vrana asked to play center or something? Was Vrana injured badly enough that he didnt play a game til the first playoff game. Do i remember right that the Caps scored 9 goals in the series? Carlson had 6pts. He was clearly not his normal self mobility wise. I would guess that was the injury that we all saw happen.

I dont think comparing Vrana to Carlson is a good idea

You can try to make the argument that Carlson was anything but a trash fire this postseason, but I don't think you'll get many takers. The point being that several key members of the team were bad or at best ineffective and I think the reasonable argument for this is that the team was lost due to poor coaching and poor direction. And since you like deferring to management, the fact that management swiftly fired Reirden more quickly than anyone thought they would seems to suggest this is their opinion as well.