Post-Game Talk: Capitals vs. Flames 11/4/14 7:00 PM Caps Lose 4-3 OT

[Hivemind]

So...Beagle.

lol

I mean the rooks and new guys probably wouldn't be felt in the lock room if they were shipped off. But the long standing players in important roles would be. Chimera, Ward, and Laich tend to be pretty vocal/outgoing, as well.

this is not a hockey trade. this is a shake up the locker room trade. trading Carlson or Alzner would certainly shake up the team. Neither of Brouwer or Orlov are players you would think are part of the culture problem on the team.

Why don't you think Brouwer is part of the culture issue? He goes invisible just as often as anyone else and commits some pretty dumb mistakes.

 

[Blades of Steel]

Anyone is available if the trade is significant enough. No playing favorites, some cap space makes certain moves nearly impossible to begin with.

 

[ChibiPooky]

this is not a hockey trade. this is a shake up the locker room trade. trading Carlson or Alzner would certainly shake up the team. Neither of Brouwer or Orlov are players you would think are part of the culture problem on the team.

There are a lot of poor assumptions here, but none worse than the assumption that a "shake-up" trade can't bring back anything useful and should be poorly thought through.

 

[Mickstix]

I get that it's ultimately all about wins, but all signs point to the Caps being generally unlucky and that the wins will come if they stay the course.

Would you deny that if you didn't know the record/scores, the team has passed the eye test as outplaying their opponents for much of the season?

I think they pass the eye test as far as controlling the play and possessing the puck, but the finish is what is killing them! We're still a team that relies entirely too much on sniping goals. Early on Ovie was sniping, Green was sniping, Bura, Mojo,even Ward sniped one vs Calgarly last week.. But when your snipers go cold, you're screwed! We're basically just waiting around to get lucky..

Very very v e r y rarely do you see the Capitals battle for a puck in the crease and bury a rebound.. Something that MUST be a part of this team, if it expects to do anything other than squeak in and flame out once again..

Edit note: It's becoming apparent how important the Gang Green line was for us last year.. That and Laich is hurt and Brouwer has disappeared, as usual. We need those guys to contribute, on a fairly regular basis, to be successful..

 

[txpd]

There are a lot of poor assumptions here, but none worse than the assumption that a "shake-up" trade can't bring back anything useful and should be poorly thought through.

I said nothing about the return. I focused entirely on the players being fired. You shake up the locker room by slapping the players that don't get traded by firing and shipping out one or more of their friends.

Orlov getting traded sends no message at all. He has not even played a game for this bunch yet. Brouwer might be a primary part of the locker room culture not a big part.

If John Carlson is repeatedly blowing off his coaching and repeating his mistakes as Trotz has railed against and he gets traded, that's a message sender. What message to get your **** straight does trading a 1st round pick send?

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Trading the 1st rounder sends the message that your expectations are for the team to compete now. The player brought in with that pick also likely sends a message.

 

[Mickstix]

Trading the 1st rounder sends the message that your expectations are for the team to compete now. The player brought in with that pick also likely sends a message.

I agree, draft picks are commodities but this group is young enough, with enough on the roster and in the cupboards, to be able to shop a 1st round pick if they wanted to..

Have to wonder if a stud goaltender is out there that could be had for a 1st round pick, one of our goalies and one of either Fehr, Ward or Brouwer? I just don't follow the rest of the league closely enough to know who's available and who's locked down.. (and I've not lost complete hope in Holts, just yet.. Another month though and the picture will be a lot clearer)

 

[Halpysback*]

Trading the 1st rounder sends the message that your expectations are for the team to compete now. The player brought in with that pick also likely sends a message.

I'm pretty sure they know they're not supposed to tank...

Trading Carlson, Holtby and Backstrom sends the message that ***** are on the line. Trading a 1st does not send that message

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade the 1st round pick unless it's a very, very good player.

You can get some indication of who's available just by the standings, but we really won't know what the major needs are until at least midseason.

While I suspect the needs will be a reliable goal scorer and 2/3C (I'd bet on Holtby bouncing back), one of the kids may prove to be that goal scorer or both might really establish themselves at center.

 

[Atlas]

I've watched most of the games this year. The Caps look a lot better this year overall. They've been unlucky and there are some roster issues for BMac to address but I think the Caps are slowly going in the right direction.

I thought they played their hearts out against Tampa. If the team plays that hard and if we can plug a few holes then it'll be a good year (not that we're gonna win the Cup or anything).

The team played good defense in the first couple weeks of the season. They were really hard to play against. Lately, their defensive play has been spotty. Not sure why. I expect the forwards are being lazy and not helping out like they are supposed to. Whatever changed, they have to correct that. The other teams have been skating freely around D zone a lot lately.

Burakovsky was creating several great scoring chances every game for awhile there. Lately I haven't seen as much of that.

I am a bit disappointed with Backstrom as our 1C. He's very, very good but he will never dominate offensively in this league. He will create offense but he's a guy that good teams are able to contain.

Kuz has great shifts sometimes but he hasn't been rewarded much as of yet. He seems to try to skate through the opposing team without finding a linemate. Could be because his line mates suck. He seems out of sync with the team right now.

Green is due to get injured. He has been good, not great, at getting the puck up the ice. He is talented and all but he doesn't fit my idea of a team concept. He's a wild card. I would trade him if I could get good value in return.

Fehr is really mediocre. I wouldn't him as a depth winger but he can't get **** done consistently. He might score big playoff goals it wouldn't surprise me) but he is not a top 6 winger, really.

Brouwer tries but he doesn't have much hockey sense.

Ovie doesn't ever want to play defense.

I guess we're not that good, actually. Lots of holes right now.

 

[artilector]

I've watched most of the games this year. The Caps look a lot better this year overall. They've been unlucky and there are some roster issues for BMac to address but I think the Caps are slowly going in the right direction.

I thought they played their hearts out against Tampa. If the team plays that hard and if we can plug a few holes then it'll be a good year (not that we're gonna win the Cup or anything).

The team played good defense in the first couple weeks of the season. They were really hard to play against. Lately, their defensive play has been spotty. Not sure why. I expect the forwards are being lazy and not helping out like they are supposed to. Whatever changed, they have to correct that. The other teams have been skating freely around D zone a lot lately.

Burakovsky was creating several great scoring chances every game for awhile there. Lately I haven't seen as much of that.

I am a bit disappointed with Backstrom as our 1C. He's very, very good but he will never dominate offensively in this league. He will create offense but he's a guy that good teams are able to contain.

Kuz has great shifts sometimes but he hasn't been rewarded much as of yet. He seems to try to skate through the opposing team without finding a linemate. Could be because his line mates suck. He seems out of sync with the team right now.

Green is due to get injured. He has been good, not great, at getting the puck up the ice. He is talented and all but he doesn't fit my idea of a team concept. He's a wild card. I would trade him if I could get good value in return.

Fehr is really mediocre. I wouldn't him as a depth winger but he can't get **** done consistently. He might score big playoff goals it wouldn't surprise me) but he is not a top 6 winger, really.

Brouwer tries but he doesn't have much hockey sense.

Ovie doesn't ever want to play defense.

I guess we're not that good, actually. Lots of holes right now.

I agree with a lot of that.

I may be a bit partial, but I still like Fehr as a cost-effective player. He's inconsistent, yeah, but so are pretty much all of our role players/secondary scorers/grinders. The leaderz go invisible just as often, and are (significantly) more expensive. And when he's going, he's one of our best forecheckers. So... I dunno, he wouldn't be near the top of my list of players to ship out/upgrade. Even if Wilson proves to be the long term 1RW, with Fehr there's still the option of going back to him with Chimmer and Ward, who on balance have been one of the best lines in recent years.

Kuz.. yeah, there's a disconnect with partners. But.. it's been less so recently -- one can see him getting more confident and starting to move at higher speed, and the most skilled partner he's had so far has been MoJo, so.. we're talking about him not (yet) being able to carry a line like that and make it a consistent scoring threat.. but that's a pretty tall order. Actually, I think last time Backstrom played a significant stint with those kinds of linemates without Ovi, he also couldn't do much at ES...

Green.. I'm no big fan of his, I think he's been good this year on the 3rd pairing, but I can't get past the prospect of paying 7m or whatever for a guy who is still scary defensively if asked to play a big role, and who has an equally scary injury history. That just... exceeds reasonable risk, IMO, especially when the Caps have assembled enough depth to cover for this kind of eventuality.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Jesus Christ, you watched all the Oates games?

I missed just a couple of games during the Hanlon era, but the pain was mitigated by the sense that we were actually building something. Watching the Oates era was where I drew the line.

I watched most of them. Sometimes I fell asleep or too infuriated which is the case with the Oates era. I wasn't going to watch every game this year if the Caps kept GMGM or pay for Gamecenter/Center Ice. This is the first year using the DISH app and I could watch every game last night, except the Caps game. My guess is Comcast D.C. wasn't offering the game in HD. I was really looking forward to watching this game.

 

[g00n]

in the last game I noticed Brouwer repeatedly fling the puck blindly from down low toward the point at the opposite side of the ice. I believe these were in the offensive zone and were no look back hands from off the boards. You probably can't make a more dangerous play in the offensive zone than that I wouldn't think. And as expected both times it led to a turnover or the puck jumping the stick missing the player and going out of the zone. other times I will see him going to the boards when the slot is open which makes it so he misses whatever centering pass is coming or doing the opposite floating toward the middle instead of going to where the cycle is moving. these plays do not always show up as turnovers on the stat sheet but they kill possession and caused a lot of damage. I guess this is what people mean when they talk about issues with hockey sense and awareness.

please forgive the crappy grammar due to phone dictation

 

[g00n]

in fact I believe Brooks Laich plays a similar game though he appears to be a bit more tuned in to what's going on than Brouwer. Unfortunately both of them do seem to more or less play positional hockey going to certain spaces and not really reading the play then aggressively looking for the scoring chances much. Ward maybe a bit slower but he does seem to have a killer edge in this regard.

 

[Jackstrom19]

Patience. Can't expect a team with a bunch of young talent and a brand new coach, who's coaching up a fairly new system to click on all cylinders this early into the season. I've liked our play so far. Give the boys some time

 

[ChibiPooky]

I said nothing about the return. I focused entirely on the players being fired. You shake up the locker room by slapping the players that don't get traded by firing and shipping out one or more of their friends.

There are many ways to shake up a locker room. Bringing in an impact player can do that just as much as shipping someone important out.

And yes, my point was exactly that you didn't say anything about the return. You can't just ship people (chosen only because of their impact on the locker room) out and not think about what you're getting back.

Orlov getting traded sends no message at all. He has not even played a game for this bunch yet. Brouwer might be a primary part of the locker room culture not a big part.

wat?

If John Carlson is repeatedly blowing off his coaching and repeating his mistakes as Trotz has railed against and he gets traded, that's a message sender. What message to get your **** straight does trading a 1st round pick send?

This has already been addressed as an individual statement, but again, it's the total impact of the trade you have to consider - which was my point in the first place.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I get that it's ultimately all about wins, but all signs point to the Caps being generally unlucky and that the wins will come if they stay the course.

Would you deny that if you didn't know the record/scores, the team has passed the eye test as outplaying their opponents for much of the season?

They have looked better than last year...but I dont see much of an improvement versus say parts of 2 years ago, and of course 3+ years ago. Granted, totally different teams.

The change may come from net, for all we know. And to the poster that said we cant alter the team without trading Ovechkin and Backstrom? Crazy talk.

Green, Brouwer, Laich, Holtby, Carlson, Alzner, Ward, Chimera, and the boatload of prospects the team has are all still on the roster, arent they? And much of that is highly desirable.

Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I am not advocating a massive change here (especially Alzner as he is the only young stay at home D man they have), but certainly there are assets.

Caps could use a 2C (where have we heard that before), and maybe a real G. Holtby may turn it around, or he may be "what he is" right here.

Again, we will see

 

[Ridley Simon]

what did you think of trotz post game comments after last night and after the tampa bay game? essentially he said the team played well. they stuck to the game plan and should have won the game. that if they continue to play that way the wins will come.

he said holtby needed to make a save or two in tampa. he said something similar last night that his team needs a timely save.

edit: I have no confidence whatever that the kind of trade you would want to see is even available much less an option. but for arguments sake, who do you see being traded that impacts the overall team attitude?

I think Trotz vacillates between caressing and cajoling his players. As a manager, he has too. He cant beat one drum, all the time, or it will just become background noise.

Is he speaking the truth, on his commentary? Yes, in parts. He slants whatever happened in the game toward his overall directive: accountability. Sometimes its "we were better", other times its "we need to change, now". The overall message hasnt changed much, has it, Tex?

In the end, its about the record. If the team continues to flummox around, there will be changes, and yes it will be a trade. As I mentioned above, there is a wealth of players that could get moved out. But I dont see anything happening until the season is at least 25% over, or more.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Japers' Rink posted pics of the save on Wilson. He definitely had room to go upstairs. He was standing at the edge of the trapezoid extended.

 

[tycoonheart]

Japers' Rink posted pics of the save on Wilson. He definitely had room to go upstairs. He was standing at the edge of the trapezoid extended.

I'm not gonna blame that on him. I just excited to see he had instant chemistry with Nicky and Ovi. Dude only played 13 mins though. I hope he gets more ice time.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Re: Holtby, there's a fairly long piece in the Post from Alex Prewitt on the goaltending.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...80116c-6531-11e4-836c-83bc4f26eb67_story.html

 

[g00n]

Japers' Rink posted pics of the save on Wilson. He definitely had room to go upstairs. He was standing at the edge of the trapezoid extended.

Yes there was room but that doesn't mean he could've easily hit the shot. The replay angle from behind Wilson showed the puck start to rise off the ice and tumble just before it got to Wilson. Great play just to get a shot on net with any speed.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Yes there was room but that doesn't mean he could've easily hit the shot. The replay angle from behind Wilson showed the puck start to rise off the ice and tumble just before it got to Wilson. Great play just to get a shot on net with any speed.

Sure, just saying space wasn't the issue. Someone had mentioned it.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Here's a piece by Gormley! on why the Caps coaches used spray paint at practice yesterday.

Trotz & Co. appear to be addressing literally everything we are complaining about here. Reassuring to know the coaching staff sees the same things we do, and a big departure from the last couple seasons. Oates probably would have made Wilson try a blade with a little more loft.

 

[g00n]

Sure, just saying space wasn't the issue. Someone had mentioned it.

OK. There have been some windy posts I confess to only skimming