GDT: Canucks Training Camp Thread | FINISHED

[Soups On]

I've never heard of a treatment protocol for tendonitis that did not involve significant amount of rest.

This is also the first time I hear about Petey suffering a tendon tear.

Depends who you ask and the level of imaging - tendons can have microtears that can contribute to inflammation and can simultaneously have inflammation without tears. I was just referencing some of the terminology in one of the reviews.

Significant rest for you is different than an elite athlete. Additionally, tendonitis can have various grades of severity. Some rest is fine during an acute flare up but that's often managed with lower intensity types of exercises.

Look at any tendonitis protocol, except tennis elbow, and isometric/eccentric loads are introduced very early on. It's very patient specific based on their respective load tolerance - again, this will differ between an elite athlete and the layman.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Depends who you ask and the level of imaging - tendons can have microtears that can contribute to inflammation and can simultaneously have inflammation without tears. I was just referencing some of the terminology in one of the reviews.

Significant rest for you is different than an elite athlete. Additionally, tendonitis can have various grades of severity. Some rest is fine during an acute flare up but that's often managed with lower intensity types of exercises.

Look at any tendonitis protocol, except tennis elbow, and isometric/eccentric loads are introduced very early on. It's very patient specific based on their respective load tolerance - again, this will differ between an elite athlete and the layman.

Sounds like rest is involved in all these cases.

 

[ChilliBilly]

View attachment 908941

Thanks. Was thinking he was still on an ELC. Glad to see he will get well paid this year.

 

[Jerry the great]

I would imagine with his pedigree he has takers.

Pedigree? he was a 6th round pick who has put up mediocre stats in 100 pro games in NA.....has no leverage and asking for a trade when a proven NHL backup just signed for less than he is making this season would be criminally short sighted/stupid.

 

[Soups On]

Sounds like rest is involved in all these cases.

what. I mean, yeah sure. But not complete rest or significant rest as you called it. Of course if an injury is acute, you probably shouldn't load the f*** out of the respective tissue. The days the team didn't play, Petey was likely getting enough rest to reduce the accumulated load on his tendon.

I'm unsure what you are trying to get out of this conversation right now. I've provided sources as well as given you my own respective knowledge as a relative expert in this field. Are you arguing that Petey should've played less and taken some time off from hockey? I agree in retrospect that he should have but like I said before, there are dozens of confounding and contextual factors that we simply don't have access to that led the medical and rehab team giving Petey the clearance to play. If this was something more clearcut like an ACL strain in which protocols are very much standardized, then I'd be with you saying a complete shut down would be necessary. But it's a tendonitis and like I explained above, it's incredibly patient specific and follows more of a gradient in rehab.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

what. I mean, yeah sure. But not complete rest or significant rest as you called it. Of course if an injury is acute, you probably shouldn't load the f*** out of the respective tissue. The days the team didn't play, Petey was likely getting enough rest to reduce the accumulated load on his tendon.

I'm unsure what you are trying to get out of this conversation right now. I've provided sources as well as given you my own respective knowledge as a relative expert in this field. Are you arguing that Petey should've played less and taken some time off from hockey? I agree in retrospect that he should have but like I said before, there are dozens of confounding and contextual factors that we simply don't have access to that led the medical and rehab team giving Petey the clearance to play. If this was something more clearcut like an ACL strain in which protocols are very much standardized, then I'd be with you saying a complete shut down would be necessary. But it's a tendonitis and like I explained above, it's incredibly patient specific and follows more of a gradient in rehab.

You made a very broad statement about rest and tendonitis.

From what I now gather is that, you meant that the problem wont go away with rest alone. This is fair.

I work with a team that rehabs injured pro athletes here in Finland and this was the first time I ever hear anyone say that tendonitis doesn't heal with rest.

Rest is key. Its a strain injury and if you dont limit said strain for a time, the tendon wont get to heal.

 

[Diversification]

Ooh physio controversy. Let’s hear your professional opinions on the popliteus muscle @PuckMunchkin and @Soups On ….

Canucks’ Thatcher Demko’s injury is to the Popliteus Muscle: report

On the first day of training camp last week, Vancouver Canucks goalten...

canucksarmy.com

 

[Caboose]

Ooh physio controversy. Let’s hear your professional opinions on the popliteus muscle @PuckMunchkin and @Soups On ….

Canucks’ Thatcher Demko’s injury is to the Popliteus Muscle: report

On the first day of training camp last week, Vancouver Canucks goalten...

canucksarmy.com

When it comes to tendonitis and tendinopathies, prevailing sentiment has changed in the last number of years led by the NBA and the number of Knee and Ankle issues they have.

Rest, especially too much rest is seen as a bad thing, allowing scar tissue to build up may allow pain and limited mobility relief, but greatly effects performance of the tendon and region in the long run.

The soonest your pain tolerance allows, training the tendon progressively at full range of motion may have temporary pain, but it limits scar tissue and greatly strengthens the tendon and region in the long term.

This is purely from a high end athlete perspective. General best practice for public is rest, rest, rest. But this no longer applies for athletes like EP. No pain, no gain, Petey.

 

[WTG]

Ooh physio controversy. Let’s hear your professional opinions on the popliteus muscle @PuckMunchkin and @Soups On ….

Canucks’ Thatcher Demko’s injury is to the Popliteus Muscle: report

On the first day of training camp last week, Vancouver Canucks goalten...

canucksarmy.com

As an expert on the field as of 5 minutes ago. I have found the timetable for recovery that I will now believe 100%.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Ooh physio controversy. Let’s hear your professional opinions on the popliteus muscle @PuckMunchkin and @Soups On ….

Canucks’ Thatcher Demko’s injury is to the Popliteus Muscle: report

On the first day of training camp last week, Vancouver Canucks goalten...

canucksarmy.com

Popliteus injury is nothing that a good north american bad ass cant play through.

Did not mean it to sound like a controversy at all.
Seems like mostly a misunderstanding.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

When it comes to tendonitis and tendinopathies, prevailing sentiment has changed in the last number of years led by the NBA and the number of Knee and Ankle issues they have.

Rest, especially too much rest is seen as a bad thing, allowing scar tissue to build up may allow pain and limited mobility relief, but greatly effects performance of the tendon and region in the long run.

The soonest your pain tolerance allows, training the tendon progressively at full range of motion may have temporary pain, but it limits scar tissue and greatly strengthens the tendon and region in the long term.

This is purely from a high end athlete perspective. General best practice for public is rest, rest, rest. But this no longer applies for athletes like EP. No pain, no gain, Petey.

This sounds really solid to me.

Just another thought... high end athletes ability to recover, from injury or just heavy work load can honestly be pretty bizarre to witness.

I can have pain in my neck for weeks if I turn my head too fast to back up my KIA.

They can get folded in half against the boards and be sore for a few days but good to go the next.

 

[Vector]

This sounds really solid to me.

Just another thought... high end athletes ability to recover, from injury or just heavy work load can honestly be pretty bizarre to witness.

I can have pain in my neck for weeks if I turn my head too fast to back up my KIA.

They can get folded in half against the boards and be sore for a few days but good to go the next.

Brent Sopel once through-out his back picking up a cracker off the floor. Athletes, they're just like us...sometimes!

 

[DL44]

You made a very broad statement about rest and tendonitis.

From what I now gather is that, you meant that the problem wont go away with rest alone. This is fair.

I work with a team that rehabs injured pro athletes here in Finland and this was the first time I ever hear anyone say that tendonitis doesn't heal with rest.

Rest is key. Its a strain injury and if you dont limit said strain for a time, the tendon wont get to heal.

Rest is the key... but it's not a pure activity on/off situation.
You want to rest from high level/max activity, but recovery better while incorporating controled loading/unloading strength excercises...
So yes you are "resting" relative to performance level work... but not actually.

But pure rest has seemingly ALWAYS been not recommened... continuing to load/unload the tendon has always been practice to minimize scar tissue formation which further impacts the intergrity of the tendon.

Results and rates of re-imflammation much better than with complete rest.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Rest is the key... but it's not a pure activity on/off situation.
You want to rest from high level/max activity, but recovery better while incorporating controled loading/unloading strength excercises...
So yes you are "resting" relative to performance level work... but not actually.

But pure rest has seemingly ALWAYS been not recommened... continuing to load/unload the tendon has always been practice to minimize scar tissue formation which further impacts the intergrity of the tendon.

Results and rates of re-imflammation much better than with complete rest.

Maybe in some very rare cases you dont need the actual rest phase to start the recovery process.

 

[RandV]

I can understand not being happy about it. He goes to Abby, he takes a 85 - 90 % pay cut. He has never had a chance to cash in; he probably could make more money in Europe. And he has another 2 years before he become a RFA. If he gets seriously injured he basically walks away from hockey with nothing. Goalies get seriously screwed by system, since the only reason that Silovs will be in Abby is because he doesn't have to clear waivers.

Yes I see no problem with his statement. A lot of ifs involved but if everyone gets healthy and looks to remain healthy, Silvos play carries forward from the post season, and there's not much difference between him and Lankinen, then the Canucks should be accommodating here rather than stashing Silvos in the minors for most of the season. At most a temporary demotion while they work out a trade for Lankinen, as by that point another team will probably have a goalie injury and could use him.

Basically Silvos is the prospect we're developing for the long term. Lankinen is an emergency 1 year signing that we got to underpay because no one else needed him, and will be gone next season. No need to screw around with Silvos running 3 healthy goalies here.

 

[Jerry the great]

Brent Sopel once through-out his back picking up a cracker off the floor. Athletes, they're just like us...sometimes!

that sounds racist

 

[Vector]

that sounds racist

I had fallen down so he was just trying to help.

 

[supercanuck]

This sounds really solid to me.

Just another thought... high end athletes ability to recover, from injury or just heavy work load can honestly be pretty bizarre to witness.

I can have pain in my neck for weeks if I turn my head too fast to back up my KIA.

They can get folded in half against the boards and be sore for a few days but good to go the next.

. Once just before Xmas, my kids asked me to do the floss. 2 seconds later I twisted my hip/back area so badly I couldn't get out of bed for a week and pretty much ruined Xmas

 

[Soups On]

Rest is the key... but it's not a pure activity on/off situation.
You want to rest from high level/max activity, but recovery better while incorporating controled loading/unloading strength excercises...
So yes you are "resting" relative to performance level work... but not actually.

But pure rest has seemingly ALWAYS been not recommened... continuing to load/unload the tendon has always been practice to minimize scar tissue formation which further impacts the intergrity of the tendon.

Results and rates of re-imflammation much better than with complete rest.

Exactly. It's load tolerance and dose dependent. I think I was pretty clear.

A degenerative tendon needs rest in the short term to calm shit down but immediate optimal loading to recover and rebuild. I've never heard of straight and complete rest for a tendon.

Pain with tendon loading is okay if it falls within specific parameters and the 24 hour window rule whereas pain with something like runners knee ends up having a negative cost-benefit outcome.

Seen way too many patients that have had years of chronic tendonitis because they were so poorly loaded. It's very frustrating because the literature is quite clear.

 

[racerjoe]

Well since this has turned into a physio thread… any advice on rehab for a torn calf? Did it a week ago, at the stage where I can walk with some discomfort.

 

[LordBacon]

As an expert on the field as of 5 minutes ago. I have found the timetable for recovery that I will now believe 100%.

View attachment 908987

Finally, an expert with reliable research to back up his claims.

 

[tantalum]

Brent Sopel once through-out his back picking up a cracker off the floor. Athletes, they're just like us...sometimes!

Dustin Penner put his out tucking into a delicious stack of pancakes.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Brent Sopel once through-out his back picking up a cracker off the floor. Athletes, they're just like us...sometimes!

I've had bad back issues on two occasions. I have a pretty good idea what actually caused them, but the triggering incident in both cases was completely mundane.

 

[ChilliBilly]

I've had bad back issues on two occasions. I have a pretty good idea what actually caused them, but the triggering incident in both cases was completely mundane.

I have 8 different back issues over the last 5 years. only one of them was caused by overdoing it (lifting weights ignorantly nearly 50 years ago - fractured 2 vertebrae). The major one is a herniated disk, that took over 5 months to heal, and I have had 4 - 5 relapses. All of these were caused by either pickleball or golf. As you say, mundane.

 

[BluesyShoes]

once they play their first two exhibition games, expect the roster to be trimmed pretty quickly and tocchett will want to get some chemistry for certain guys to get going before their opener october 4th.

Don't disagree, just pointing out the home opener is on October 9th. The home game on the 4th is the last pre-season game, so roster is likely mostly finalized for that game.