Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign RD Vincent Desharnais 2-Year, $2M AAV Contract

[DFAC]

Eh maybe, recently more comparable, but Forbort has way more of a track record doing it (usually averages ~3 mins per game short-handed). He's been on the Bruins leading PK pair with Carlo for a few seasons, and Boston has had a top 10 (regularly top 3) PK for that period. Desharnais did really well for the Oilers in the playoffs when his PK minutes jumped to near 3 mins, but was largely on their second PK pair with Ekholm in the regular season. They are both basically elite in this regard:

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Jesus christ, I've never seen 99% on the PK let alone 2 players, lol.

 

[Jack Burton]

Like this signing. Biggest area of concern on defence in the playoffs was surprisingly Hughes-Hronek, never would’ve assumed that in a million years, but they were getting absolutely hammered out there, the playoffs are a totally different animal, Myers-Soucy were bending but not breaking and pushing back, Zadorov obviously held his own, but Hughes-Hronek needed to be sheltered in the playoffs which was concerning.

How do you stop speed and skill? You hit it.

It will be like that for the rest of Hughes career. The game plan in the playoffs against Hughes will always be dump the puck into his corner and smoke him with a solid hit.,,,,over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over again till ya win the series.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

How do you stop speed and skill? You hit it.

It will be like that for the rest of Hughes career. The game plan in the playoffs against Hughes will always be dump the puck into his corner and smoke him with a solid hit.,,,,over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over again till ya win the series.

we are OT but it wouldn’t have been nearly as much of a problem if hughes had had a partner he could feel safe passing it to instead of trying to skate it out on his own every single time and yes getting smoked repeatedly in the process. man hronek was bonkers bad in the playoffs.

but back on topic, i think the deadline is where this blueline really takes shape. just like 94, when we added brown and hedican (plus the underrated brian glynn off waivers) and traded away robert dirk and banished slegr and adrian plavsic to the press box. our third pair all year was some combo of dirk, slegr, and plavsic and all of a sudden all three were gone. we went into the playoff with lumme-murzyn, diduck-babych, hedican-brown and when murzyn got hurt glynn slid in.

my guess is we will rent a real top four RD to play with hughes, slide hronek down with soucy, and also rent a safe LD for the third pair with desharnais and myers splitting time with him.

longterm of course the hope is that something can be unlocked here with desharnais but i think it’s more a case of him slowly taking minutes from myers over the next two years and we’ll see if he is worth re-investing in when his deal is up.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Like this pick up the more I think about it.

It seems PA and team not comfortable with the UFA cost for some of those coveted top 4 RD particularly the term for players already up there in age.

More comfortable with the value in taking an average level defender at low cost and term and develop that player to get the most out of them, than significantly overpay for an above average skill set out of the box.

 

[bossram]

Poolman only played for one organization prior to joining the Canucks. By definition he wasn't a journeyman. I don't think we're going to agree here which is fine.

He didn't become a full-time NHLer until like 26, at which point he showed his upside to be capped at like 3rd pair level. If you don't want to call that a journeyman, that's fine.

My other points are correct and you don't really have any legit counters for them. Poolman cost 25% more and was twice the term, in the flat cap era. It is fundamentally not the same type of bet/contract.

 

[ziploc]

Didn't like this pick up when I first heard about it, but it's growing on me. The PK utility between VD (that can't be his nickname) and Forbort alone could be massive. But I think they are trying to grab players right on the edge of taking the step to the next level, and I think that's what they see in Vinny.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Eh maybe, recently more comparable, but Forbort has way more of a track record doing it (usually averages ~3 mins per game short-handed). He's been on the Bruins leading PK pair with Carlo for a few seasons, and Boston has had a top 10 (regularly top 3) PK for that period. Desharnais did really well for the Oilers in the playoffs when his PK minutes jumped to near 3 mins, but was largely on their second PK pair with Ekholm in the regular season. They are both basically elite in this regard:

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I mean ...yeah, the guy with 500 games played will have more of a track record doing anything than the guy with 100

A 3 year window favors Forbort in a comparison - it doesn't reflect Desharnais remarkable development curve. But this is pedantic - they're both awesome PKers.

 

[Hit the post]

He didn't become a full-time NHLer until like 26, at which point he showed his upside to be capped at like 3rd pair level. If you don't want to call that a journeyman, that's fine.

My other points are correct and you don't really have any legit counters for them. Poolman cost 25% more and was twice the term, in the flat cap era. It is fundamentally not the same type of bet/contract.

That's probably the biggest issue. In the current "seemingly rising cap period", his contract wouldn't seem so bad. Probably the only good free agent defenseman signing in 7 years by the previous management crew was Luke Schenn (a pretty solid addition). I lump Stecher more with the amateur scouts vs pro scouts.

 

[MS]

He didn't become a full-time NHLer until like 26, at which point he showed his upside to be capped at like 3rd pair level. If you don't want to call that a journeyman, that's fine.

My other points are correct and you don't really have any legit counters for them. Poolman cost 25% more and was twice the term, in the flat cap era. It is fundamentally not the same type of bet/contract.

To be fair to Poolman, he was an adequate #6 defender and if he'd been signed for 2 years/$1.5 million AAV that would have been a totally reasonable signing. It's just that (as usual) the term/AAV from Benning was, like, nearly double what it should have been.

 

[bossram]

To be fair to Poolman, he was an adequate #6 defender and if he'd been signed for 2 years/$1.5 million AAV that would have been a totally reasonable signing. It's just that (as usual) the term/AAV from Benning was, like, nearly double what it should have been.

Agreed. But that's why I'm saying that this is not "another Poolman deal" as the other poster was. Poolman was signed for too much money for double the length, during the flat cap era. It's not analogous at all.

 

[credulous]

Agreed. But that's why I'm saying that this is not "another Poolman deal" as the other poster was. Poolman was signed for too much money for double the length, during the flat cap era. It's not analogous at all.

i never compared the contract to poolman. i said if desharnais isn't a regular it's another poolman situation where you have a moderately low cap hit for an unproductive player haunting your cap sheet

 

[Hit the post]

i never compared the contract to poolman. i said if desharnais isn't a regular it's another poolman situation where you have a moderately low cap hit for an unproductive player haunting your cap sheet

Less than a million cap hit if buried in the minors vs about a million and a half in Poolman (even ignoring Poolman double the length of his contract). At worst, a Poolman lite imho (especially when you consider cap environment in the league at the time).

 

[Josepho]

even if he sucks i honestly think this contract is probably tradeable without any sweeteners.

i don't think the NTC details are confirmed though.

 

[bossram]

i never compared the contract to poolman. i said if desharnais isn't a regular it's another poolman situation where you have a moderately low cap hit for an unproductive player haunting your cap sheet

1. Yes, this is a comparison you are making.

2. It's not "another Poolman situation", as I've said repeatedly. Even if Vinny D flops (I don't expect this), he is much more moveable and it is much easier for Allvin to get out of the situation considering he makes 20% less (in the cap inflating era vs. cap flat era) and has 50% of the term.

3. Poolman is "haunting the cap sheet" because of a career ending injury. Like, he literally can't play. Are you saying VD is going to suffer a career ending injury and just be on LTIR the whole time?

Seriously man. None of your points are relevant or make sense.

 

[EpochLink]

11 pages on Desharnais, ya'll need to enjoy the beach today.

 

[F A N]

He didn't become a full-time NHLer until like 26, at which point he showed his upside to be capped at like 3rd pair level. If you don't want to call that a journeyman, that's fine.

I don't consider someone who has only played for one organization a journeyman. So Joshua isn't a journeyman and our own BREEZEbOIS isn't a journeyman either (AHL Dman would be more correct).

My other points are correct and you don't really have any legit counters for them. Poolman cost 25% more and was twice the term, in the flat cap era. It is fundamentally not the same type of bet/contract.

I'm not saying you're wrong. We just disagree that the player had upside (which is a moot point now). Like you said, "He was intended to be a 4/5 D." Was he overpaid and given a surprisingly long term based on our perception of the player at the time? Yes. But Poolman was playing Top 4 minutes towards the second half of the season and in the playoffs for the Jets. It wasn't unreasonable to expect him to log 18-20 minutes and play a key role on the PK. A premium was paid for a RHD with size who was still in his prime. It was a bet that didn't work out.

 

[bossram]

I don't consider someone who has only played for one organization a journeyman. So Joshua isn't a journeyman and our own BREEZEbOIS isn't a journeyman either (AHL Dman would be more correct).



I'm not saying you're wrong. We just disagree that the player had upside (which is a moot point now). Like you said, "He was intended to be a 4/5 D." Was he overpaid and given a surprisingly long term based on our perception of the player at the time? Yes. But Poolman was playing Top 4 minutes towards the second half of the season and in the playoffs for the Jets. It wasn't unreasonable to expect him to log 18-20 minutes and play a key role on the PK. A premium was paid for a RHD with size who was still in his prime. It was a bet that didn't work out.

1. Like I said already, if you disagree with the "journeyman" label, that's fine. It's not really the main point I'm making.

2. Yes, we disagree he didn't have upside. He never had any puck-moving or offensive ability to speak of, which basically capped his ceiling at a 4/5D that maybe could cut it higher in the lineup next to an elite partner.

3. It was a bad bet, given the cap hit and term. I have time for decent bets that don't work out. Poolman was just fundamentally a bad bet.

 

[Hit the post]

11 pages on Desharnais, ya'll need to enjoy the beach today.

A change of pace from the previous regime eh?

 

[ProviesGhost]

Wonder if Edmonton actually tried to re-sign this guy.

 

[ManVanFan]

Wonder if Edmonton actually tried to re-sign this guy.

Vincent Desharnais brings a big presence at a big price to the Canucks blueline

<em>This article is brought to you by bet365!</em> Of the several p...

canucksarmy.com

We’re in the dregs now. Desharnais is, and probably always will be, a bottom-pairing defender. We put him on the list because A) he’s big, B), he’s had fine success pairing with some of the Oilers’ more skilled LHDs, and C) he’s currently playing decent minutes for the Oilers on route to the Stanley Cup Finals.
But he’s not at all top-four material.

Sizeable defenders are in in the NHL, especially when it comes to the postseason. For evidence, just look at the average size of the bluelines for Stanely Cup Finalists Florida and Edmonton, the latter of which Desharnais featured on (though he only dressed for one game in the Finals.)

 

[TruGr1t]

Wonder if Edmonton actually tried to re-sign this guy.

They aren't in a position to sign anyone really, with their cap situation. I'm sure if they didn't have the ultra-cap anchor pairing of Nurse and Ceci they would have tried.

 

[Lindgren]

How do you stop speed and skill? You hit it.

It will be like that for the rest of Hughes career. The game plan in the playoffs against Hughes will always be dump the puck into his corner and smoke him with a solid hit.,,,,over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over again till ya win the series.

Ah, precisely the strategy the Bruins used to try to slow down JC Tremblay. Hughes needs the right partner to help him deal with it.

 

[Lindgren]

I don't consider someone who has only played for one organization a journeyman. So Joshua isn't a journeyman and our own BREEZEbOIS isn't a journeyman either (AHL Dman would be more correct).



I'm not saying you're wrong. We just disagree that the player had upside (which is a moot point now). Like you said, "He was intended to be a 4/5 D." Was he overpaid and given a surprisingly long term based on our perception of the player at the time? Yes. But Poolman was playing Top 4 minutes towards the second half of the season and in the playoffs for the Jets. It wasn't unreasonable to expect him to log 18-20 minutes and play a key role on the PK. A premium was paid for a RHD with size who was still in his prime. It was a bet that didn't work out.

Interestingly (maybe...), the term "journeyman" never had anything to do with someone going on a "journey." It derives from the French "Journée," and I think originally referred to how a worker is paid (daily). A journeyman carpenter, to take one example, isn't one who moves around, but simply one who meets a certain basic standard.

 

[Jerry the great]

Ah, precisely the strategy the Bruins used to try to slow down JC Tremblay. Hughes needs the right partner to help him deal with it.

that's why he worked so well with Luke Schenn, who could easily absorb that punishment and get Hughes the puck. Might work with Vinny too, but if not, the signing is probably worth doing considering the PK utility and overall fit in our system.....if there's more in him, I trust our coaching staff to get it out.

 

[F A N]

Interestingly (maybe...), the term "journeyman" never had anything to do with someone going on a "journey." It derives from the French "Journée," and I think originally referred to how a worker is paid (daily). A journeyman carpenter, to take one example, isn't one who moves around, but simply one who meets a certain basic standard.

I'm not disputing that "journeyman" has a different meaning in other professions. In hockey, it has come to mean a player who has played for multiple teams. I don't believe the term journeyman is used in hockey to describe a career 4th line player or 6th Dman who has had a long NHL career playing for one team. As such, I disagree with bossram's definition because that would mean players like Dakota Joshua is a journeyman at the time we signed him as well.