Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign RD Vincent Desharnais 2-Year, $2M AAV Contract

[credulous]

From my exchange with @TruGr1t in another thread. I think there is reason for optimism on Desharnais and really no reason to criticize this signing. Allvin did well to pick up a guy they think will fit their system, but not pay a premium for the player type that other teams did.

the risk is he's another poolman and doesn't get in the lineup and ends up being a 2m cap hit for no real utility

i don't mind gambling on projects but desharnais' cost does make him a real risk

 

[bossram]

the risk is he's another poolman and doesn't get in the lineup and ends up being a 2m cap hit for no real utility

i don't mind gambling on projects but desharnais' cost does make him a real risk

I think given his defensive impacts and PK ability, he's worth $2M right now.

And I don't really get the Poolman comparison. Poolman didn't get in the lineup...because he had a career-ending injury. The Poolman deal is also twice as along and 25% more expensive, during the flat cap era. The Desharnais deal is drastically better value.

 

[wonton15]

I hated this at first but I’m warming up to it a bit as Foote/Gonchar/Tocchet targetted this guy and clearly have a plan for how his prototype fits into our system. We are going to be a nightmare to play against again.

 

[credulous]

I think given his defensive impacts and PK ability, he's worth $2M right now.

And I don't really get the Poolman comparison. Poolman didn't get in the lineup...because he had a career-ending injury. The Poolman deal is also twice as along and 25% more expensive, during the flat cap era. The Desharnais deal is drastically better value.

he was a scratch in the playoffs for the oilers who do not have any defensive depth

i think you're way underselling the chances he's just not a regular nhler

 

[Jyrki]

I hated this at first but I’m warming up to it a bit as Foote/Gonchar/Tocchet targetted this guy and clearly have a plan for how his prototype fits into our system. We are going to be a nightmare to play against again.

Will we be hard to play against if half our D can't string together tape-to-tape passes? That was a serious issue in the playoffs and we'll have that problem again headed into next season.

 

[F A N]

I think given his defensive impacts and PK ability, he's worth $2M right now.

And I don't really get the Poolman comparison. Poolman didn't get in the lineup...because he had a career-ending injury. The Poolman deal is also twice as along and 25% more expensive, during the flat cap era. The Desharnais deal is drastically better value.

I actually thought Poolman was pretty good. It is hard to evaluate the player given the small sample size and how poor the team was defensively. Supply and demand also changes. But $2.5M for a 31 year old RHD with Poolman's skill set isn't a bad deal today. It was a an upside bet that unfortunately didn't pan out.

 

[wonton15]

Will we be hard to play against if half our D can't string together tape-to-tape passes? That was a serious issue in the playoffs and we'll have that problem again headed into next season.

The defense is more or less the same with a downgrade in Cole to start the year. We looked dominant with Hughes/Hronek and a stable Soucy/Myers running the big minutes to start. No doubt they’ll be looking for a signing in late FA or trade during the year for a D, but it’s really not the end of the world to run two bottom pairing defenders on the bottom pair.

 

[TruGr1t]

The defense is more or less the same with a downgrade in Cole to start the year. We looked dominant with Hughes/Hronek and a stable Soucy/Myers running the big minutes to start. No doubt they’ll be looking for a signing in late FA or trade during the year for a D, but it’s really not the end of the world to run two bottom pairing defenders on the bottom pair.

According to Drance, the team basically thinks Forbort is more than an adequate Cole replacement (I assume they've checked his health), and that they can turn Desharnais into some sort of Zadorov comparable on the right side. We'll see how right there on those assessments.

 

[bossram]

he was a scratch in the playoffs for the oilers who do not have any defensive depth

i think you're way underselling the chances he's just not a regular nhler

He was scratched in the back half of the playoffs, but it was more because of Knoblauch's deference to veterans. There is no reason that Desharnais should have been scratched ahead of Nurse or Ceci.

We'll see who is right. I think my evaluation of Desharnais as a useful, 3rd pair, defensive asset today is pretty accurate.

 

[bossram]

I actually thought Poolman was pretty good. It is hard to evaluate the player given the small sample size and how poor the team was defensively. Supply and demand also changes. But $2.5M for a 31 year old RHD with Poolman's skill set isn't a bad deal today. It was a an upside bet that unfortunately didn't pan out.

There was no upside. He was a veteran journeyman basically, and had shown zero offensive ability to that point. He was intended to be a 4/5 D that could maybe caddy Hughes, and $2.5M for that in the flat cap era was more than worth what Poolman was projected to provide.

I would waaaaay rather pay Desharnais 2x2 than the next Poolman 2.5 x 4.

 

[credulous]

He was scratched in the back half of the playoffs, but it was more because of Knoblauch's deference to veterans. There is no reason that Desharnais should have been scratched ahead of Nurse or Ceci.

We'll see who is right. I think my evaluation of Desharnais as a useful, 3rd pair, defensive asset today is pretty accurate.

i'm not saying he's guaranteed to be bad. i'm just saying there's a very real chance he ends up in the press box more than on the ice and if that's the case this will be a mildly obnoxious cap problem for the next couple of years

even if he is a useful 6th/7th d there's a real chance he ends up in the box because they end up needing a better puck mover on the 3rd pair and they end up with a right handed guy

 

[TruGr1t]

i'm not saying he's guaranteed to be bad. i'm just saying there's a very real chance he ends up in the press box more than on the ice and if that's the case this will be a mildly obnoxious cap problem for the next couple of years

even if he is a useful 6th/7th d there's a real chance he ends up in the box because they end up needing a better puck mover on the 3rd pair and they end up with a right handed guy

I think the consensus is he's better than Juulsen/Friedman so I'm not sure how he ends up in the press box outside of another acquisition, or he drops off measurably from how he played last year. The fact Tocchet/Foote vouched for him will probably also give him a longer leash than those other depth guys. Forbort and Desharnais are clearly #5/6 in my mind.

 

[credulous]

I think the consensus is he's better than Juulsen/Friedman so I'm not sure how he ends up in the press box outside of another acquisition, or he drops off measurably from how he played last year. The fact Tocchet/Foote vouched for him will probably also give him a longer leash than those other depth guys. Forbort and Desharnais are clearly #5/6 in my mind.

if the bottom pairing can't handle forecheckers because neither of them can handle the puck (and both of them are awful with the puck) i can see friedman getting back in or maybe even woo or mcward being given a shot. the only other real alternative is swapping soucy and forbort and i'm skeptical that would work any better

 

[bossram]

i'm not saying he's guaranteed to be bad. i'm just saying there's a very real chance he ends up in the press box more than on the ice and if that's the case this will be a mildly obnoxious cap problem for the next couple of years

even if he is a useful 6th/7th d there's a real chance he ends up in the box because they end up needing a better puck mover on the 3rd pair and they end up with a right handed guy

Yes, there is * a chance*. I don't think it's very high at all.

I'm saying on the balance of probabilities, I think by far the most likely outcome is that Desharnais is a serviceable 3rd pair guy that also provides great PK utility, and the price paid by Allvin reflects this.

There is also *a chance* that as a late bloomer, Desharnais develops further and delivers fantastic value over the life of this deal.

 

[TruGr1t]

if the bottom pairing can't handle forecheckers because neither of them can handle the puck (and both of them are awful with the puck) i can see friedman getting back in or maybe even woo or mcward being given a shot. the only other real alternative is swapping soucy and forbort and i'm skeptical that would work any better

They basically did everything in their power not to play Friedman last year, so I think he's really a "pull in case of emergency" type guy. He also played a game at forward if I recall. I think he's purely depth and won't see much ice outside of injury. The way they're talking they also don't view Juulsen as much more than a #7 depth type guy, so I think Desharnais will be given all the chances to be an every-day player.

Sure though, anything could happen, and I'm sure there will be injuries.

 

[credulous]

Yes, there is * a chance*. I don't think it's very high at all.

I'm saying on the balance of probabilities, I think by far the most likely outcome is that Desharnais is a serviceable 3rd pair guy that also provides great PK utility, and the price paid by Allvin reflects this.

There is also *a chance* that as a late bloomer, Desharnais develops further and delivers fantastic value over the life of this deal.

regardless of what happens with desharnais i think this signing is open to criticism because they have 5 guys who struggle to win back and play out the puck amongst their 7d and the two that can do it both play on the same pairing

if desharnais was signed for like 500k less or they had another puck mover in the bottom six and they cut forbort then desharnais is probably fine and won't hurt at all

i just think it's a questionable signing when soucy, myers, juulsen and forbort were all already under contract

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

I think he is gonna surprise quite a few on here. He looked really good for the first 2 rounds then looked like he got hurt and tried to play through which got ended up in him being benched. He Kulak were quite good against the Canucks, when Nurse and Ceci were unplayable. Also if he was so bad as some of you say should the Canucks have carved him up in game 6 and 7 when he played almost 20 mins. It was pretty clear he got hurt in that first game against the Stars.

 

[MS]

regardless of what happens with desharnais i think this signing is open to criticism because they have 5 guys who struggle to win back and play out the puck amongst their 7d and the two that can do it both play on the same pairing

if desharnais was signed for like 500k less or they had another puck mover in the bottom six and they cut forbort then desharnais is probably fine and won't hurt at all

i just think it's a questionable signing when soucy, myers, juulsen and forbort were all already under contract

I agree with the big picture of what you're saying but I think the Forbort signing is the bigger problem than the Desharnais signing.

I think Desharnais works very well as the 3RD. The issue is that we've basically duplicated Soucy with an older, worse, injury prone version as the 3LD when we should have gone for more of a two-way defender there.

And yeah, listening to Oiler fans it looks like his scratches in the back half of the playoffs were more injury-related than anything. He was very solid in the series against us.

 

[credulous]

I agree with the big picture of what you're saying but I think the Forbort signing is the bigger problem than the Desharnais signing.

I think Desharnais works very well as the 3RD. The issue is that we've basically duplicated Soucy with an older, worse, injury prone version as the 3LD when we should have gone for more of a two-way defender there.

And yeah, listening to Oiler fans it looks like his scratches in the back half of the playoffs were more injury-related than anything. He was very solid in the series against us.

forbort's contract is definitely also a problem but it's a year less and 500k less (so pretty easy to bury) so his contract is much less of a problem

again i'm not against desharnais as a player or a project i just don't like the signing when they seem like they're going to use juulsen as the 7th d again and they also have forbort, myers and soucy in the lineup. they should have spent that money on a puck mover they can play in the bottom four

 

[bossram]

I agree with the big picture of what you're saying but I think the Forbort signing is the bigger problem than the Desharnais signing.

I think Desharnais works very well as the 3RD. The issue is that we've basically duplicated Soucy with an older, worse, injury prone version as the 3LD when we should have gone for more of a two-way defender there.

And yeah, listening to Oiler fans it looks like his scratches in the back half of the playoffs were more injury-related than anything. He was very solid in the series against us.

Yeah, if there is anything to criticize, it is much more the Forbort signing than Desharnais.

 

[MS]

forbort's contract is definitely also a problem but it's a year less and 500k less (so pretty easy to bury) so his contract is much less of a problem

again i'm not against desharnais as a player or a project i just don't like the signing when they seem like they're going to use juulsen as the 7th d again and they also have forbort, myers and soucy in the lineup. they should have spent that money on a puck mover they can play in the bottom four

Again, I agree with all of this except replace the concerns about Desharnais with Forbort. I like Desharnais, think he's a good bet to be a solid player and has a fair bit of upside. Why we're dicking around with a washed Forbort I have no idea and to me that was the spot where it was more logical to add a puck-mover. Especially considering that Soucy as the 2LD is more limited there than Myers as the 2RD.

 

[vancityluongo]

he was a scratch in the playoffs for the oilers who do not have any defensive depth

i think you're way underselling the chances he's just not a regular nhler

how many goals against darnell nurse was on the ice for in the playoffs? i think you're way underselling just how bad he was and how that affected desharnais. prime chris tanev couldn't have dragged that pairing to being playable. desharnais actually did drag nurse around for the regular season.

as long as he's not saddled with myers, he should be fine. soucy is a much smarter, although not as physically gifted typecast of nurse. that should be an effective pairing.

He was scratched in the back half of the playoffs, but it was more because of Knoblauch's deference to veterans. There is no reason that Desharnais should have been scratched ahead of Nurse or Ceci.

We'll see who is right. I think my evaluation of Desharnais as a useful, 3rd pair, defensive asset today is pretty accurate.

absolutely correct imo. they win the cup if they go with kulak-broberg and nurse-vd to start game 1 against florida.

 

[credulous]

Again, I agree with all of this except replace the concerns about Desharnais with Forbort. I like Desharnais, think he's a good bet to be a solid player and has a fair bit of upside. Why we're dicking around with a washed Forbort I have no idea and to me that was the spot where it was more logical to add a puck-mover. Especially considering that Soucy as the 2LD is more limited there than Myers as the 2RD.

i don't personally agree with this take but i think they want forbort for the pk. without cole they only have soucy on the left side to kill penalties and he's not the most durable guy

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

I agree with the big picture of what you're saying but I think the Forbort signing is the bigger problem than the Desharnais signing.

I think Desharnais works very well as the 3RD. The issue is that we've basically duplicated Soucy with an older, worse, injury prone version as the 3LD when we should have gone for more of a two-way defender there.

And yeah, listening to Oiler fans it looks like his scratches in the back half of the playoffs were more injury-related than anything. He was very solid in the series against us.

They did not really protect themselves against a Soucy injury who has been very injury prone. Last year they were lucky enough to trade for Zadorov when he went down, can you hope you can acquire another player of that quality in season for peanuts again I don't. That is the biggest mis step along with the lack of puck moving on the bottom pair this offseason so far.

 

[bossram]

how many goals against darnell nurse was on the ice for in the playoffs? i think you're way underselling just how bad he was and how that affected desharnais. prime chris tanev couldn't have dragged that pairing to being playable. desharnais actually did drag nurse around for the regular season.

as long as he's not saddled with myers, he should be fine. soucy is a much smarter, although not as physically gifted typecast of nurse. that should be an effective pairing.



absolutely correct imo. they win the cup if they go with kulak-broberg and nurse-vd to start game 1 against florida.

EDM fans are saying Desharnais had an injury issue, which would explain the scratchings.

But yeah, if Knobs weren't so committed to Ceci and Nurse, they win the Cup. He screwed them there.