Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign F Jason Dickinson to 3-Year, $7.95M Deal ($2.65M AAV)

[M2Beezy]

Keep rambling on with this nonsense because you feel you've caught someone with specific wording, when you are clearly overlooking/ignoring the intent and meaning of their post. I guess it helps distract and deflect from the horrible job this GM is doing.

Nail on the head right here

 

[strattonius]

Hard to argue he's been anything but total crap. A decent 4th liner at the moment and now signed to an absurd contract. He can definitely turn it around but as of now looking like another Benning special.

Will be transparent I thought this was a good signing this off-season not sure why an argument about it has to ensue. He's been a lousy signing - move on.

 

[hellstick]

Term's bad, cap hit's bad. So far he's a player not worth the billing and stop me if you've heard of that before on a Jim Benning team. However, there's bigger issues with this team than Jason Dickinson. But I suppose you can tentatively file this signing under the "Death by a thousand cuts" archives.

 

[timw33]

We should have taken this player to arbitration and called the bluff. The comparables right before his arb case was scheduled would have absolutely nuked his case.

 

[Hoglander]

He's not helping the penalty kill. He's not winning faceoffs. He's not producing points. What exactly does this guy do well? He does a good Louie Eriksson impression.

 

[Scorvat]

Thanks for this nonsense.

i don't get what youre arguing about sometimes F A N. A mistake is a mistake, even if it's in hindsight. The Ballard trade was a mistake even if other teams were willing to pay that price. This Dickinson acquisition is looking like a mistake.

Just because other teams were willing to commit to the same mistake doesn't make it any less of a mistake. And lets not act like the Dallas stars are some model org

It's not like the process of this trade was any good either. They spent a top 3 round pick on a player that was likely to be exposed in the ED and didn't fill one of the major holes on the roster (top 4 RHD, #3 matchup center)

Knowing what we now know about Dickinson, there were clearly better options available that would have cost less. Front offices are paid to know what players to commit and pay assets too and should be better then young beat writers going off of public statistics

 

[Pavel96]

Hard to argue he's been anything but total crap. A decent 4th liner at the moment and now signed to an absurd contract. He can definitely turn it around but as of now looking like another Benning special.

Will be transparent I thought this was a good signing this off-season not sure why an argument about it has to ensue. He's been a lousy signing - move on.

1. With the GM's job stability and popularity at an all time low, it's crucial to take every opportunity to prove conclusively that these underperforming FA signings were good decisions by the GM at the time he made the move.
2. Now that time has passed and the player is actually underperforming relative to that contract, as we established (1.) the GM evades responsibility for the fact the player is underperforming (The GM didn't get what he paid for that's not his fault apparently).
3. We now have a reason, or excuse, as to why the team is preforming so poorly (the players are not living up to their contracts which we have already established to be good decisions made by the GM). And again, going back to (1.) , we can now establish that the GM is not responsible for the team's dismal performance, in year 8 of his tenure.

"But players"

 

[MS]

We should have taken this player to arbitration and called the bluff. The comparables right before his arb case was scheduled would have absolutely nuked his case.

Absolutely. There would have been zero case for over $2 million relative to the Hartman and Blueger contracts that were just signed.

 

[timw33]

Absolutely. There would have been zero case for over $2 million relative to the Hartman and Blueger contracts that were just signed.

They've been so afraid of arbitration in the past with Hutton and Stetcher, which was so confusing because neither guy would really have gotten a back breaking ruling, yet the team, while being a bottom feeder, had no cap space to risk having even a slight raise on their deals.

Just shows they really don't have a handle on market comparables, what they have, what their players are actually worth, etc.

The other option in Dickinson's case, which is turning out to have been the way better option, would have been to just give him the 1 year deal to see if he even fits into our team. Sure, it walks him to UFA, but had we done that we'd get to just cut bait with him at the end of the year and probably recoup close to a third at the deadline.

 

[LaVal]

Hey, look on the bright side. Losing a 3rd rounder and "only" overpaying a replacement level 4th liner twice what they are worth is actually minimal in terms of Jim Benning level of damage.

 

[MS]

They've been so afraid of arbitration in the past with Hutton and Stetcher, which was so confusing because neither guy would really have gotten a back breaking ruling, yet the team, while being a bottom feeder, had no cap space to risk having even a slight raise on their deals.

Just shows they really don't have a handle on market comparables, what they have, what their players are actually worth, etc.

The other option in Dickinson's case, which is turning out to have been the way better option, would have been to just give him the 1 year deal to see if he even fits into our team. Sure, it walks him to UFA, but had we done that we'd get to just cut bait with him at the end of the year and probably recoup close to a third at the deadline.

I legit think they're just too lazy to go to arbitration. Cuts into their August vacation. Tons of nerd work to prepare beforehand too.

 

[timw33]

Hey, look on the bright side. Losing a 3rd rounder and "only" overpaying a replacement level 4th liner twice what they are worth is actually minimal in terms of Jim Benning level of damage.

Grading on the Benning bell curve, it's somehow one of his better transactions, which is pathetic.

 

[timw33]

I legit think they're just too lazy to go to arbitration. Cuts into their August vacation. Tons of nerd work to prepare beforehand too.

Benning and Weisbrod are probably too soft for a process that requires you to be a stone cold killer to get the best deal for your franchise.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

They've been so afraid of arbitration in the past with Hutton and Stetcher, which was so confusing because neither guy would really have gotten a back breaking ruling, yet the team, while being a bottom feeder, had no cap space to risk having even a slight raise on their deals.

Just shows they really don't have a handle on market comparables, what they have, what their players are actually worth, etc.

The other option in Dickinson's case, which is turning out to have been the way better option, would have been to just give him the 1 year deal to see if he even fits into our team. Sure, it walks him to UFA, but had we done that we'd get to just cut bait with him at the end of the year and probably recoup close to a third at the deadline.

It wouldn't even of walked him to UFA. You have to be 27 by July 1, and he was born July 4. Not going to arbitration was stupid.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Absolutely. There would have been zero case for over $2 million relative to the Hartman and Blueger contracts that were just signed.

Dickinson also had another RFA year compared to these guys.

 

[MS]

It wouldn't even of walked him to UFA. You have to be 27 by July 1, and he was born July 4. Not going to arbitration was stupid.

Dickinson also had another RFA year compared to these guys.

That's right.

@Melvin wondered at the time based on the structure of the deal whether the team had failed to realize this as it looks like they're buying a year of UFA in year 2 when he was actually an RFA. AAV goes $1.5 -> 2.7 -> 3.2.

 

[Quinning]

He's f***ing terrible.

 

[4Twenty]

What on earth.

At the time of the deal I said that :

1) this player being hyped as a 'elite defensive #3C' has been playing wing for the most part and has virtually never played in the role he's being signed for. And that his offensive production would be an issue at 3C in the modern NHL.
2) the player's 'strong analytical profile' was obviously situationally influenced in addition to being generated in a different position in a different role.
3) the contract comps for this player should put him in the $1.8 million range.

All of this has turned out to be 100% true. If anything I overestimated Dickinson. The guy can't play C and we're stuck with a huge overpayment for a decent bottom-6 winger.

And if course it makes sense to complain about 26 y/os getting signed for under $3 million if that player is only a $1.5 million player. This is how the organization blew $millions on Sbisa/Schaller/Beagle/Roussel/Gagner etc. Cap space matters.

As per your last paragraph, obviously there are bigger issues. That doesn't mean that smaller dumb decisions can't be discussed.

It’s hilarious he’s doing the exact thing in that jyrki tweet

 

[4Twenty]

i don't get what youre arguing about sometimes F A N. A mistake is a mistake, even if it's in hindsight. The Ballard trade was a mistake even if other teams were willing to pay that price. This Dickinson acquisition is looking like a mistake.

Just because other teams were willing to commit to the same mistake doesn't make it any less of a mistake. And lets not act like the Dallas stars are some model org

It's not like the process of this trade was any good either. They spent a top 3 round pick on a player that was likely to be exposed in the ED and didn't fill one of the major holes on the roster (top 4 RHD, #3 matchup center)

Knowing what we now know about Dickinson, there were clearly better options available that would have cost less. Front offices are paid to know what players to commit and pay assets too and should be better then young beat writers going off of public statistics

Fans playing the Ballard but Gillis card? Colour this guy shocked.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

That's right.

@Melvin wondered at the time based on the structure of the deal whether the team had failed to realize this as it looks like they're buying a year of UFA in year 2 when he was actually an RFA. AAV goes $1.5 -> 2.7 -> 3.2.

I think its more likely that they valued Dickinson at 2.1 for his RFA years, but backloaded because of covid. I have little faith in this management group, but I doubt no one working or negotiating the contract would not know UFA eligibility rules. But then again you think NHL management teams would know not to tamper, or not to send qualifying offers last minute like Dale Tallon.

 

[4Twenty]

Benning and Weisbrod are probably too soft for a process that requires you to be a stone cold killer to get the best deal for your franchise.

I think it’s probably that they can’t make up the opposing argument to why they want the player. It’s groupthink. Why go to arb with a guy we want. Pay him. Make him feel good.

 

[MS]

I think its more likely that they valued Dickinson at 2.1 for his RFA years, but backloaded because of covid. I have little faith in this management group, but I doubt no one working or negotiating the contract would not know UFA eligibility rules. But then again you think NHL management teams would know not to tamper, or not to send qualifying offers last minute like Dale Tallon.

Or know the rules on Tryamkin's contract. Or be able to understand how to get the roster under the cap at the start of a season without help from the league.

The weird thing was that multiple media members were also reporting that he was 1 year away from UFA and they often get the contract narrative from the team. I don't know if this is the case? But it definitely was enough to make a couple of us wonder.

 

[Scorvat]

Fans playing the Ballard but Gillis card? Colour this guy shocked.

no lol I guess I am, but he often brings it up as well

I just brought it up to show a mistake is a mistake even if Ballard made sense as an acquisition at the time and his cost was largely seen as "fair" by what other teams were willing to pay

 

[VanJack]

As other posters have pointed out, this is a deal that really isn't anything to get too worked up about, considering some of the others Benning has dropped the ball on.

The problem as I see it, is that the Canucks are constantly acquiring players via trade or free agency and completely overestimating their value. They acquire guys for 'what they think they can do', rather than what they actually 'are'.

So Sutter was supposed to be a 'foundational second line center; Gudbranson a top-four d-man; Myers a top-four d-man; Eriksson a top six winger; Beagle a third line center; Pouliot a powerplay QB; Pearson a top-six winger; Virtanen a top six winger; and the list goes on an on.

But the real problem is that the Canucks shed valuable draft picks in a lot of these deals. To be selling off draft picks for the Jason Dickinsons' of the world is the ultimate 'fail' for a team locked in lottery land.

 

[Hit the post]

Fans playing the Ballard but Gillis card? Colour this guy shocked.

Besides the fact Gilligan was been *FIRED* already.