Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign F Conor Garland to 5-Year Deal ($4.95M AAV)

logan5

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May 24, 2011
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How is this guy allowed to continue this baiting troll posting pretending to be a clueless moron
The point there is that when you are dealing in things that didn't happen, like the last part of the 19/20 season, you can basically say whatever you want. People here like to say that the Canucks were going to continue trending down, but knowing the cyclical nature of the season, they could have just as easily gone on a big winning streak. Anybody can insert their own work of fiction.
 
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Siludin

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Garland getting super overrated here. If he gets more than 50-55 points I'll be surprised
The Canucks have 5, arguably 6 forwards who should be 50+ points when healthy. I imagine whether a player hits 60, 65, 70+ points will largely depend on injuries and powerplay time.
 
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F A N

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Absolutely there is.

#1 pick that turns into 2 2nd rounders (or something like that) if the #1 would have been a lottery pick. Stuff like this happens all the time - look at the weird conditions on the Jannik Hansen pick as an example.

Give me an example then of a 1st rounder becoming two 2nd rounders if the 1st round pick was a lottery pick. You say stuff like this happens all the time then give me an example.

Hansen's pick was conditional on playoff/team performance. That's completely different and usually happens when the pick is coming from a team with Cup aspirations.
 

Dissonance Jr

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Give me an example then of a 1st rounder becoming two 2nd rounders if the 1st round pick was a lottery pick. You say stuff like this happens all the time then give me an example.

It’s rare but the Penguins essentially did full lottery protection for the 1st round pick they sent to Toronto in the Phil Kessel trade.
*If Pittsburgh qualifies for the 2016 postseason, Toronto will receive the Penguins’ 2016 first-round draft pick; and the Penguins will receive Toronto’s 2016 second-round selection. The second-round pick would be the one Toronto originally acquired from Pittsburgh for Daniel Winnik earlier this year.

*Should Pittsburgh miss the 2016 playoffs, Toronto will INSTEAD receive the Penguins’ 2017 first-round pick; with Pittsburgh getting Toronto’s 2017 second-round selection in return.

*If the Penguins were to miss the postseason the next two years, Toronto would receive Pittsburgh’s 2017 second-round draft pick and Pittsburgh would not receive a draft pick.
 

m9

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The NHL is certainly behind the times in terms of conditional picks trades. These type of deals happen all the time in the NBA and could easily be done in the NHL, but it doesn't really happen.

The easiest way to frame a trade would have been trading Miller for a conditional 2nd in a specific year where the condition is that the pick becomes a 1st if the Canucks make the playoffs. That way it's guaranteed the pick is somewhere between the 17th pick and the mid-2nd. You could add an additional pick if the pick ends up being a 2nd rounder as well for value purposes if needed.

But then you do get into the part where you're unsure if Tampa does that deal as if they have any other team willing to give up a pick with less protections then they likely make that Miller trade instead. Then you're just back to whether or not the Canucks were in position to absorb that risk at the time.
 

F A N

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The NHL is certainly behind the times in terms of conditional picks trades. These type of deals happen all the time in the NBA and could easily be done in the NHL, but it doesn't really happen.

The easiest way to frame a trade would have been trading Miller for a conditional 2nd in a specific year where the condition is that the pick becomes a 1st if the Canucks make the playoffs. That way it's guaranteed the pick is somewhere between the 17th pick and the mid-2nd. You could add an additional pick if the pick ends up being a 2nd rounder as well for value purposes if needed.

Do you have a couple of NBA examples you can refer us to?
 

bandwagonesque

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Do you have a couple of NBA examples you can refer us to?
There are dozens. I would even say most trades of 1st round picks in the NBA involve protection, and it usually lasts multiple seasons and has all kinds of complex conditions. Often a pick that doesn’t convert within 2-3 seasons becomes one or several 2nd rounders or is voided entirely.
 
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F A N

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There are dozens. I would even say most trades of 1st round picks in the NBA involve protection, and it usually lasts multiple seasons and has all kinds of complex conditions. Often a pick that doesn’t convert within 2-3 seasons becomes one or several 2nd rounders or is voided entirely.

Can you give me a couple of examples? I don’t really follow the NBA closely.
 

bandwagonesque

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Can you give me a couple of examples? I don’t really follow the NBA closely.
Here are some protections on a Pistons 1st rounder obtained by the Rockets:

"Rockets receive Pistons first round pick (top 16 protected in 2021, or top 16 in 2022, top 18 in 2023 and 2024, top 13 in 2025, top 11 in 2026 and top 9 in 2027, or Pistons will send 2027 second round pick to Houston."
 
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bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
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The amount of trade protection in the NBA is pretty crazy:

NBA Future Drafts Detailed - RealGM

The first pick on the entire list is basically an example of what has been discussed though. If the pick is in the top 14, it becomes two 2nd round picks.
Totally. What I take issue with is the idea that failing to negotiate a trade of this nature in the NHL, where it never happens, constitutes a missed opportunity. And this is leaving aside the presumption that a significantly better deal of any kind could have been negotiated, which may or may not be true.
 
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F A N

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Totally. What I take issue with is the idea that failing to negotiate a trade of this nature in the NHL, where it never happens, constitutes a missed opportunity. And this is leaving aside the presumption that a significantly better deal of any kind could have been negotiated, which may or may not be true.

Thanks m9 and you for the example.

It is interesting conceptually. Take the trade you referred me to. Basically the team trading away the pick the worst thing to happen is to progressively get better where you end up giving a #10 pick in year 5. But if you truly suck for that long the acquiring team will take pity on your team. Imagine the uproar though if an NHL team did trade a good player to a perennial bad team and end up with nothing.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Miller + Garland both around ~5 million each is highway robbery
Can't really argue with this. Garland with 39 points in 49 games for a team that was a black hole offensively. And Miller with 46 points in 53 games with the Canucks.

When you look around the NHL, these might be two of the highest value contracts in the entire league for scoring forwards.
 
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F A N

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Can't really argue with this. Garland with 39 points in 49 games for a team that was a black hole offensively. And Miller with 46 points in 53 games with the Canucks.

When you look around the NHL, these might be two of the highest value contracts in the entire league for scoring forwards.

Agreed. If Garland can bring that level of production over 82 games and we get 19-20 version of Miller those two guys would be providing quite a bit of value relative to their cap hits.
 
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bobbyb2009

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Agreed. If Garland can bring that level of production over 82 games and we get 19-20 version of Miller those two guys would be providing quite a bit of value relative to their cap hits.

IF my Aunt had balls, she would be my uncle- and actually, in today's world, there is a chance that could happen too.:)

I actually don't disagree with you, but this just made me think, that is a couple of big IF's. We could hope for a lot of if's to become reality and then the Canucks could be good again:

If OEL rebounds and becomes a top defender again.
If Petey stays healthy for a season and becomes dominant again
If Boeser comes back and takes another step forward while being an NHL skater.
If Hughes figures it out defensively and doesnt have to be sheltered
If Rathbone/Juolevi and Poolman can become second pairing guys capable of tough minutes
If we get second half or bubble Demko rather than first half of last year Demko
If Dickinson can play as a shut down 3C without being a black hole for Pod and Pearson
If Hogs doesnt have a sophomore slump and instead takes a step forward
If Meyers can play with one of the young guys without it becoming a train wreck defensively
Etc.

But I think I might try to remain positive and hope for my Aunt to get some balls...

I am mostly just being sarcastic...
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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IF my Aunt had balls, she would be my uncle- and actually, in today's world, there is a chance that could happen too.:)

I actually don't disagree with you, but this just made me think, that is a couple of big IF's. We could hope for a lot of if's to become reality and then the Canucks could be good again:

If OEL rebounds and becomes a top defender again.
If Petey stays healthy for a season and becomes dominant again
If Boeser comes back and takes another step forward while being an NHL skater.
If Hughes figures it out defensively and doesnt have to be sheltered
If Rathbone/Juolevi and Poolman can become second pairing guys capable of tough minutes
If we get second half or bubble Demko rather than first half of last year Demko
If Dickinson can play as a shut down 3C without being a black hole for Pod and Pearson
If Hogs doesnt have a sophomore slump and instead takes a step forward
If Meyers can play with one of the young guys without it becoming a train wreck defensively
Etc.

But I think I might try to remain positive and hope for my Aunt to get some balls...

I am mostly just being sarcastic...

You know quite a few posters are fixated on the "if" part of the discussion but I don't see what the issue is. There's always "If's". Obviously, team success is often reliant on the team's best players being in good health. A team would also be counting on veterans to remain effective and younger players to possibly take the next step forward. That's just the way it is.
 
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timw33

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Last time I popped around these parts was praising the Miller trade and I got roasted for it, I also believe good things about this trade and then signing. Good luck boys.

No one has an issue with Garland, it's that he was chained to an absolute boat anchor of a contract in OEL and we gave up a 9th overall (back to back years no 1st) + 2nd to acquire said boat anchor.

All the positive value added in Garland was immediately taken away with the negative value of OEL, and we paid a massive premium.
 

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