Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign D Tucker Poolman to 4-Year, $10M Deal ($2.5M AAV)

[F A N]

played top4 minutes has no inherent meaning. We gave Meghna 1st line minutes, does that make him a 1st liner? No, he is still crap. Poolman played top4 min and he sucked at it and they threw him back into the bottom paring. Any dman can play top4 minutes if you don’t give a shit about the results.

But Poolman is clearly not Megna. Poolman is considered a solid bottom pairing Dman. And for what it's worth Megna was on a one-way contract.

The offer reflects how much interest a GM has. a 2-way contract will imply that GM don’t value him more than a 6/7th depth piece and likey won’t feel sad about “losing out” on him. So the question is, is Poolman a top4 guy or a 6/7 guy. If you look at what the jets fans are saying and the adv stats, yeah. Seems like Benning is the only one that thinks he is a top4 guy and we know his record when it comes to evaluating top4 dman.

But there was no two-way offer. You haven't provided any links. It's quite meaningless to say that well there must have been one GM who saw Poolman as a 6/7th guy and would have only offered him a two-way contract and it's another matter to suggest that other GMs (as in the ones interested in Poolman) were actually offering him a two-way contract. You have given zero evidence to the latter. And why is the question whether Poolman is a top 4 guy or a 6/7 guy? Why isn't the question whether he is a top 4 guy or a 5/6 guy? Poolman is not being paid like a top 4 Dman. He isn't being paid like a 6/7 guy either. He's being paid like a 5/6 guy.

The market is the market. If you're shopping for detached home in the City of Vancouver and planning to make a $600K offer because that's how you valued the home then you're just wasting everyone's time. The UFA market is no different. If the valuation is too rich then stay out. If you're making a two way offer to Poolman when he's fielding multi-year one-way offers you're wasting everyone's time and embarrassing yourself. Again, I don't like the AAV and I don't agree with term and fit, but I acknowledge that he's considered a solid bottom pairing Dman. The Canucks reportedly targeted him and likely liked him more than others. I won't be surprised if they wanted Poolman to sign for term as a way to lock up a good right side Dman on an affordable cap hit.

 

[arttk]

But Poolman is clearly not Megna. Poolman is considered a solid bottom pairing Dman. And for what it's worth Megna was on a one-way contract.



But there was no two-way offer. You haven't provided any links. It's quite meaningless to say that well there must have been one GM who saw Poolman as a 6/7th guy and would have only offered him a two-way contract and it's another matter to suggest that other GMs (as in the ones interested in Poolman) were actually offering him a two-way contract. You have given zero evidence to the latter. And why is the question whether Poolman is a top 4 guy or a 6/7 guy? Why isn't the question whether he is a top 4 guy or a 5/6 guy? Poolman is not being paid like a top 4 Dman. He isn't being paid like a 6/7 guy either. He's being paid like a 5/6 guy.

The market is the market. If you're shopping for detached home in the City of Vancouver and planning to make a $600K offer because that's how you valued the home then you're just wasting everyone's time. The UFA market is no different. If the valuation is too rich then stay out. If you're making a two way offer to Poolman when he's fielding multi-year one-way offers you're wasting everyone's time and embarrassing yourself. Again, I don't like the AAV and I don't agree with term and fit, but I acknowledge that he's considered a solid bottom pairing Dman. The Canucks reportedly targeted him and likely liked him more than others. I won't be surprised if they wanted Poolman to sign for term as a way to lock up a good right side Dman on an affordable cap hit.

How is a guy that puts up one point considered a good bottom paring guy? Is he able to carry the 3rd paring? Nope. From all accounts, he’s fine when you limit his usage. Looking past his one point and one penalty, his adv stats is not that hot as well and it lines up with what the jets fans are saying. Or should I just take your word over all that? Seems like all your arguments are centered around the idea that Poolman is a good bottom paring guy. Yeah if he is one then the deal makes a little bit more sense. But really there is not a lot of evidence to suggest that he is actually a *good* bottom paring guy. So yeah, since I don’t think he is a good bottom paring guy, it makes perfect sense for me that a GM would think to offer a two way contract because they is exactly the price you would want to offer to a 6/7th guy, especially in the flat cap era.

There is also no evidence to suggest that other GMs put in an actual competitive offer for Poolman as well. The only evidence we have is Benning saying he asked the agent and the agent told him there are 12 other GMs in on Poolman and he even mentioned that he doesn’t know what are the other competitions for Poolman. Nobody reported any other potential offer for Poolman right? in typical Benning fashion, he just took the agent’s word and derped his way into giving a bloated contract offer.

And yes, you might be right that there were no two way offers for Poolman because players like Poolman usually don’t get signed on the first day, especially with the flat cap. Benning probably was the only dumbass that thought of Poolman high enough to go after him on the first day while other GMs that are “interested” are just simply waiting it out because it’s never urgent to sign a 6th/7th “defensive” dman on the first day of FA.

 

[F A N]

How is a guy that puts up one point considered a good bottom paring guy? Is he able to carry the 3rd paring? Nope. From all accounts, he’s fine when you limit his usage. Looking past his one point and one penalty, his adv stats is not that hot as well and it lines up with what the jets fans are saying. Or should I just take your word over all that? Seems like all your arguments are centered around the idea that Poolman is a good bottom paring guy. Yeah if he is one then the deal makes a little bit more sense. But really there is not a lot of evidence to suggest that he is actually a *good* bottom paring guy. So yeah, since I don’t think he is a good bottom paring guy, it makes perfect sense for me that a GM would think to offer a two way contract because they is exactly the price you would want to offer to a 6/7th guy, especially in the flat cap era.

You don't think his one point may have been a fluke?

There is also no evidence to suggest that other GMs put in an actual competitive offer for Poolman as well. The only evidence we have is Benning saying he asked the agent and the agent told him there are 12 other GMs in on Poolman and he even mentioned that he doesn’t know what are the other competitions for Poolman. Nobody reported any other potential offer for Poolman right? in typical Benning fashion, he just took the agent’s word and derped his way into giving a bloated contract offer.

And yes, you might be right that there were no two way offers for Poolman because players like Poolman usually don’t get signed on the first day, especially with the flat cap. Benning probably was the only dumbass that thought of Poolman high enough to go after him on the first day while other GMs that are “interested” are just simply waiting it out because it’s never urgent to sign a 6th/7th “defensive” dman on the first day of FA.

I'm going to keep it short as we're never going to agree here.

I gave you a bunch of comparables. Your turn. Give me a comparable under 30 year old Dman with size and decent skating ability coming off a contract that paid him one-way who wasn't on waivers/taxi squad/AHL the past 2 seasons and logged decent minutes for a playoff team that signed a 2 way contract?

 

[arttk]

You don't think his one point may have been a fluke?



I'm going to keep it short as we're never going to agree here.

I gave you a bunch of comparables. Your turn. Give me a comparable under 30 year old Dman with size and decent skating ability coming off a contract that paid him one-way who wasn't on waivers/taxi squad/AHL the past 2 seasons and logged decent minutes for a playoff team that signed a 2 way contract?

Jon Merril, 29yrs old, 850K and 1 year term, big, put up 5 points, played 49 games and 13 playoff games and I think his adv stats are better than Poolman. Hell even their toi is similar. There is the comparable. Does being right handed justify like 1.6M and 3 years more?

 

[Fedz]

Jon Merril, 29yrs old, 850K and 1 year term, big, put up 5 points, played 49 games and 13 playoff games and I think his adv stats are better than Poolman. Hell even their toi is similar. There is the comparable. Does being right handed justify like 1.6M and 3 years more?

I get what you’re saying but Merrill is an average skater at best that is in his ninth year pro. Poolman is a plus skater, especially considering his size and will be entering his third year of pro.

Clearly the Canucks think Poolman’s best Hockey is to come and that he is a younger player even if they are similar in actual age.

FWIW - not a fan of the signing but Merrill wasn’t it either. Hunt was a good left handed depth Defenseman. No need for Merrill. But Poolman over Hakanpaa is a peculiar decision.

 

[strattonius]

This contract is pretty bad. It feels the same as Beagle's - I can't rationalize any logic around both the term and dollar amount.

The only thing I can think of is he wasn't all that interested in Vancouver and Jim overpaid huge. In which case probably better to move on wouldn't be surprised if Schenn outplays him.

 

[DonnyNucker]

How is a guy that puts up one point considered a good bottom paring guy? Is he able to carry the 3rd paring? Nope. From all accounts, he’s fine when you limit his usage. Looking past his one point and one penalty, his adv stats is not that hot as well and it lines up with what the jets fans are saying. Or should I just take your word over all that? Seems like all your arguments are centered around the idea that Poolman is a good bottom paring guy. Yeah if he is one then the deal makes a little bit more sense. But really there is not a lot of evidence to suggest that he is actually a *good* bottom paring guy. So yeah, since I don’t think he is a good bottom paring guy, it makes perfect sense for me that a GM would think to offer a two way contract because they is exactly the price you would want to offer to a 6/7th guy, especially in the flat cap era.

There is also no evidence to suggest that other GMs put in an actual competitive offer for Poolman as well. The only evidence we have is Benning saying he asked the agent and the agent told him there are 12 other GMs in on Poolman and he even mentioned that he doesn’t know what are the other competitions for Poolman. Nobody reported any other potential offer for Poolman right? in typical Benning fashion, he just took the agent’s word and derped his way into giving a bloated contract offer.

And yes, you might be right that there were no two way offers for Poolman because players like Poolman usually don’t get signed on the first day, especially with the flat cap. Benning probably was the only dumbass that thought of Poolman high enough to go after him on the first day while other GMs that are “interested” are just simply waiting it out because it’s never urgent to sign a 6th/7th “defensive” dman on the first day of FA.

Poolman said he had other offers on the radio ffs. Lots of interest. Are benning, Poolman and his agent all lying ?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

This contract is pretty bad. It feels the same as Beagle's - I can't rationalize any logic around both the term and dollar amount.

The only thing I can think of is he wasn't all that interested in Vancouver and Jim overpaid huge. In which case probably better to move on wouldn't be surprised if Schenn outplays him.

The difference is that Beagle was around 32 when he signed whereas Poolman is 28.
I think it’s an overpay for sure but he should be a bottom pairing guy for the duration of his contract. The Beagle signing, given his age, was a terrible one.

 

[strattonius]

The difference is that Beagle was around 32 when he signed whereas Poolman is 28.
I think it’s an overpay for sure but he should be a bottom pairing guy for the duration of his contract. The Beagle signing, given his age, was a terrible one.

Projecting a player to remain bottom pair for 4 years...yeesh let's see how that goes.

There's too many variables and opportunities that could come up on defense over the next 4 years - signing this contract closes the door on lots of them.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Projecting a player to remain bottom pair for 4 years...yeesh let's see how that goes.

There's too many variables and opportunities that could come up on defense over the next 4 years - signing this contract closes the door on lots of them.

Yeah my main point was that it’s nothing like the Beagle signing. You just don’t sign 32 year old fourth liners to that amount and certainly not to that term.

 

[Melvin]

Yeah my main point was that it’s nothing like the Beagle signing. You just don’t sign 32 year old fourth liners to that amount and certainly not to that term.

Don't sign bottom-of-the-roster players to long-term contracts. That is literally management 101.

 

[arttk]

Poolman said he had other offers on the radio ffs. Lots of interest. Are benning, Poolman and his agent all lying ?

No f***ing shit, you would do the same thing to get a better contract. Do we know what the offers are? Could be a bunch of low ball contracts, but if you are vague about it and just give ballpark figures, you can jack up the rate. It’s not complicated.

It’s not like this is the only time Benning overpaid without competition. Remember Pearson? He paid 3.2 because the agent said he would get that much in the open market.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Poolman said he had other offers on the radio ffs. Lots of interest. Are benning, Poolman and his agent all lying ?

I’m sure he had offers. There’s a lot of teams that were looking for D and the price got driven up on all of them. Doesn’t mean it’s a good signing but I’ll watch him before judging. He looked decent when I watched the Jets but it looks like he was playing 21 minutes a night in the playoffs which probably means he was put in a position he’s not capable of handling.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i think they are rationalizing the cost of poolman and hamonic together as an alternative to a true second pair dman they could not land plus a normal bottom pair. $5.5m is reasonable for both. poolman can carry more than a normal bottom pair load.

so basically poolman is an elite bottom pair dman experiment. similar to sutter as an elite 3c and beagle as an elite 4c.

 

[Peen]

i think they are rationalizing the cost of poolman and hamonic together as an alternative to a true second pair dman they could not land plus a normal bottom pair. $5.5m is reasonable for both. poolman can carry more than a normal bottom pair load.

so basically poolman is an elite bottom pair dman experiment. similar to sutter as an elite 3c and beagle as an elite 4c.

boy that’s the gold standard right there

 

[GetFocht]

Poolman over Hakanpaa is a peculiar decision.

I think the difference is offensive skill. Hakanpaa has absolute zero awareness in the offensive zone whereas Poolman looks for lanes to shoot, pass, and even activate on the forecheck

I would have been happy with both but I can see why Canucks think he has more upside.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

i think they are rationalizing the cost of poolman and hamonic together as an alternative to a true second pair dman they could not land plus a normal bottom pair. $5.5m is reasonable for both. poolman can carry more than a normal bottom pair load.

so basically poolman is an elite bottom pair dman experiment. similar to sutter as an elite 3c and beagle as an elite 4c.

Isn't Hamonic set to be our 2nd pairing guy this season?

 

[Peen]

Isn't Hamonic set to be our 2nd pairing guy this season?

yes, poolman is going to play matchups with oel and myers is going to remain lower in the lineup according to drance’s projection

 

[PavelBure10]

To be honest I don't know all that much about Poolman. He seems to be a little bit of a late bloomer, but may still have some untapped potential. The overall cap hit seems a bit high, but so does a lot of other defenseman that were signed this past week. With the lack of knowledge of this player, he now becomes the one I am most intrigued about this upcoming season. Hopefully Poolman proves doubters wrong and becomes a valuable defensive asset to our lineup, because let's face it, he "Needs" to be.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Isn't Hamonic set to be our 2nd pairing guy this season?

define second pairing. there are 2/3ds, 3ds,4ds and 4/5ds.

hamonic averaged over a minute less last year than any prior season. leaving aside icetime, he is nowhere near what he was in his prime.

poolman was only a minute behind hamonic on icetime last year.

 

[krutovsdonut]

yes, poolman is going to play matchups with oel and myers is going to remain lower in the lineup according to drance’s projection

not sure how they project that without the coaching staff having coached either guy let alone together.

also, the minutes allocation is going to be tricky. if poolman plays with oel at es, he will either be a top 4dman or oel and hamonic will pk.

 

[Bankerguy]

I feel like... if we were going to pay $2.5MM for Mr. Poolman, it would be over a 1 or 2 year term. However, at 4 years..... 4 years for a bottom pairing guy, you think we'd be ablet to negotiate him down to $1.5MM - $1.75MM

Lets just hope he takes another step and has some good chemistry with one of our leftside dmen.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I’m sure he had offers. There’s a lot of teams that were looking for D and the price got driven up on all of them. Doesn’t mean it’s a good signing but I’ll watch him before judging. He looked decent when I watched the Jets but it looks like he was playing 21 minutes a night in the playoffs which probably means he was put in a position he’s not capable of handling.

RHD going for a higher rate of exchange than LHD....with the exception of Adam Larsson who could've got a million more a year if he had actually tested the market.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I feel like barring any camp miracles, or major injuries, our pairings are kind of written in ink already. Benning specifically mentioned Hughes when talking about Hamonic.
Hughes- Hamonic: there's 1 pairing. He also called OEL a #1 d-man, and we know there's no way he's not going to be playing big minutes. Does anybody actually think Myers, the 6$M dollar man, isn't going to be playing in a top 4 role?? Rathbone is way too good to keep out of the every day line-up. Poolman wasn't signed to sit in the box eating potato chips. Seems obvious to me:
OEL- Myers
Hughes- Hamonic
Rathbone- Poolman
It is interesting that nobody has heard from Travis Green for what feels like months. Maybe he's gone fishing or something (that's what i'd be doing if i was him).

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I feel like barring any camp miracles, or major injuries, our pairings are kind of written in ink already. Benning specifically mentioned Hughes when talking about Hamonic.
Hughes- Hamonic: there's 1 pairing. He also called OEL a #1 d-man, and we know there's no way he's not going to be playing big minutes. Does anybody actually think Myers, the 6$M dollar man, isn't going to be playing in a top 4 role?? Rathbone is way too good to keep out of the every day line-up. Poolman wasn't signed to sit in the box eating potato chips. Seems obvious to me:
OEL- Myers
Hughes- Hamonic
Rathbone- Poolman
It is interesting that nobody has heard from Travis Green for what feels like months. Maybe he's gone fishing or something (that's what i'd be doing if i was him).