Rumor: Canucks: Should I stay or should I go? Pete stays and Miller goes!
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Peter Griffin
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- Feb 13, 2003
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What about defensively? From what I understand, Thompson’s defensive game leaves a lot to be desired.
That’s less than what the Rangers’ offer was apparently. Not good enough.
BigDaddyLurch
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Pierre-Luc Dubas
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Peter Griffin
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- Feb 13, 2003
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Talent?
Pettersson put up a 100+ point season with (checks notes) Anthony beauvillier, kizemenko, Mikheyev as his most common line mates
superior talent indeed
Agreed and that is what makes the Kot and Ros even more pathetic as its still worse.
Ros is also a nothing player and his offense for a forward is pretty bad.
BigDaddyLurch
The Angry Giant
...Kotkaniemi's development was absolutely destroyed by Marc Bergevin in Montreal...guy coulda been a half-decent Top 6 C if he wasn't rushed soo much because the Habs needed a Top 6 C immediately and, even though he was told by his head of scouting that KK was a PROJECT and needed time to blossum, Bergevin rushed him to the dance immediately...poor kid...
They aren't winning the trade we know that but we are also still better without him and a pile of scraps.
The don godfather
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Just Linda
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- Feb 24, 2018
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No, Kotkaniemi takes as much blame as anyone for it. Habs lack of development staff played a big role but Kotkaniemi's fatal flaw was a lack of maturity more than anything.
Habs training staff sent him with an offseason training plan that was largely focused on his skating, they suggested he go work on his skating with the same skating coach that his linemate, Armia, uses. Instead, Kotkaniemi chose to bulk up during the offseason and came back larger but with his biggest flaw not adequately worked on. A lot of the reports after that mention him having issues with the coaching staff, from not listening to them fully or not taking them seriously. The Athletic reported that there was issues with Kotkanemi not listening to coaches and smirking during practice, TSN690 reported that there was tension with him not following through with game plans and not playing the forecheck the way he was asked multiple times including in the playoffs. Him being benched in the playoffs, after having 5 pts in 19 games despite being played as a third liner, and then getting entitled brat about it and announcing that had played his last game for the Habs was the kicker.
Claude Julien has said "“Kotkaniemi can become the player that he can become… if he wants to himself”, said Julien. “Everyone was trying to help him, but at some point, even if you help a player, he has to help himself too. Sometimes, it takes 2-3-4 years before a young player becomes mature enough et gets to recognize his own strengths and weaknesses, and work on that. Now, Kotkaniemi must take the next steps to help himself.”
Bergevin has publicly commented on his maturity too.
"KK didn’t show enough growth in his game/maturity issues and we were not confident with matching that offer-sheet."
Habs take a lot of responsibility for players not working out but him and Poehling are 100% on them.
BigDaddyLurch
The Angry Giant
...Trevor Timmins literally told Bergevin that Kotkaniemi was a PROJECT and needed a few seasons against lesser competition to start to bloom before they drafted him...maturity could also have come from taking the necessary first steps in his development...that failure is 100% on Bergevin...
Just Linda
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Timmins comments at the draft were
- He would need time in the NHL or AHL to develop, sending him back to Finland was an option too.
- The main reason they thought so highly of him was his maturity and his ability to play offensively or defensively but his lack of strength and ability to handle the pace of professional hockey were the things that made him a longer project.
- Lots of talk on his vision and hockey sense. He really hyped that up.
- They saw him as a future top 6 centre but it would take time.
Timmins never publically said Kk should be sent to play against lesser competition.
Not listening to coaches, not following trainers advice... None of that is on Bergevin. KK takes blame for his immaturity.
Bona fide. Bona fide are the words you are looking for. Bonified is not a word.
A lot of posters in here are missing the context of a potential Miller deal. Likely a near PPG 1st or 2nd line centre for 2-4 more years, then a few years of being an overpaid 3c. Which teams should recognize, understand where they are at in the competitive cycle, and understand that veteran Miller in 2028-2029 is now your insulating leadership.
A lot of willfully obtuse posters in here. If you were getting a PPG power centre signed for 8 mil for his entire prime, the cost would be a hell of a lot higher.
Yeah. Miller doesn't have high-end trade value. Canucks fans expecting a big package need to get real. You move Miller because you have to move on. You're not winning the trade.
Miller will be 32 soon, has a pretty large cap hit, has a full NMC (big issue with trying to maximize trade value), and is a known malcontent that will cause issues with teammates. Those are a lot of red flags for a supposed "premium" asset.
carolina would be instant cup contenders with Miller. fits right in. morrow+prospect+1st + necas. dont wat jasper Kotnaknemi. hes too small and weak. tocheet might not even like him.
So how does this work? Is it like Survivor? Does each player meet in a room with Tocchet and cast a vote on which teammate gets voted off Canuck Island?
I mean if you take out Necas it's probably right.
Necas is above PPG this year, swapping him for Miller doesn't really improve them, let alone the gulf in trade value in Vancouver s favor.
That's a Pettersson offer, not a Miller offer.
Replace Necas with Kotkaniemi, who is needed to make the cap work, and maybe it happens. But I still question whether Tulsky is interested in paying $8M/ year for 5 more years of a player turning 32.
Edit: Remember, Eric Tulsky developed the model on diminishing production as a player ages a decade ago.
wintersej
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Yeah Carolina being in on Miller doesn't make a lot of sense to be with how they run their org. Perhaps the weak state of the eastern conference this year has them feeling risky.
kvladimir
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- Dec 1, 2010
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Indeed, I think they would go for it if the price is right. Obviously not if Necas, Jarvis, and certainly Nikishin is involved. The Guentzel acquisition proves that they might break the mold on their decision making in the right situation (i.e. the price was right) in order to make the most of an opportunity to win. While it's fair to expect Miller to regress as he ages, he is probably exactly what CAR needs over the next 2-4 seasons, before that regression gets really bad.
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