Rumor: Canucks prospect and U of M Captain Jacob Truscott will be testing free agency- Will not sign with the Canucks

[maroon 6]

No reason to think like that. Let's be realistic. Kids who are talented enough to go to the NHL before they graduate, typically do so that they can begin earning money. Truscott wasn't that case, so he finished school. Now, per CBA rules, he does have the option to pick a team should he want to and that appears to be his decision.

Vancouver had Lockwood and Mcdonnough finish school and sign with them and they are both gone from the organization. Rathbone also signed and his career didn't gain much traction with the club.

Now, there is a new regime in charge, who comes from Pitt where they have done a much better job of developing NCAA players in their AHL club.

but, if he's made up his mind, so be it. Will Butcher did this and he made the NHL. Chase Priskie, did the same, and he hasn't. He's going to need AHL time, so best to sign with a team with a good AHL staff.

Besides Rathbone, I don’t think McDonough and Lockwood were good enough anyways.

 

[Petes2424]

You almost want to see people like him fail. I doubt this kid gets more than a cup of coffee in the NHL and is off to Russa win 3 years.

Why though? The teams use the NCAA as much as kids use the league. Take a player like Red Savage. He’s still not signed yet because Detroit knows they can store him at MSU for another year. Same situation here.

If a team hasn’t signed an NCAA player after 2 years, they get no sympathy if a kid plays out his options and walks. The player is giving up 2 years of earning ability. That’s a lot of time for a pro athlete

So it’s one thing if the player is using the NCAA early on after being drafted, trying to force a move. Then go ahead and resent the kid. Once it gets past 2 years though, 99% of the time, the team has had a chance to sign the kid, but more than likely told him to return to college. Then the third year turns into a fourth. They’ve earned that UFA status.

 

[Siludin]

Imagine rebuffing your draft team then going unsigned so you have to return to your special baby COVID year

 

[PettersonHughes]

Jacob we hardly knew ye. In Allvin we Trus.

 

[coolboarder]

A change to the compensation for any pick that complete 4 years of college should be given and any team that signed him should forfeit their pick accordingly. If he is a 5th round pick, and any team that choose to sign him should give the same 5th round pick back. I think we just need to rework some of CBA for this type so that each team would invest their time by invite them to the prospect camp and teach them at the camp only for them to sign with other team. This type of movement will force the team might lose their own pick to assess if it is worth the risk. The only exemption would be if he is not signed on that certain date that would cause him to miss training camp and exhibition games risking missing out his development year in the AHL/ECHL, etc. will not be given a compensation pick back.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Imagine rebuffing your draft team then going unsigned so you have to return to your special baby COVID year

imagine a grown man being this deep in his feelings over a 5th round pick

 

[Qwijibo]

A change to the compensation for any pick that complete 4 years of college should be given and any team that signed him should forfeit their pick accordingly. If he is a 5th round pick, and any team that choose to sign him should give the same 5th round pick back. I think we just need to rework some of CBA for this type so that each team would invest their time by invite them to the prospect camp and teach them at the camp only for them to sign with other team. This type of movement will force the team might lose their own pick to assess if it is worth the risk. The only exemption would be if he is not signed on that certain date that would cause him to miss training camp and exhibition games risking missing out his development year in the AHL/ECHL, etc. will not be given a compensation pick back.

Never happen. Making signing an unrestricted free agent a punishable offence makes no sense. They do need to address this loophole that middling college players can exploit. But punishing teams for signing a player that no one owns the rights too isn't the way to go

 

[Rydgar]

Odd move by Truscott, usually if a NCAA makes a power move like that, it's because they know another team would sign them.

 

[Brodeur]

A change to the compensation for any pick that complete 4 years of college should be given and any team that signed him should forfeit their pick accordingly. If he is a 5th round pick, and any team that choose to sign him should give the same 5th round pick back. I think we just need to rework some of CBA for this type so that each team would invest their time by invite them to the prospect camp and teach them at the camp only for them to sign with other team. This type of movement will force the team might lose their own pick to assess if it is worth the risk. The only exemption would be if he is not signed on that certain date that would cause him to miss training camp and exhibition games risking missing out his development year in the AHL/ECHL, etc. will not be given a compensation pick back.

That would need to be collectively bargained and I can't imagine the NHLPA would willingly limit the number of potential suitors. Seven teams have already dealt their 2025 5th rounders for example.

And what happens in the case where the team didn't want to offer a player an ELC? Are they still entitled to a compensatory pick? Case McCarthy was a 4th round pick by the Devils in 2019. He graduated spring 2023 and New Jersey opted not to sign him. It would seem unfair to McCarthy if he had no offers because nobody wanted to fork over a 4th rounder on top of a contract.

Would Jay O'Brien have required forking over a 1st round pick? In the end, Philadelphia was happy enough to take a compensatory 2nd rounder from the league. Awarding extra compensatory picks for non-first rounders would get messy since teams might be happy to get a mulligan rather than sign a guy that they're not sure about.

Realistically an NCAA player going the free agent route is more rare than we make it seem.

Edit: In last year's version of this thread, I compiled a list of 'notable' guys who went this route:

Seniors - August 15th
----------------
2006: RD Nate Guenin (NYR=>PHI) - August 16th
2010: RD David Fischer (MON=>N/A)
2012: C Daultan Leveille (ATL/WPG=>N/A)
2014: C Kevin Hayes (CHI=>NYR) - August 20th
2016: LW Jimmy Vesey (NSH/BUF=>NYR) - August 19th, Thomas Di Pauli (WSH=>PIT) - August 19th
2017: LD Doyle Somerby (NYI=>CLB) - August 23rd, C Alex Kerfoot (NJD=>COL) - August 23rd, LD Will Butcher (COL=>NJD) - August 27th
2019: RD Chase Priskie (WSH=>CAR) - August 16th
2020: C Matt Filipe (CAR=>BOS) - August 17th, LW Cam Morrison (COL=>CHI) - August 18th, LD Ryan Shea (CHI=>DAL) - August 19th
2022: RD Jack St. Ivany (PHI=>PIT) - August 20th
2023: C John Farinacci (ARZ=>BOS) - August 16th, C Jay O'Brien (PHI=>TOR AHL)

Juniors
----------------
2008: RW Blake Wheeler (PHX=>BOS)
2012: RD Justin Schultz (ANA=>EDM)
2017: G Cal Petersen (BUF=>LAK)

There are cases like Fischer/Leveille/O'Brien where the team preferred to get the compensatory pick. My memory is fuzzy, but I don't remember if it was Colorado who didn't want to commit an ELC to Cam Morrison or if he didn't want to sign.

And just to expand on a previous point, how would you differentiate John Farinacci (2019 3rd round pick) spurning the Coyotes vs. guys like Jake Wise (2018 3rd) or Robert Mastrosimone (2019 2nd) not getting offered an ELC from their drafting teams?

 

[Breakers]

That would need to be collectively bargained and I can't imagine the NHLPA would willingly limit the number of potential suitors. Seven teams have already dealt their 2025 5th rounders for example.

And what happens in the case where the team didn't want to offer a player an ELC? Are they still entitled to a compensatory pick? Case McCarthy was a 4th round pick by the Devils in 2019. He graduated spring 2023 and New Jersey opted not to sign him. It would seem unfair to McCarthy if he had no offers because nobody wanted to fork over a 4th rounder on top of a contract.

Would Jay O'Brien have required forking over a 1st round pick? In the end, Philadelphia was happy enough to take a compensatory 2nd rounder from the league. Awarding extra compensatory picks for non-first rounders would get messy since teams might be happy to get a mulligan rather than sign a guy that they're not sure about.

Realistically an NCAA player going the free agent route is more rare than we make it seem.

Plus you can can escape your drafting team even quicker in the CHL

Just seems weird to make it about the NCAA and players opting for 4 full years

 

[Dr Quincy]

A change to the compensation for any pick that complete 4 years of college should be given and any team that signed him should forfeit their pick accordingly. If he is a 5th round pick, and any team that choose to sign him should give the same 5th round pick back. I think we just need to rework some of CBA for this type so that each team would invest their time by invite them to the prospect camp and teach them at the camp only for them to sign with other team. This type of movement will force the team might lose their own pick to assess if it is worth the risk. The only exemption would be if he is not signed on that certain date that would cause him to miss training camp and exhibition games risking missing out his development year in the AHL/ECHL, etc. will not be given a compensation pick back.

Why is this needed?
Why would the NHLPA agree to it?
Why would it only apply to players playing 4 years of college and not those who play in Europe or drafted out of the CHL?

Every year there are many teams that after 4 years of seeing a player and never offering them a contract, just walk away. Why aren't those teams required to offer a contract to a player and if not, why don't you suggest that they give the player some sort of compensation? Why is that not an issue to you?
There are probably 20x as many times a team says "No thanks we'd rather not sign you" than there are players deciding not to sign.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Never happen. Making signing an unrestricted free agent a punishable offence makes no sense. They do need to address this loophole that middling college players can exploit. But punishing teams for signing a player that no one owns the rights too isn't the way to go

Explain how it is a loophole. After 4 years, an NCAA player has his rights expire. In some cases (a player playing another year of USHL before entering college) it might be 5 years after being drafted.

Tell me, how many years after being drafted can a CHL or Euro player become a free agent if he isn't signed? If it's not "less than NCAA players" then we can't call it a loophole.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Funny how drafting KHL guys is considered a risk when in reality its the NCAA prospects that are far more likely to walk

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Funny how drafting KHL guys is considered a risk when in reality its the NCAA prospects that are far more likely to walk

Is that claim based on any actual statistic or is that just your general impression?

 

[Breakers]

Odd move by Truscott, usually if a NCAA makes a power move like that, it's because they know another team would sign them.

No team can sign him yet anyways

So nobody really knows interest for like 3 more weeks.

 

[CanadienShark]

A change to the compensation for any pick that complete 4 years of college should be given and any team that signed him should forfeit their pick accordingly. If he is a 5th round pick, and any team that choose to sign him should give the same 5th round pick back. I think we just need to rework some of CBA for this type so that each team would invest their time by invite them to the prospect camp and teach them at the camp only for them to sign with other team. This type of movement will force the team might lose their own pick to assess if it is worth the risk. The only exemption would be if he is not signed on that certain date that would cause him to miss training camp and exhibition games risking missing out his development year in the AHL/ECHL, etc. will not be given a compensation pick back.

Nope. This is type of situation is defined by the CBA. Any player, whether NCAA or not, can do this. To flip this situation around, should teams be forced to offer a contract to players they draft instead of holding them hostage? I don't think so. Contracts need two sides to agree and one shouldn't be punished for not wanting to sign.

 

[Ciao]

Boo hoo

College player finishes out his degree and doesn't sign with his draft team.

What about all the players who are drafted but never offered a contract? What do they owe their draft teams? A pledge of allegiance, or nothing at all?

Ditto for the ones that got away. They don't owe their draft teams anything either.

 

[Voight]

Wonder if hes a doorknob like Rutger and demanding an NHL spot without earning it?

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Plus you can can escape your drafting team even quicker in the CHL

Just seems weird to make it about the NCAA and players opting for 4 full years

You can escape your drafted team as a player drafted out of the chl by not signing after 2 years… but you are not a UFA. That unsigned player has to re enter the draft.

Often that player could be drafted in a lower round.

He may even get drafted to a worse scenario to a team that has more depth at his position.

 

[StreetHawk]

You can escape your drafted team as a player drafted out of the chl by not signing after 2 years… but you are not a UFA. That unsigned player has to re enter the draft.

Often that player could be drafted in a lower round.

He may even get drafted to a worse scenario to a team that has more depth at his position.

What happens after that for a CHLer? If you get selected by a team the 2nd time around? And you don't want to sign, are you then off to Europe/KHL and for how long before the rights lapse for that 2nd team that drafted you?

It does seem to vary quite a bit between the different leagues that you get drafted out of. With Europeans having the longest rights control.

 

[BCNate]

Canucks are awfully close to their max for contracts. I would have been surprised if they chose to sign him anyway.

 

[Johnsie19]

Canucks are awfully close to their max for contracts. I would have been surprised if they chose to sign him anyway.

I'd agree. I've really never heard his name mentioned in the prospects that might make the NHL lists.

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

The compensation should only ever be an added pick in that round for the team whose drafted player signed elsewhere. The signing team forfeiting a same-round pick to the draft team is bad because it would potentially block some guys from getting signed entirely when they don't live up to their draft position despite being NHL quality players.

For example: guy gets drafted in the 2nd round and goes on to have a solid but unspectacular four year NCAA career. By the time he becomes a free agent he is no longer a true 2nd round value pick, but is still a solid bet to become a bottom sixer. This hypothetical player would have zero chance of getting signed if someone had to pay a 2nd to bring him into the league.

 

[nturn06]

A change to the compensation for any pick that complete 4 years of college should be given and any team that signed him should forfeit their pick accordingly. If he is a 5th round pick, and any team that choose to sign him should give the same 5th round pick back. I think we just need to rework some of CBA for this type so that each team would invest their time by invite them to the prospect camp and teach them at the camp only for them to sign with other team. This type of movement will force the team might lose their own pick to assess if it is worth the risk. The only exemption would be if he is not signed on that certain date that would cause him to miss training camp and exhibition games risking missing out his development year in the AHL/ECHL, etc. will not be given a compensation pick back.

So if a team doesn't want to sign a college player they drafted, they could get a pick....

 

[StreetHawk]

A change to the compensation for any pick that complete 4 years of college should be given and any team that signed him should forfeit their pick accordingly. If he is a 5th round pick, and any team that choose to sign him should give the same 5th round pick back. I think we just need to rework some of CBA for this type so that each team would invest their time by invite them to the prospect camp and teach them at the camp only for them to sign with other team. This type of movement will force the team might lose their own pick to assess if it is worth the risk. The only exemption would be if he is not signed on that certain date that would cause him to miss training camp and exhibition games risking missing out his development year in the AHL/ECHL, etc. will not be given a compensation pick back.

Nah. Almost all of the kids who go UFA are 3rd rounders or later. Very rare for a 1st like Wheeler, Hayes to go UFA and pass up money if they are good enough to go pro before senior year.

Truscott, I can't recall might have shown up for prospects camp in July a couple of times for the 3-4 days. I don't think that is a massive investment. Majority of his development done at Michigan.

Again, that's the NHL route vs say MLB with their multiple minor leagues as they get their kids within a year of drafting them otherwise they lose their rights. NHL, you are letting another organization with no ties to yours develop the kids for 2-4 years depending on where they play.