Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | You incurred Vector's wrath and broke the site.

[Jerry the great]

re-open discussion
there were some questions asked based on your 'post' and 'list'

you can't triple stamp a double stamp

 

[andora]

you can't triple stamp a double stamp

Phenominal

 

[arttk]

I get that. But this is what you said in response to a posters say 7X$7.5M for M-Petey:



Your post was made AFTER NHL's cap announcement. So it's like we didn't disagree but now we do?



I get that. I'm not taking some strong or unreasonable position here. You agree that teams do pay more for the type of offensive production that Chychrun has put up. Heck, using your argument above, had we known the cap was going to jump to like $115M in 3 years, do you think Hronek would have gotten close to $9M AAV? And would he be worth much more than M-Petey contract?

I don't see why we have to choose between the 2 conclusions you proposed. I don't see why we can't conclude that pure defensive Dman aren't valued anywhere close to offensive Dmen with Chychrun's production while at the same time conclude that M-Petey could have gotten more as a UFA than what we signed him for. I along with many others thought M-Petey had all the leverage to squeeze Canucks' management so I am one of many who were surprised at the contract M-Petey ultimately signed.

And again, you keep describing Chychrun as a 40ish point offensive Dman when he has 18 goals and 43 points (23-24 goal 54 point pace). A defenseman's ability to regularly put up goal totals in the teens adds to their market value. Always has. As mentioend, most of us think we signed M-Petey to a good contract. Above I said that I think he could get $6-6.25M AAV.

At the end of the day if we're talking about what the players can command as a UFA, Chychrun's age, size, toolset, and offensive production should get him offers at higher AAV than M-Petey. Similarly, if Ekblad hits UFA, he's going to get paid similar to Chychrun (albeit he is M-Petey's age and is a RHD).

I don’t see the point in thinking “if he had known”. Nobody knows the future and you can’t really talk any type of business based on future projections, life doesn’t work like that. I think if Hronek held out for a short term contract and is a UFA this year then yeah I think he would get more than Chychrun because he’s a RHD.

Oh I was just looking at his stats from previous years and he seems more like a 40ish guy with a breakout year this year that seems unsustainable because the caps are on a heater like we were last year.

Btw I do agree that Chychrun is probably paid market and this will set the bar for a top 4 offensive guy. With this context, MP is definitely underpaid. I did say MP is probably worth between 6-7 and I say this now with the knowledge of Chychrun setting the market and even as I say that, that’s still not 7.5M.

TLDR: we gotta sweet ass deal

 

[lawrence]

so what are our realistic options for the UFA pool? It doesn't seem like much is available. Sam Bennet , Ehlers aint coming here. Marner won't be coming to the west coast. All these toronto boys hate Vancouver anyways.

the only names that is maybe is Gourde and Jamie Benn. Clearly as stop overs too. what you guys think?

 

[ephmrl]

Very unpopular opinion but I wish management knew in hindsight about Miller and could have traded him earlier and then resigned Lindholm. Context is I'm probably a bigger Lindholm fan than most here. He would be fine as our 2C.

Lindholm is barely an upgrade on Pius Suter at this point, and I certainly wouldn’t want to give Suter anywhere near 7m.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

so what are our realistic options for the UFA pool? It doesn't seem like much is available. Sam Bennet , Ehlers aint coming here. Marner won't be coming to the west coast. All these toronto boys hate Vancouver anyways.

the only names that is maybe is Gourde and Jamie Benn. Clearly as stop overs too. what you guys think?

I think the Canucks will call in on Marner and Bennett. Marner because he’s a top flight elite player, and Bennett fits Tocchet hockey to a T. I think Marner gives us a hard pass - Bennett is a big tougher to read, but I doubt it. He’ll have plenty of suitors, too.

I think from there, the Canucks look at available forwards in their 20s who they feel have more to give. They’ve been linked to Jack Roslovic in rumors a number of times. Jonathan Drouin, Victor Olofsson, and Andrew Mangiapane might be guys they call in on. If they decide to go the more veteran route, Yanni Gourde might draw interest. Heck, they’d probably have interest in John Tavares if he decides to leave Toronto.

Unless we hit on a big swing, I don’t see a lot of clear upgrade options for us on the market. It may need to come from trades. Something like when Seattle scooped Oliver Bjorkstrand from Columbus would be really nice.

 

[ephmrl]

so what are our realistic options for the UFA pool? It doesn't seem like much is available. Sam Bennet , Ehlers aint coming here. Marner won't be coming to the west coast. All these toronto boys hate Vancouver anyways.

the only names that is maybe is Gourde and Jamie Benn. Clearly as stop overs too. what you guys think?

Don’t see why Ehlers wouldn’t come here, and he’d be my number one target if he makes it to free agency.

 

[I am toxic]

UFA Targets, in order of priority:

Anyone named Elias Pettersson not already signed

Anyone named Pettersson not already signed

Anyone Swedish from the Pens

Anyone not Swedish from the Pens

Anyone Swedish not from the Pebs

Anyone not Swedish not from the Pens*

* based on randomly pasting pics of their faces on a dart board, and getting a blindfolded monkey to fling . . . stuff at the board

 

[Jack Burton]

so what are our realistic options for the UFA pool? It doesn't seem like much is available. Sam Bennet , Ehlers aint coming here. Marner won't be coming to the west coast. All these toronto boys hate Vancouver anyways.

the only names that is maybe is Gourde and Jamie Benn. Clearly as stop overs too. what you guys think?

Nothing.

There are no “realistic” options this year.

What we should have done is a Marner for Boeser trade and ride out what happens. That would have BEEN the bomb of the NHL but neither franchise has the balls to get what they truly need.

 

[Jack Burton]

UFA Targets, in order of priority:

Anyone named Elias Pettersson not already signed

Anyone named Pettersson not already signed

Anyone Swedish from the Pens

Anyone not Swedish from the Pens

Anyone Swedish not from the Pebs

Anyone not Swedish not from the Pens*

* based on randomly pasting pics of their faces on a dart board, and getting a blindfolded monkey to fling . . . stuff at the board

That checks out

That checks

That checks

That checks

That checks

That checks

That checks






That definitely checks out

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

The myopic yo-yoing of a bunch of posters is so interesting to observe.

So we go from "Petey sucks, let's trade him. He'll never be good again".

To, "We have to keep Suter. I don't care if it costs 5 million per".

Guys, there is always more to be considered than what happened last game.

I like Suter and think he's done a fantastic job here for 1.6 million.
I might even offer him 3.5 million or something to stay for 3 or 4 years.

But getting upwards to 4.5 or 5 million to me is crazy and would keep us mired in mediocrity.

 

[ManVanFan]

The myopic yo-yoing of a bunch of posters is so interesting to observe.

So we go from "Petey sucks, let's trade him. He'll never be good again".

To, "We have to keep Suter. I don't care if it costs 5 million per".

Guys, there is always more to be considered than what happened last game.

I like Suter and think he's done a fantastic job here for 1.6 million.
I might even offer him 3.5 million or something to stay for 3 or 4 years.

But getting upwards to 4.5 or 5 million to me is crazy and would keep us mired in mediocrity.

Always love the period by period fans. 11 points in his last 15 games. 13 points in his previous 35 before that. Who is going to pay 5m for a streaky scorer like that. Cap is going up but paying 5m for a streaky scoring soft responsible two foot winger is insane. I'd let him walk if he wants more than 2.75M. I already think Joshua was overpaid for getting what his type are getting on the market. Don't take my opinion with much more than just that.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Always love the period by period fans. 11 points in his last 15 games. 13 points in his previous 35 before that. Who is going to pay 5m for a streaky scorer like that. Cap is going up but paying 5m for a streaky scoring soft responsible two foot winger is insane. I'd let him walk if he wants more than 2.75M. I already think Joshua was overpaid for getting what his type are getting on the market. Don't take my opinion with much more than just that.

So don’t pay Lekkerimaki 10 million a season?

 

[lawrence]

Don’t see why Ehlers wouldn’t come here, and he’d be my number one target if he makes it to free agency.

Hes everyones number one target though.

 

[Jay26]

The myopic yo-yoing of a bunch of posters is so interesting to observe.

So we go from "Petey sucks, let's trade him. He'll never be good again".

To, "We have to keep Suter. I don't care if it costs 5 million per".

Guys, there is always more to be considered than what happened last game.

I like Suter and think he's done a fantastic job here for 1.6 million.
I might even offer him 3.5 million or something to stay for 3 or 4 years.

But getting upwards to 4.5 or 5 million to me is crazy and would keep us mired in mediocrity.

Gotta agree with you here. The Canucks need to be more careful with Suter than what some here are suggesting. I don't think he's a total fluke but he's a prototypical overpay candidate based on a career year.

 

[credulous]

Don’t see why Ehlers wouldn’t come here, and he’d be my number one target if he makes it to free agency.

everyone seems to think he's going to montreal

 

[RandV]

So with ehlers and his impending raise

I'm assuming the intention would to be playing him more ice time than what he has been getting which is made him a very efficient producer, the question is if you think that the uptick in ice time will reflect that with an uptick and scoring, I don't think historically it makes a difference mind you that maybe more applicable to the minute up to 24 minute range versus the mid teens range up to High Teens

For all the fancy player card people how is he defensively because you have to ensure that you're getting some value on some inflated contract that if his numbers stay relatively the same he at least can play in his own end of the ice

The ice time thing is typically true but usually applies to guys like Nils Hoglander from last season. With Ehlers I think you have to look at it as aside from his first few seasons he's always been the #2 LW behind Kyle Connor. Ehlers plays with the #2 center, gets 2nd unit PP time, and 2nd line ice time. And he still consistantly ranges from .75-1.00 PPG season to season.

I'd say its not so much the increase in ice time that could shoot his numbers up a bit to probably a consistent PPG guy, as much as it is the quality. And don't know how much it will matter but Vancouver certainly has the benefit for him that he'd be the undisputed top winger here.

 

[andora]

The ice time thing is typically true but usually applies to guys like Nils Hoglander from last season. With Ehlers I think you have to look at it as aside from his first few seasons he's always been the #2 LW behind Kyle Connor. Ehlers plays with the #2 center, gets 2nd unit PP time, and 2nd line ice time. And he still consistantly ranges from .75-1.00 PPG season to season.

I'd say its not so much the increase in ice time that could shoot his numbers up a bit to probably a consistent PPG guy, as much as it is the quality. And don't know how much it will matter but Vancouver certainly has the benefit for him that he'd be the undisputed top winger here.

The power play thing is legit yes and he could see a bump from that. Don't get me wrong I like the player I just am weary of him

 

[VanJack]

Canucks signed eight UFA's last off-season, and midway through this season, half of them were gone.

There are are hardly any bargains in free agency any more. You're forced to overpay and offer far too much term. Look at what happened in Boston.

They were determined to sign 30-plus year olds Lindholm and Zadorov to massive contracts with term. And its' blown up in their faces.

I think for the first off-season in quite awhile, the Canucks may only add a secondary piece or two. But will be relying on young players in the system to step up--preferably on ELC's.

 

[Diablo2020]

Canucks signed eight UFA's last off-season, and midway through this season, half of them were gone.

There are are hardly any bargains in free agency any more. You're forced to overpay and offer far too much term. Look at what happened in Boston.

They were determined to sign 30-plus year olds Lindholm and Zadorov to massive contracts with term. And its' blown up in their faces.

I think for the first off-season in quite awhile, the Canucks may only add a secondary piece or two. But will be relying on young players in the system to step up--preferably on ELC's.

Exactly this. Also add getting paid to take capdumps.

Getting paid a 3rd or 4th to eat Ryan Hartman is way better for us than throwing 3-4 years at Roslovic.

Hell you could probably trade that pick to whomever has instant regret on Roslovic and have both makeshift RHCs by Christmas for free.

Thats how a team with no assets to speak of needs to be thinking.

 

[F A N]

I don’t see the point in thinking “if he had known”. Nobody knows the future and you can’t really talk any type of business based on future projections, life doesn’t work like that. I think if Hronek held out for a short term contract and is a UFA this year then yeah I think he would get more than Chychrun because he’s a RHD.

I strongly disagree. Contracts are negotiated based on future cap projections all the time and often discussed here like it's fact. There is clearly a difference in how contract negotiations are approached in a flat cap environment vs a rising cap environment. To be clear we are obviously talking about long term contracts here. It's the same in real life. Certainly you know that you have more leverage to negotiate your compensation if business is expected to grow vs slowing down.

Oh I was just looking at his stats from previous years and he seems more like a 40ish guy with a breakout year this year that seems unsustainable because the caps are on a heater like we were last year.

Again you're ignoring the goals he scores. But even if we go by points, he's scoring at a 54 point pace this year, had 41 last season, 56 point pace the year before. So over his last 3 seasons he's had two seasons where he was putting up points at a mid-50 point seasons and 14+ goals the past three seasons. You can criticize him for not being being able to stay healthy (I would be concerned) or even inconsistent but saying he's a 40ish point guy is disingenuous.

Btw I do agree that Chychrun is probably paid market and this will set the bar for a top 4 offensive guy. With this context, MP is definitely underpaid. I did say MP is probably worth between 6-7 and I say this now with the knowledge of Chychrun setting the market and even as I say that, that’s still not 7.5M.

TLDR: we gotta sweet ass deal

I certainly would agree that Chychrun's contract is pretty rich and M-Petey's is a steal. Given what Hanifin signed for, the only justification for Chychrun's AAV being higher is better offensive production, more certainty in how the cap will rise, state income tax, and Hanifin has greater movement/trade protection.

There is a big difference between M-Petey at $6M and $7M. Give us a more narrow range here. if Chychrun signed for $8M AAV the discussions would also be different.

 

[sting101]

A common tactic when being unable to argue against something effectively is to call it "semantics" lmao.

Laughton and Domi are not good. Domi is horrific defensively and not great offensively. Laughton is just mediocre all-around. You can disagree, but you would be wrong.

I'm not saying re-signing Suter makes us competitive with those other teams. I never said that. Because it doesn't. The Canucks need a lot more.

I'm just making a correction here that Suter is a better player than some of the names that were mentioned, and even after displaying elite defensive + PK value in Vancouver AND basically holding the middle-six together, he is still very underrated by many here.

Maybe you can explain why Laughton got a 1st round pick returned while Suter wasn't even highly sought after as a UFA rental this year. And how we even got Suter for the contract we did when we did?

I guess Suter being "leagues better" must have meant that Allvin was turning down Brock Nelson level returns then?

Or you are just wrong and are using the common tactic of i'm right because i said so LMAO.

What does "leagues better" "horrific defensively" and "not great offensively" actually even mean?

Laughton is faster way more physical is better at face-offs. Has scored as many points at ES as Suter over the last 3yrs while playing on a tire fire team with less offensive zone starts and was more productive in playoffs even if it was awhile ago. The fact that Suter has better possession numbers doesn't mean a lot without the further context of who he's played with and what goalie has been able to support his GF%.

Top linemates in TOI last 3yrs
Suter = Hughes Garland Hronek Joshua Boeser Miller - Demko
Laughton = Sanheim York Farabee Hathaway Konecny Tippett - Ersson

Way better line mates with better goaltending.

Arguing Domi who is a 50pt per 82 career with 26pts in 50 playoff games is "leagues worse" is just wrong also. Toronto and no other team would take Suter over either going into a playoff drive for a Cup

 

[theguardianII]

Fantasy, bad dream, nightmare actually.

2025 first & 2nd With EPD and Willander
2026 first & 2nd
For
Crosby

NOT!

Crosby's contract ends in 2 yrs
Hughes' contract ends in 2 yrs

Both gone after.

Crosby re-signs with Pittsburgh to retire 2027/2028

Allvin's contract ends in 2026/2027 season
He and Tocchet end up in Pittsburgh for 2027/2028 season

Pittsburgh trades Canuck first, 2nd and their own 2nd to trade down to get Misa
Pittsburgh trades Canuck first, their own first, two seconds and Willander to trade down for McKenna

Hughes walks for nothing and signs with his brothers
Crosby gone for nothing.

Allvin gone, Tocchet gone, Rutherford retires, Canucks hire Benning as GM, again and start 15 year rebuild.

Nightmare!!!

But then it all fantasy anyway. And that is real negativity. Looks good for 2 years and then hell.

Morning humor?

 

[F A N]

Maybe you can explain why Laughton got a 1st round pick returned while Suter wasn't even highly sought after as a UFA rental this year. And how we even got Suter for the contract we did when we did?

I guess Suter being "leagues better" must have meant that Allvin was turning down Brock Nelson level returns then?

Or you are just wrong and are using the common tactic of i'm right because i said so LMAO.

What does "leagues better" "horrific defensively" and "not great offensively" actually even mean?

Laughton is faster way more physical is better at face-offs. Has scored as many points at ES as Suter over the last 3yrs while playing on a tire fire team with less offensive zone starts and was more productive in playoffs even if it was awhile ago. The fact that Suter has better possession numbers doesn't mean a lot without the further context of who he's played with and what goalie has been able to support his GF%.

Top linemates in TOI last 3yrs
Suter = Hughes Garland Hronek Joshua Boeser Miller - Demko
Laughton = Sanheim York Farabee Hathaway Konecny Tippett - Ersson

Way better line mates with better goaltending.

Arguing Domi who is a 50pt per 82 career with 26pts in 50 playoff games is "leagues worse" is just wrong also. Toronto and no other team would take Suter over either going into a playoff drive for a Cup

Your comment isn’t directed at me and I didn’t make the comments you disagree with but I do feel Domi and Laughton have better “reputations” than Suter based on the more physical game they play rather than based on effectiveness. Domi to me is just an inconsistent player. He is productive as a top 2C but isn’t the same offensively anywhere else. Leafs fans think he is fine as a 3C but I don’t think so. I think a Domi is propped up by the fact that come playoff time Domi looks like the is trying hard and playoff a more physical game than other Leafs.

Laughton I think is simply inconsistent. His counting stats look fine but his advanced stats suggest he isn’t very good. But he has a reputation for being a good locker room guy etc. Personally I think he is overrated and I think Suter is the better player.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I’m bored ASF rn so I’m gonna do some armchair GMING.

If we want to seriously improve this roster, we need some major turnover. Joshua, Chytil, Blueger, and Hoglander should all be moved to help with this.

Dream scenario is we sign Marner and solve 3-4 problems on offense at once.

Trade Hoggy to CAL for our 3rd back and then offer sheet Cuylle around 7x7M. Rangers will be in the tough having to match the OS with all their RFA’s and raises to Shesterkin + Lafreniere as well as tons of NTC’s/unmoveable contracts with their older players.

The other need is a 2C. The idea should be to target someone who isn’t quite a 2C yet but with potential to grow into one. Sillinger, Geekie, and Pinto types.

Chytil + Joshua + Blueger and a 2025 2nd/3rd for Sillinger could be something Columbus entertains with their endless cap space and need for quality veterans. Chytil, Blueger, and Joshua would be an upgrade over some of the guys they have in their bottom 6.

My ideal scenario:

Cuylle-Pettersson-Marner??
Debrusk-Sillinger-Lekkerimaki
O’Connor-Raty-Garland
________-_______-Sherwood

Getting two U24 core players would be huge for this team on top of Marner. Ideally, you’d want to push Debrusk/O’Connor down a line and get another top 6 player but that can always be done later.

If you can’t get Marner or Ehlers then I guess you might as well just try and figure out a way to re sign Boeser to something appropriate otherwise we’re losing 25-30 goals.