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[bossram]

Its
Wash - Strome Dubois Eller/Dowd
Wpg - Scheifele Namestnikov Lowry
Dall - Duchene Hintz Johnston
Veg - Eichel Hertl Karlsson
Car - Aho Kotkaniemi Staal
Col - MacKinnon Nelson Coyle
Fla - Barkov Bennett Lundell
Tor - Matthews Tavares Domi/Laughton

To you're point.....Suter is a very good player who ideally can be 7-9 on a depth chart and not be relied upon to play C.

Given the list of players above and their roles which one's would substitute Suter with any of them? Probably none

Now that he's looking to cha ching and likely regress in SH% next year we have to explore our options.

Suter is leagues better than Domi/Laughton as a center option. He would be a massive upgrade for TOR.

He would be a better all-around 3C option than Eller or Dowd too, who are more suited more of a 4th line role with mostly pure defensive deployment.

 

[sting101]

i guess the question is whether $5m is the new normal for a good two way 3c. suter is a good two way 3c.

Is he though?

Depends how you want to structure the lineup i guess. For example we are slow and weak. Good player or not having Joshua Boeser and Suter in the top 3 lines if they bring both back with even Blueger/Raty Karlsson on the 4th line is a slow plodding team and will result in another year without providing the speed for us to drive play off the rush and put too much reliance on structure and Hughes Gking to bail us out.

Even if he looks like a no brainer due to Chytil and his unreliability you still have to be adding a 40-55pts C or we are in deep trouble against the top tier teams

 

[Nick Lang]

Hughes’ next contract will be max AAV unless he decides to be kind. And he’ll deserve every penny of it.

Hey guys, so what's the max AAV going to be in 2 years? 20 mil ... it's $17.6 right now if I read that correctly.

His value is absolutely a league-max, no doubt.

Hey guys, so what's the max AAV going to be in 2 years? 20 mil ... it's $17.6 right now if I read that correctly.

I’d also be interested in Reichel from Chicago.

I've really liked this player. He was showing flashes of something here and there but I always felt he was getting lost in the Chicago downslide.

He has also shown to be able to play on a top line and compliment 2 other 1st liners. His versatility has value. Not to mention he has became a very good PK'er. While he lack speed, size and flashy-ness, he is a very good plug-and-play piece that can play just about on any line.

I wouldn't mind signing him to around $5m as long as the term is not long. I'm concerned that other teams will throw out the same cap hit but at a 5-6 years term, that would make me very hesitant to match.

I'd still like to keep our senses. We don't really need a high priced 3C, or stop gap 2C unless we're just kind of giving up and accepting mediocrity while covering our bases. We should still be targeting top 6 players as we have an abundance of bottom 6ers and can't afford to be frivolous there any longer.

$5 mil for 5 or more years is ugly and prohibitive to getting better. As good as he's been he hasn't lead us anywhere yet either. If we could move Joshua I'd replace his contract with a new one for Suter, otherwise I think it's silly to keep throwing money at at a problem we don't have. Just run Blueger, Raty, or Aman, or pickup a cheaper option. It's a higher degree of difficulty but the reward is far higher.

The other thing is that Suter is very consistent. However he's also had great opportunity this season he won't get again if we are successful in rebuilding this roster. If we design the roster better we hopefully won't need a Swiss army knife knife every night.

 

[ManVanFan]

Is he though?

Depends how you want to structure the lineup i guess. For example we are slow and weak. Good player or not having Joshua Boeser and Suter in the top 3 lines if they bring both back with even Blueger/Raty Karlsson on the 4th line is a slow plodding team and will result in another year without providing the speed for us to drive play off the rush and put too much reliance on structure and Hughes Gking to bail us out.

Even if he looks like a no brainer due to Chytil and his unreliability you still have to be adding a 40-55pts C or we are in deep trouble against the top tier teams

Suter's career 82 avg is 35 points. Face off career 42.4%. Canucks are already paying too much for others.

 

[supercanuck]

If Quinn is willing to stay, I see him as a guy who would definitely take a team friendly discount to have a better team around him. The trick is convincing him to stay.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I'd still like to keep our senses. We don't really need a high priced 3C, or stop gap 2C unless we're just kind of giving up and accepting mediocrity while covering our bases. We should still be targeting top 6 players as we have an abundance of bottom 6ers and can't afford to be frivolous there any longer.

$5 mil for 5 or more years is ugly and prohibitive to getting better. As good as he's been he hasn't lead us anywhere yet either. If we could move Joshua I'd replace his contract with a new one for Suter, otherwise I think it's silly to keep throwing money at at a problem we don't have. Just run Blueger, Raty, or Aman, or pickup a cheaper option. It's a higher degree of difficulty but the reward is far higher.

The other thing is that Suter is very consistent. However he's also had great opportunity this season he won't get again if we are successful in rebuilding this roster. If we design the roster better we hopefully won't need a Swiss army knife knife every night.

I guess it depends on how the roster building goes heading into UFA. If we somehow find a capable 2C, and Chytil is projected to be healthy and can take over 3C, then we don't need to bring back Suter unless its a good deal.

Unfortunately I don't see us adding a legit 2C and Chytil is injury-prone, so having Suter is a good insurance, who can shift to the wing if we do end up getting an upgrade down the road. He also helps make our PK a strength, so even if he isn't deployed as a 3C he still provides utility. Even if he doesn't score 20 again, having a 15G 15A player on the bottom 6 provides scoring depth that good teams have.

I wouldn't do $5m x 5 like I previously posted, but if it is somewhere like $4.5m-5m, at 3-4 years, I think we have to do it. Running a center core of EP40-Chytil-Blueger-Raty-Aman next season is going to be problematic even when everybody is healthy. Again, it all depends on whether we can get a 2C or not. If we can say sign Duchene (hypothetically, doesn't have to be him specifically), then it will be ok to let Suter walk.

 

[rypper]

We're probably too far past the ability to offer more term or a lower cost, but that might have been swell.

 

[thecupismine]

The thing with Pius is a lot of the uptick in scoring this year is % driven - he's pretty consistently been a 12-13% guy who's shooting 18%+ this year.

Whatever contract you give, you have to be ok with him reverting to 15-15 in 70 status.

He's a fantastic utility player who can play any position up and down the lineup & I wouldn't mind him back, but there's a bunch of gaping holes in the top 6 that need to be addressed as well that might limit cap space.

 

[ManVanFan]

We're probably too far past the ability to offer more term or a lower cost, but that might have been swell.

Time to just move on.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Plus the fact the Canucks just keep paying all these players more and more and it's not as if they are really scaring anyone.

25 Regulation wins out of 71 games. Thank god for the loser point.

Team has been ass and should be nowhere near a playoff spot with that home record.

 

[ManVanFan]

Team has been ass and should be nowhere near a playoff spot with that home record.

They are probably a few spots higher than they deserve thanks to the extra point. They are very much in the mushy middle and it kind of sucks. Management has been mediocre unfortunately. A step ahead of Benning era but not by much.

 

[Diversification]

All the remaining UFA D are going to make f***ing bank.
Ekblad
Orlov
Pionk
Provorov
Gavikrov

I think all of them are going to get like 8-9M easy and with that, 5 teams are going to go from having a lot of cap to not a lot real quick.

Gavrikov gambling by signing a short-term contract, looking like it's going to pay off big.

 

[theguardianII]

Hey guys, so what's the max AAV going to be in 2 years? 20 mil ... it's $17.6 right now if I read that correctly.

More like a little over 21 mil for 2027

I'd still like to keep our senses. We don't really need a high priced 3C, or stop gap 2C unless we're just kind of giving up and accepting mediocrity while covering our bases. We should still be targeting top 6 players as we have an abundance of bottom 6ers and can't afford to be frivolous there any longer.

Canucks are really going to be hurting with the increases.

As I posted somewhere, over the next two scheduled cap increases of 16 mil or so the Canucks have already committed over 10 million for buyouts, so they have a lot less than other teams.

With those increases teams will not be feeling the pressure they did to trade away high level prospects or players to make the cap.
This will last about 3/4years due to contracts already signed.
But contracts signed now will be wanting to reflect those increases, so shorter or bigger or both.

With those types of increases every team in the league can make Hughes a max offer. At his age it is more likely he would do a Mathews type contract, 4 to 6 years and then have one more big payday for another 4 to 6 years when the cap is around 160+ mil.

That is why thinking the business of hockey and the situation the Canucks are in, drafting a couple of stars makes so much sense for years, not just competitively but also in cap management. High skill at very low cap hits. But they need those star players at any rate, for the future.
Especially as the Canucks will not have the best trade prospects or players made available. To get one from a team that doesn't have to make trade means the Canucks will have to over pay immensely, so lose every trade.

 

[sting101]

Suter is leagues better than Domi/Laughton as a center option. He would be a massive upgrade for TOR.

He would be a better all-around 3C option than Eller or Dowd too, who are more suited more of a 4th line role with mostly pure defensive deployment.

Leagues better? nah i doubt TO would move either for Suter

Sure ok maybe the Caps but Eller and Dowd are really accomplished heavy defensive players and if they wanted to run 3 more offensive Cs to balance 3 lines they could just move Protas or McMichael to C

 

[bossram]

Leagues better? nah i doubt TO would move either for Suter

Sure ok maybe the Caps but Eller and Dowd are really accomplished heavy defensive players and if they wanted to run 3 more offensive Cs to balance 3 lines they could just move Protas or McMichael to C

Yes he is leagues better than Domi/Laughton. Vastly better defensively than both, and arguably better offensively too (certainly more than Laughton). Also an elite PKer, which Laughton is bad at and Domi can't do. Domi/Laughton are also less effective centers than Suter - Laughton's already been demoted to 4LW on TOR, and mostly played wing in Philly this season. Would TO swap them for Suter? I dunno, but that's more because Treliving is a bad GM - the Laughton trade was horrible in the first place.

WSH has a good thing going on. I don't think they would rock the boat just because. But Suter is a better all-around player than Eller/Dowd, who it sounds like you agree are more suited to pure defensive deployment. McMichael/Protas aren't centers and don't play center at the NHL level.

 

[Nick Lang]

I guess it depends on how the roster building goes heading into UFA. If we somehow find a capable 2C, and Chytil is projected to be healthy and can take over 3C, then we don't need to bring back Suter unless its a good deal.

Unfortunately I don't see us adding a legit 2C and Chytil is injury-prone, so having Suter is a good insurance, who can shift to the wing if we do end up getting an upgrade down the road. He also helps make our PK a strength, so even if he isn't deployed as a 3C he still provides utility. Even if he doesn't score 20 again, having a 15G 15A player on the bottom 6 provides scoring depth that good teams have.

I wouldn't do $5m x 5 like I previously posted, but if it is somewhere like $4.5m-5m, at 3-4 years, I think we have to do it. Running a center core of EP40-Chytil-Blueger-Raty-Aman next season is going to be problematic even when everybody is healthy. Again, it all depends on whether we can get a 2C or not. If we can say sign Duchene (hypothetically, doesn't have to be him specifically), then it will be ok to let Suter walk.

Yeah I pretty much agree with the sentiment here. The Chytil situation must be figured out. Like I alluded to Suter feels like a contingency plan ... so if he signs it could end up with us being an anemic offence yet again next year without much upside.

If we don't sign Suter and miss out on another C we could be in big trouble so Suter would at least prevent that, but it smacks of complacency and acceptance of mediocrity. We'd be covered no matter what but we wouldn't be overly good. I would prefer we actually try and fail. The downside is we actually get some real top 6 help to give us promise and then are saddled with a $5 mil bottom 6/slide up utility salary hit which pushes otherwise affordable bottom 6 out of the lineup for a $5 mil cap hit, and leaves us $4 mil short for another top 6 player.

I'm not sure on the timing but theoretically we could attempt to make that 2C trade before the draft and before offering Suter an extension, or chancing UFA.

 

[sting101]

Yes he is leagues better than Domi/Laughton. Vastly better defensively than both, and arguably better offensively too (certainly more than Laughton). Also an elite PKer, which Laughton is bad at and Domi can't do. Domi/Laughton are also less effective centers than Suter - Laughton's already been demoted to 4LW on TOR, and mostly played wing in Philly this season. Would TO swap them for Suter? I dunno, but that's more because Treliving is a bad GM - the Laughton trade was horrible in the first place.

WSH has a good thing going on. I don't think they would rock the boat just because. But Suter is a better all-around player than Eller/Dowd, who it sounds like you agree are more suited to pure defensive deployment. McMichael/Protas aren't centers and don't play center at the NHL level.

A lot of semantics (and i disagree on Laughton Domi) to justify 2 spots in 24 on contenders where both those teams wouldn't care to be swinging an attractive package for Suter to "fix" or upgrade things.

The bottom line is he's scraping the barrel as far as needing to re sign to keep/make us competitive with those teams

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

The thing with Pius is a lot of the uptick in scoring this year is % driven - he's pretty consistently been a 12-13% guy who's shooting 18%+ this year.

Whatever contract you give, you have to be ok with him reverting to 15-15 in 70 status.

He's a fantastic utility player who can play any position up and down the lineup & I wouldn't mind him back, but there's a bunch of gaping holes in the top 6 that need to be addressed as well that might limit cap space.

I do think if they bring Suter back it allows them to move Chytil into the top six as a winger. I think they know they need a top six center and Chytil is not it.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

More like a little over 21 mil for 2027

Canucks are really going to be hurting with the increases.

As I posted somewhere, over the next two scheduled cap increases of 16 mil or so the Canucks have already committed over 10 million for buyouts, so they have a lot less than other teams.

With those increases teams will not be feeling the pressure they did to trade away high level prospects or players to make the cap.
This will last about 3/4years due to contracts already signed.
But contracts signed now will be wanting to reflect those increases, so shorter or bigger or both.

With those types of increases every team in the league can make Hughes a max offer. At his age it is more likely he would do a Mathews type contract, 4 to 6 years and then have one more big payday for another 4 to 6 years when the cap is around 160+ mil.

That is why thinking the business of hockey and the situation the Canucks are in, drafting a couple of stars makes so much sense for years, not just competitively but also in cap management. High skill at very low cap hits. But they need those star players at any rate, for the future.
Especially as the Canucks will not have the best trade prospects or players made available. To get one from a team that doesn't have to make trade means the Canucks will have to over pay immensely, so lose every trade.

You worry too much. If other teams get more cap space then so do the Canucks. It's all relative.

Besides the year Hughes needs an extension the OEL buyout drops from 4.77M to 2.13M and won't have any other dead contracts (as of yet).

 

[arttk]

Gavrikov gambling by signing a short-term contract, looking like it's going to pay off big.

Yeah he’s going to try to get the Chychrun contract from someone. Guessing probably higher AAV if LA doesn’t give him a 8 year deal.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Yeah I pretty much agree with the sentiment here. The Chytil situation must be figured out. Like I alluded to Suter feels like a contingency plan ... so if he signs it could end up with us being an anemic offence yet again next year without much upside.

If we don't sign Suter and miss out on another C we could be in big trouble so Suter would at least prevent that, but it smacks of complacency and acceptance of mediocrity. We'd be covered no matter what but we wouldn't be overly good. I would prefer we actually try and fail. The downside is we actually get some real top 6 help to give us promise and then are saddled with a $5 mil bottom 6/slide up utility salary hit which pushes otherwise affordable bottom 6 out of the lineup for a $5 mil cap hit, and leaves us $4 mil short for another top 6 player.

I'm not sure on the timing but theoretically we could attempt to make that 2C trade before the draft and before offering Suter an extension, or chancing UFA.

We can try to trade our 2025 1st at or just before the draft, that is when picks seems to have the highest value. I just don't see any 2C available for a mid 1st in a weak-ish draft, and one that is not already on the decline and somewhat fitting our age group.

I guess going into the draft, Allvin has to see how many pending UFA centers have already extended. If, for example, Duchene/Tavares/Bennett already extended, then you already know the market will be barren and you can plan accordingly. If all of those guys are looking like they will hit UFA, you can plan to go after one of them and put Suter as "plan B".

But you are right, signing Suter to a $5m cap hit will prevent us from making other meaningful upgrades, its more just to tread water, at least offensively. I'm personally hoping for 1 big trade (for a 2C) and 1 big signing (Marner/Ehlers), but that is very very difficult to pull off. If we can't replenish our top 6, we might just have to go into next season with a "scoring by committee" mindset.

 

[arttk]

We can try to trade our 2025 1st at or just before the draft, that is when picks seems to have the highest value. I just don't see any 2C available for a mid 1st in a weak-ish draft, and one that is not already on the decline and somewhat fitting our age group.

I guess going into the draft, Allvin has to see how many pending UFA centers have already extended. If, for example, Duchene/Tavares/Bennett already extended, then you already know the market will be barren and you can plan accordingly. If all of those guys are looking like they will hit UFA, you can plan to go after one of them and put Suter as "plan B".

But you are right, signing Suter to a $5m cap hit will prevent us from making other meaningful upgrades, its more just to tread water, at least offensively. I'm personally hoping for 1 big trade (for a 2C) and 1 big signing (Marner/Ehlers), but that is very very difficult to pull off. If we can't replenish our top 6, we might just have to go into next season with a "scoring by committee" mindset.

Bruins might be a team that is willing to trade away a center for a pick, they might see this year and the next as an opportunity to restock. Issue is would we want to pay that much for Zacha/Mittlestadt/Geekie.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Very unpopular opinion but I wish management knew in hindsight about Miller and could have traded him earlier and then resigned Lindholm. Context is I'm probably a bigger Lindholm fan than most here. He would be fine as our 2C.

 

[F A N]

I see him as a capable 3C who can play spot duty up a peg but you don’t want that for long stretches.

I wouldn't say he's an ideal 2C on a contender, no. But if he can maintain being a 0.5 PPG guy, with his trademark elite defensive + PK play, while sticking at center....that is absolutely a 2C quality player relative to the rest of the league.

Suter is leagues better than Domi/Laughton as a center option. He would be a massive upgrade for TOR.

He would be a better all-around 3C option than Eller or Dowd too, who are more suited more of a 4th line role with mostly pure defensive deployment.

You guys don't see Suter as a 5C?

 

[bossram]

A lot of semantics (and i disagree on Laughton Domi) to justify 2 spots in 24 on contenders where both those teams wouldn't care to be swinging an attractive package for Suter to "fix" or upgrade things.

The bottom line is he's scraping the barrel as far as needing to re sign to keep/make us competitive with those teams

A common tactic when being unable to argue against something effectively is to call it "semantics" lmao.

Laughton and Domi are not good. Domi is horrific defensively and not great offensively. Laughton is just mediocre all-around. You can disagree, but you would be wrong.

I'm not saying re-signing Suter makes us competitive with those other teams. I never said that. Because it doesn't. The Canucks need a lot more.

I'm just making a correction here that Suter is a better player than some of the names that were mentioned, and even after displaying elite defensive + PK value in Vancouver AND basically holding the middle-six together, he is still very underrated by many here.