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credulous said:
i wasn't suggesting carolina will sign those guys i was just using them as an example of the kind of cap space teams will have available. the canucks aren't in some uniquely good cap situation going into the offseason. almost every team has it's best cap situation in a decade
Click to expand...

Again that is also not really my point... my point was there is teams like them that may have cap space but face other challenges...

It also wasn't to say we are in a good position. I generally agree with your earlier post I think the first on this topic... but do think this is important to note as well.
 
Reverend Mayhem said:
So much more room for GMs to sign incredibly dumb deals. Glad not to be in that position.
Click to expand...

I suspect we'll see big numbers but lower term. Getting the cap number down by adding years won't be as important. It'll be more like the NBA where rapid inflation led to players opting for shorter terms.

For example, could see Mitch Marner signing a 4 year $64m contract, with the expectation that he'll be able to cash in one more time with an even higher cap. Auston Matthews has basically already done this.
 
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racerjoe said:
Again that is also not really my point... my point was there is teams like them that may have cap space but face other challenges...

It also wasn't to say we are in a good position. I generally agree with your earlier post I think the first on this topic... but do think this is important to note as well.
Click to expand...

Teams with little cap (under 10M) with very little spots to fill

St.Louis

Teams with moderate cap (10M-20M) with very little spots to fill

Van
Nash

Teams with moderate cap (10-20M) with ~ 5 spots to fill

Utah
Minny

Teams with a lot of cap (20M+) with ~ 5-7 spots to fill

Toronto
LA

Teams with insane amount of cap (40M+) and a lot of spots to fill

CBJ

Teams that can't spend on high price FA or limited in what they can do

Teams with less than/around 10M in cap and more than 5 spots to fill (~2M per spot?)

Dallas
Colorado
Tampa
Vegas
NYR
Montreal

Teams with moderate cap (10M-20M) with a lot of spots to fill
(~2.5M per spot)

SEA
FLORIDA
OTTAWA
NJD
EDM



Teams that can't/won't spend because of philosophy or nobody wants to go there.

Teams with a lot of cap and at least 7 spots to fill and has a history of not paying people ever

Carolina

Teams with cap (20M+) but nobody wants to go

Buffalo

Teams with a ton of cap (30m+) but nobody wants to go

Chicago
Winnipeg

Teams with a ton of cap (30M+) but will most likely not spend to it and has at least 5 spots to fill

SJ
Ana
 
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Vector said:


Boeser
  • Never gave up and is amazing how perception can change in a week
  • Only Bure and Linden reached 200 goals, as a Canuck, faster
  • Proved, last night, he was a clutch goal scorer last night
  • Is best friends with Hughes, is well-liked in the dressing room, and doesn’t want to leave Vancouver
  • Will get paid 8m plus on his next contract
  • Big issue will be term; thinks there are teams that are afraid to commit 6-7 years
  • Figures the Canucks will take more runs at signing him
  • That the Canucks made him an offer during the TDL tells Dhaliwal that the Canucks do want to keep him
  • Canucks are only looking for a bargain on term; offered him 5y/8m and thinks the Canucks are in the ballpark moneywise
  • They do respect Boeser and want him back
  • Teams are worried about how his skating and footspeed will age
  • Understands why the Canucks are only willing to go 5 and other teams have told Dhaliwal that the Canucks are correct in that evaluation
  • Tough call from both sides
  • Coaches didn’t have agents 20-30 years ago but do now
  • His next contract won’t come cheap; makes 2.7m right now
  • If he leaves, Canucks will be on their 4th coach in 4 years
Suter
  • Contract talks between Suter and the Canucks went cold at the TDL
  • Since the TDL, have had loose contract talks with the Canucks
  • Could get close to 4m as a UFA
  • Canucks need a playmaking 2nd line centre
  • Don’t see them going outside their comfort zone to sign Suter the same way they did with Lankinen
Willander
  • NCAA brackets will be decided this Sunday
  • Boston University could play as early as Mar. 27th and if they lose Willander could sign immediately afterwards
  • Many NCAA players try to burn a year of their ELCs but history shows that doesn’t actually help and a normal three year development makes the 2nd contract larger
  • Need to produce really fast in order to cash in on the 2nd contract
  • Willander’s agent, Todd Diamond, will prioritize long-term earning power
  • Willander’s father is a skills coach and values development
  • Contract may come down to a battle over Schedule A. performance bonuses; Willander will easily exceed Lekkerimaki’s bonuses but is capped at 1m as per the CBA
  • Willander may finish the school year since he is an excellent student
  • Once Willander’s team is eliminate, things will develop quickly
  • Some people say he has a professional hockey body already
  • Canucks have some depth in terms of young defenceman
Tocchet
  • Thought Tocchet said all the right things earlier
  • Canucks have made it clear that they want him back but Tocchet is clearly not ready to commit
  • Canucks will need to articulate a vision and sell him on staying
  • Has been an exhausting year; lots of things have gone wrong
  • Tocchet and Hughes were the two guys most affected by the Miller vs. Pettersson feud; both tried really hard to fix the relationship
  • Will need a lot of answers to a lot of questions
  • Has all the leverage; will be a bad look if he leaves
Second Line Centre
  • Everyone wants Willander, Lekkerimaki, and a 1st round pick
  • Will have to overpay on July 1st
July 1st Wishlist
  • Wonders if the dressing room needs more leadership and toughness
  • Canucks had interest in Brandon Duhaime last season and Tom Wilson has been raving about him; Canucks need more of that
JT Miller
  • Hard to believe this won’t be an emotional game for him
  • No one thought the relationship with him would end the way it did
  • Doesn’t think we will ever know the true reason for his leave of absence or how the situation got so bad with Pettersson
  • One million rumours out there and a lot of people believing a whole lot of crap
  • Canucks picked Miller over Horvat and then picked Pettersson over Miller
  • Was told that Miller is very popular in the Rangers’ dressing room; coaches, players, and management like him
  • Canucks are in a better place with him gone
Click to expand...

Lek and a 1st for a quality top 6 C seems like a no brainer.
 
arttk said:
Teams with little cap (under 10M) with very little spots to fill

St.Louis

Teams with moderate cap (10M-20M) with very little spots to fill

Van
Nash

Teams with moderate cap (10-20M) with ~ 5 spots to fill

Utah
Minny

Teams with insane amount of cap (40M+) and a lot of spots to fill

CBJ

Teams that can't spend on high price FA or limited in what they can do

Teams with less than/around 10M in cap and more than 5 spots to fill (~2M per spot?)

Dallas
Colorado
Tampa
Vegas
NYR
Montreal

Teams with moderate cap (10M-20M) with a lot of spots to fill
(~2.5M per spot)

SEA
FLORIDA
OTTAWA
NJD
EDM



Teams that can't/won't spend because of philosophy or nobody wants to go there.

Teams with a lot of cap and at least 7 spots to fill and has a history of not paying people ever

Carolina

Teams with cap (20M+) but nobody wants to go

Buffalo

Teams with a ton of cap (30m+) but nobody wants to go

Chicago
Winnipeg

Teams with a ton of cap (30M+) but will most likely not spend to it and has at least 5 spots to fill

SJ
Ana
Click to expand...

This analysis is somewhat lacking - the Canucks have a lot of roster players signed but obviously have some major holes.
 
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Ernie said:
This analysis is somewhat lacking - the Canucks have a lot of roster players signed but obviously have some major holes.
Click to expand...
yeah but the moment you start replacing rosters players that are signed, you are also freeing up cap to do so. you replace Hoglander with somebody else .. that's 3M towards the replacement. You replace Garland with someone else, that's 5M towards replacement.

Looking at it right now, there is two empty roster spots next season and we have 14M to address that 2 specific openings.

Can the analysis be much more detailed, yes of course. Do I have the time? No but at least that's higher fidelity than OoOoO so many teams have cap.
 
Vector said:


Boeser
  • Never gave up and is amazing how perception can change in a week
  • Only Bure and Linden reached 200 goals, as a Canuck, faster
  • Proved, last night, he was a clutch goal scorer last night
  • Is best friends with Hughes, is well-liked in the dressing room, and doesn’t want to leave Vancouver
  • Will get paid 8m plus on his next contract
  • Big issue will be term; thinks there are teams that are afraid to commit 6-7 years
  • Figures the Canucks will take more runs at signing him
  • That the Canucks made him an offer during the TDL tells Dhaliwal that the Canucks do want to keep him
  • Canucks are only looking for a bargain on term; offered him 5y/8m and thinks the Canucks are in the ballpark moneywise
  • They do respect Boeser and want him back
  • Teams are worried about how his skating and footspeed will age
  • Understands why the Canucks are only willing to go 5 and other teams have told Dhaliwal that the Canucks are correct in that evaluation
  • Tough call from both sides
  • Coaches didn’t have agents 20-30 years ago but do now
  • His next contract won’t come cheap; makes 2.7m right now
  • If he leaves, Canucks will be on their 4th coach in 4 years
Suter
  • Contract talks between Suter and the Canucks went cold at the TDL
  • Since the TDL, have had loose contract talks with the Canucks
  • Could get close to 4m as a UFA
  • Canucks need a playmaking 2nd line centre
  • Don’t see them going outside their comfort zone to sign Suter the same way they did with Lankinen
Willander
  • NCAA brackets will be decided this Sunday
  • Boston University could play as early as Mar. 27th and if they lose Willander could sign immediately afterwards
  • Many NCAA players try to burn a year of their ELCs but history shows that doesn’t actually help and a normal three year development makes the 2nd contract larger
  • Need to produce really fast in order to cash in on the 2nd contract
  • Willander’s agent, Todd Diamond, will prioritize long-term earning power
  • Willander’s father is a skills coach and values development
  • Contract may come down to a battle over Schedule A. performance bonuses; Willander will easily exceed Lekkerimaki’s bonuses but is capped at 1m as per the CBA
  • Willander may finish the school year since he is an excellent student
  • Once Willander’s team is eliminate, things will develop quickly
  • Some people say he has a professional hockey body already
  • Canucks have some depth in terms of young defenceman
Tocchet
  • Thought Tocchet said all the right things earlier
  • Canucks have made it clear that they want him back but Tocchet is clearly not ready to commit
  • Canucks will need to articulate a vision and sell him on staying
  • Has been an exhausting year; lots of things have gone wrong
  • Tocchet and Hughes were the two guys most affected by the Miller vs. Pettersson feud; both tried really hard to fix the relationship
  • Will need a lot of answers to a lot of questions
  • Has all the leverage; will be a bad look if he leaves
Second Line Centre
  • Everyone wants Willander, Lekkerimaki, and a 1st round pick
  • Will have to overpay on July 1st
July 1st Wishlist
  • Wonders if the dressing room needs more leadership and toughness
  • Canucks had interest in Brandon Duhaime last season and Tom Wilson has been raving about him; Canucks need more of that
JT Miller
  • Hard to believe this won’t be an emotional game for him
  • No one thought the relationship with him would end the way it did
  • Doesn’t think we will ever know the true reason for his leave of absence or how the situation got so bad with Pettersson
  • One million rumours out there and a lot of people believing a whole lot of crap
  • Canucks picked Miller over Horvat and then picked Pettersson over Miller
  • Was told that Miller is very popular in the Rangers’ dressing room; coaches, players, and management like him
  • Canucks are in a better place with him gone
Click to expand...



Given the 2Cs traded at the deadline, I'm glad management held onto their assets. In particular, Lekkerimaki.

Their forward quality is such that any prospect showing talent should be guarded.

Suter/Boeser should have gotten done earlier in the year. Management is not going to get a bargain on Boeser's term. 6 years minimum. Nor are they getting Suter for a song. I really don't understand management's strategy here?

Management picked Miller over Horvat... In terms of cap and the 'room', this has now become apparent. It's too bad it cost Horvat a chance to finish his career here.

Tocchet: "Lots of things have gone wrong"... Yes, and he's part of it. But it is a bad look if he leaves and they can definitely do worse than Tocchet, if given the chance. Hope he re-signs and improves.
 
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credulous said:
i'm right there with you on this. the idea that vancouver's cap space is an edge this summer is just flat out wrong. vancouver are actually disadvantaged compared to most of the league. most teams are in a position to sign whoever they want without having to make any decisions at all. carolina can offer ehlers 9m, marner 14m and ekblad 10m and still have enough left over to resign roslovic at 4m. the cap picture around the league is going to be dramatically different this offseason
Click to expand...
Cap space, like space-time continuum, is relative

Canucks will finally be getting cap space when most other teams are getting even more of it

as a side result, we see cosmic inflation, as the league grows from 32 to 36 quanta, as Bettman gets his mess on

Quark you, Gary, quark you
 
Bleach Clean said:
Given the 2Cs traded at the deadline, I'm glad management held onto their assets. In particular, Lekkerimaki.

Their forward quality is such that any prospect showing talent should be guarded.

Suter/Boeser should have gotten done earlier in the year. Management is not going to get a bargain on Boeser's term. 6 years minimum. Nor are they getting Suter for a song. I really don't understand management's strategy here?

Management picked Miller over Horvat... In terms of cap and the 'room', this has now become apparent. It's too bad it cost Horvat a chance to finish his career here.

Tocchet: "Lots of things have gone wrong"... Yes, and he's part of it. But it is a bad look if he leaves and they can definitely do worse than Tocchet, if given the chance. Hope he re-signs and improves.
Click to expand...

I think we choice Miller primarily because he does bring that Jam, that we are missing. No question what we lost there. I still think it was the wrong move now in our hindsight. Given that Miller has created this type of environment a few times. I was pro the miller signing and liked the deal we got for Horvat... but you have to change your opinion as new information becomes available.
 
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racerjoe said:
Again that is also not really my point... my point was there is teams like them that may have cap space but face other challenges...
Click to expand...

The copium of fans thinking the Anaheim and Columbus types aren't about to explode over the next couple years is crazy.

Like 10 teams lurking in the weeds waiting for this cap bump who are all now on the verge of actually winning, but Canuck fans think they'll all just status quo cause Trump economics and whatnot.

The shock when all these teams blast past us into playoff contender status while we spin wheels is going to be brutal.

Vector said:
I’d be extremely hesitant on Duchene. I don’t think he’s the kind of player the team is necessarily looking to add. Both in playstyle and locker room attitude.
Click to expand...

It is such a bad UFA class we're debating each other on 34 year old Matt Duchene.

Not to mention it's 34 yr old Matt Duchene who would never come here unless it was purely about the money.

Ohhh but we can guarantee him a #2C spot.

Ohhh but he'd get to play with Huggy..

Canucks fans need to stay in their lane. Matt Duchene would have to be desperate to sign in Vancouver. And he won't need to be. Lots of sunbelt teams also have ice time for him.

Jack Roslovic, I could see.

Ernie said:
This analysis is somewhat lacking - the Canucks have a lot of roster players signed but obviously have some major holes.
Click to expand...

I didn't see Boston included at all.

Someone suffering from the copium tell me how Morgan Geekie takes up their 28 million capspace please.

Or how Trump economics is hurting Jeremy Jacob's..

Convince me they won't be spending every dime of that 28m and how "opportunity and huggy" in VAN is way better than Pasta, McAvoy and opportunity in BOS.
 
arttk said:
yeah but the moment you start replacing rosters players that are signed, you are also freeing up cap to do so. you replace Hoglander with somebody else .. that's 3M towards the replacement. You replace Garland with someone else, that's 5M towards replacement.

Looking at it right now, there is two empty roster spots next season and we have 14M to address that 2 specific openings.

Can the analysis be much more detailed, yes of course. Do I have the time? No but at least that's higher fidelity than OoOoO so many teams have cap.
Click to expand...

I guess it's marginally more useful. James Mirtle took a stab at it back in December and came up with this:
  1. Carolina Hurricanes
  2. Winnipeg Jets
  3. Colorado Avalanche
  4. Florida Panthers
  5. Dallas Stars
  6. Vancouver Canucks
  7. Utah Hockey Club
  8. Vegas Golden Knights
  9. Washington Capitals
  10. Toronto Maple Leafs
  11. Minnesota Wild
  12. Edmonton Oilers
  13. New Jersey Devils
  14. New York Rangers
  15. Calgary Flames
  16. Tampa Bay Lightning
  17. Los Angeles Kings
  18. Boston Bruins
  19. Buffalo Sabres
  20. Columbus Blue Jackets
  21. Ottawa Senators
  22. Montreal Canadiens
  23. Anaheim Ducks
  24. Philadelphia Flyers
  25. Detroit Red Wings
  26. Chicago Blackhawks
  27. San Jose Sharks
  28. Nashville Predators
  29. Pittsburgh Penguins
  30. Seattle Kraken
  31. St. Louis Blues
  32. New York Islanders

There has obviously been some roster turnover since then.
 
Ernie said:
I suspect we'll see big numbers but lower term. Getting the cap number down by adding years won't be as important. It'll be more like the NBA where rapid inflation led to players opting for shorter terms.

For example, could see Mitch Marner signing a 4 year $64m contract, with the expectation that he'll be able to cash in one more time with an even higher cap. Auston Matthews has basically already done this.
Click to expand...

There's huge risk in that though. What happens if he gets a major injury?
 
Ernie said:
I guess it's marginally more useful. James Mirtle took a stab at it back in December and came up with this:
  1. Carolina Hurricanes
  2. Winnipeg Jets
  3. Colorado Avalanche
  4. Florida Panthers
  5. Dallas Stars
  6. Vancouver Canucks
  7. Utah Hockey Club
  8. Vegas Golden Knights
  9. Washington Capitals
  10. Toronto Maple Leafs
  11. Minnesota Wild
  12. Edmonton Oilers
  13. New Jersey Devils
  14. New York Rangers
  15. Calgary Flames
  16. Tampa Bay Lightning
  17. Los Angeles Kings
  18. Boston Bruins
  19. Buffalo Sabres
  20. Columbus Blue Jackets
  21. Ottawa Senators
  22. Montreal Canadiens
  23. Anaheim Ducks
  24. Philadelphia Flyers
  25. Detroit Red Wings
  26. Chicago Blackhawks
  27. San Jose Sharks
  28. Nashville Predators
  29. Pittsburgh Penguins
  30. Seattle Kraken
  31. St. Louis Blues
  32. New York Islanders

There has obviously been some roster turnover since then.
Click to expand...
Looking at it it seems like he is just looking at it from a different perspective which is how much money they have, how much they have to potentially spend on RFAs and at the end how much spending power they have. I don't think it changes the fact that it doesn't matter how much money the Jets have, they won't spend it because they are an uber small market team and they are already having trouble with money right now and it's highly unlikley they will spend to the max nevermind the fact nobody wants to go to Winnipeg. This also applies different to Carolina where they have never and will probably never spend market rate or above market on high price FAs, it seems like their motto is to get a bargain, period, so who knows how much of a player they are in UFA.

Landscape has changed for a lof the teams on the list for sure, even if updated, I am not sure that ranking has any meaning at all. Realistically, what's the difference between a team ranked at 14 vs 24? No f***ing clue.

But if you look at what I've done, at least you can say .. ok, St.Louis, Van, Nash, Utah, Minny, Toronto, LA, CBJ are probably players in the high price FA market. Probably can break it down in more detail to see which team is more focus on D vs F so won't be competing with us as much and then which team cares more about wingers vs centers.
 
Ernie said:
I guess it's marginally more useful. James Mirtle took a stab at it back in December and came up with this:
  1. Carolina Hurricanes
  2. Winnipeg Jets
  3. Colorado Avalanche
  4. Florida Panthers
  5. Dallas Stars
  6. Vancouver Canucks
  7. Utah Hockey Club
  8. Vegas Golden Knights
  9. Washington Capitals
  10. Toronto Maple Leafs
  11. Minnesota Wild
  12. Edmonton Oilers
  13. New Jersey Devils
  14. New York Rangers
  15. Calgary Flames
  16. Tampa Bay Lightning
  17. Los Angeles Kings
  18. Boston Bruins
  19. Buffalo Sabres
  20. Columbus Blue Jackets
  21. Ottawa Senators
  22. Montreal Canadiens
  23. Anaheim Ducks
  24. Philadelphia Flyers
  25. Detroit Red Wings
  26. Chicago Blackhawks
  27. San Jose Sharks
  28. Nashville Predators
  29. Pittsburgh Penguins
  30. Seattle Kraken
  31. St. Louis Blues
  32. New York Islanders

There has obviously been some roster turnover since then.
Click to expand...
How the heck are we ranked 6.
 
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