These are all stop gap solutions, which is fine. Having that stop gap doesn't mean management shouldn't be doing everything they can go acquire a better solution. Considering where we are at, it is more pragmatic to have a stop gap and see if any of our young D like DPetey, Mynio, Mancini, KK plays well enough where their value goes up to the point we can use one of them as a package deal to get a young 2C back.
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- Thread starter Canuckle1970
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Fans, in general, have absolutely no idea about coaching. Now there are some that are obviously bad, have lost the room, or are poor fits but that's not what we're seeing with Tocchet.
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
If any of those guys would like to sign for $6Mx2, I'd do it. Minus Granlund. I don't see him as a viable NHL center. Tavares is f***ing slow and while he has great playmaking ability, not the greatest puck distributor from the middle of the ice. Brock Nelson - a miniature Tavares who doesn't win draws as well.
I think they'll all get above that, so it's not really worth discussing much in length, in my mind as stop-gap candidates. I don't get why we are trying to solve the issue of this team, which was created thru taking on boat anchors (OEL) and horrible FA targets that got massively overpaid (cannon fodder traded for OEL)...only to once again be looking at solutions on the single day when GMs are at their stupidest.
TruGr1t
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The issue has nothing to do with fans or the organization, really. By not signing Tocchet, they have basically left it up to him. He will come back if he wants, and leave if he wants. Even if this phantom "team option" is a mutual option and they can force him to stay, there is no way they will keep a coach temporarily on a one-year holdover deal if he intends to leave anyways ... plus can you imagine forcing a coach to stay behind the bench against his will.
If he intends to leave, it is in their best interest to identify a long-term coaching option and let him walk.
LemonSauceD
The Negotiator
Mackie Samoskevich (LW) 22
Conor Geekie (C) 20
Simon Holmstrom (RW) 23
Cole Sillinger (C) 22
Dawson Mercer (C/RW) 23
Yegor Chinakov (W) 23
Shane Pinto (C) 24
Ivan Miroshnichenko (LW) 21
Will Cuylle (LW) 23
Tyson Foerster (RW) 23
Mavrik Bourque (W) 23
Jack Quinn (RW) 23
Luke Evangelista (RW) 23
Kirby Dach (C) 24
Ridley Greg (C/LW) 22
Elmer Soderblom (W) 23
guys I like for us to target. Samoskevich, Cuylle, Soderblom and Sillinger are on my wish list.
Conor Geekie (C) 20
Simon Holmstrom (RW) 23
Cole Sillinger (C) 22
Dawson Mercer (C/RW) 23
Yegor Chinakov (W) 23
Shane Pinto (C) 24
Ivan Miroshnichenko (LW) 21
Will Cuylle (LW) 23
Tyson Foerster (RW) 23
Mavrik Bourque (W) 23
Jack Quinn (RW) 23
Luke Evangelista (RW) 23
Kirby Dach (C) 24
Ridley Greg (C/LW) 22
Elmer Soderblom (W) 23
guys I like for us to target. Samoskevich, Cuylle, Soderblom and Sillinger are on my wish list.
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
That's an entirely different scenario, yes. If he wants to leave, he can leave. I don't see why he'd want to. Is it boring? A little bit. You know who else coached boring hockey? AV.
At least under Tocchet we look like somewhat of a serious NHL team. Can't say the same for the coaches we've had in between.
TruGr1t
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It's entirely his choice, we'll see what happens. There's basically zero chance he's here next year without an extension in the summer.
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
i mean the premise of them being a stop gap solution is that they are signed to a contract that makes them a stop gap. Nobody is arguing we should go out and give these guys a long term contract. 2-3 year term for those guys are fine and if they won't take that then you look for somebody else.
theguardianII
Registered User
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Coaches had before? Only Bruce had NHL experience and he had that massive coach bump and got Pettesson back to his best ever season.
The last ten years have been Wee Willy, a career AHL coach, the Green, a career AHL coach, those two ate up a good 7 years while learning.
Why would Tocchet want to go? Prestige, ego. Boston, Philly, Penquins are all multiple cup winners and in the heart of the eastern media. His house is also in Pittsburgh.
Recap of the Frank Seravalli interview.
Tocchet
- If it were up to the Canucks, they’d love to have him signed for the foreseeable future
- Doesn’t think there’s been much negotiating because the focus has been on keeping the team in a playoff spot
- Not clear what type of option is on Tocchet’s contract
- Calls it a top-5 coaching staff in the league
- Has done a better job of holding this team together this season than last season
- There are teams right now that have coaches under contract that would fire their coach in order to hire Tocchet; 6 to 8 teams waiting to see how this plays out
- Jokes that they haven’t heard anything about Peter Laviolette being on the hot seat (implying the Rangers are one of the teams waiting on Tocchet)
- Still haven’t figured out their defence core moving forward
- Haven’t defended well enough, as a team, and until that’s fixed no one will take them seriously as a contender
- Says that given the coverage of the Canucks, it’s strange that more hasn’t been made of the travesty of the Rangers’ season; says something reeks there; had greater expectations than the Canucks
- Rolled over and quit in December
- Questions why more reporting has not been done on why they festered
- Have some contracts that are really going to hamstring them
- Thinks Chris Drury would like to be aggressive in the offseason
- Doesn’t have a sense of his market; it’s a little early to go by contact projections
- There is a limit to what teams are willing to spend on him
- Questions on how much of his production, this season, is replicable
- Someone will pay him but isn’t sure if it will be the Canucks
- Says the photo of the Sabres owner, Terry Pegula, and Kevyn Adams on different sides of the suite was “quite something”
- Doesn’t get the sense that they will fire Adams; believes Adams and Pegula are very tight
- Thinks they will be a real possibility
- Knows of at least one owner who has tasked his GM with going out and getting a player via offer sheet this summer
- Will depend on who’s available and the level of aggression from a team to pull it off
- Last summer opened the eyes of owners and GMs that it is a valid method of acquiring players
TruGr1t
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That's the basis of the entire discussion, you effectively have him under contract for another few months. I'd have to check history, but my gut bet on that is that coaches who have their contract basically run to the end (ie. in Tocchet's situation) rarely return to the same team. Probably the same for GMs.
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
It's a very common tactic to not talk extension with players during the middle of the season. We aren't in those rooms to say for certain, and Seravalli is a hack who I don't trust with a goldfish for more than a few minutes.
It's funny because my reaction is the opposite. I find it's strangely common in the NHL to let coaches contracts pretty much run out then sign extensions. Rod Brind'amour is one recent example that comes to mind.
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
Both former players, as well. Maybe they're superstitious, maybe it's Maybelline I dont f***in know.
I am toxic
. . . even in small doses
It was interesting to hear Toccs talk about Hogs, how Hogs had to ask him to keep it down to one or two things to focus on
Based on all the evidence, my take is Toccs is chock full of hockey/coaching knowledge, and is clearly driven to do his best/have his team do its best, such that there is a trap of over-coaching that is easy to fall into
The upshot of over-coaching is not only that it confuses the players somewhat (and making it appear that the room has been lost when it really hasn't) but that it takes away from properly addressing other team's weaknesses and game-planning against them
I am toxic
. . . even in small doses
deleted because effing gifs won't work
eff you computer code interacting with gif addresses, eff you to hell!
eff you computer code interacting with gif addresses, eff you to hell!
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
I don't recall who said it, but it was said that good coaches change players, great coaches change tactics based on the talent available to them.
Mostly our players half the time look terrified of making mistakes, but Tocchet always comes back around when they show some f***ing promise and fight.
Mostly our players half the time look terrified of making mistakes, but Tocchet always comes back around when they show some f***ing promise and fight.
I think you know this, or so you have seem to in the past... but using this more to jump off from as there seems to be a bit of spam happening in this thread from one poster.
I think Carolina has too many other issues. Yes they could do that... but they are such a cheap franchise, and it now sounds like players don't like being there. they don't want to play in the Carolina system, that is what Both Rantanen and Necas said.
I have just learned to hate so many of these guys... they may have inside information, but most either don't understand hockey (Dhali) or have vendetta's. Then others just play the game and become so click baity.
Glad to have your service so I don't have to listen to a lot of this crap.
Boeser
- Never gave up and is amazing how perception can change in a week
- Only Bure and Linden reached 200 goals, as a Canuck, faster
- Proved, last night, he was a clutch goal scorer last night
- Is best friends with Hughes, is well-liked in the dressing room, and doesn’t want to leave Vancouver
- Will get paid 8m plus on his next contract
- Big issue will be term; thinks there are teams that are afraid to commit 6-7 years
- Figures the Canucks will take more runs at signing him
- That the Canucks made him an offer during the TDL tells Dhaliwal that the Canucks do want to keep him
- Canucks are only looking for a bargain on term; offered him 5y/8m and thinks the Canucks are in the ballpark moneywise
- They do respect Boeser and want him back
- Teams are worried about how his skating and footspeed will age
- Understands why the Canucks are only willing to go 5 and other teams have told Dhaliwal that the Canucks are correct in that evaluation
- Tough call from both sides
- Coaches didn’t have agents 20-30 years ago but do now
- His next contract won’t come cheap; makes 2.7m right now
- If he leaves, Canucks will be on their 4th coach in 4 years
- Contract talks between Suter and the Canucks went cold at the TDL
- Since the TDL, have had loose contract talks with the Canucks
- Could get close to 4m as a UFA
- Canucks need a playmaking 2nd line centre
- Don’t see them going outside their comfort zone to sign Suter the same way they did with Lankinen
- NCAA brackets will be decided this Sunday
- Boston University could play as early as Mar. 27th and if they lose Willander could sign immediately afterwards
- Many NCAA players try to burn a year of their ELCs but history shows that doesn’t actually help and a normal three year development makes the 2nd contract larger
- Need to produce really fast in order to cash in on the 2nd contract
- Willander’s agent, Todd Diamond, will prioritize long-term earning power
- Willander’s father is a skills coach and values development
- Contract may come down to a battle over Schedule A. performance bonuses; Willander will easily exceed Lekkerimaki’s bonuses but is capped at 1m as per the CBA
- Willander may finish the school year since he is an excellent student
- Once Willander’s team is eliminate, things will develop quickly
- Some people say he has a professional hockey body already
- Canucks have some depth in terms of young defenceman
- Thought Tocchet said all the right things earlier
- Canucks have made it clear that they want him back but Tocchet is clearly not ready to commit
- Canucks will need to articulate a vision and sell him on staying
- Has been an exhausting year; lots of things have gone wrong
- Tocchet and Hughes were the two guys most affected by the Miller vs. Pettersson feud; both tried really hard to fix the relationship
- Will need a lot of answers to a lot of questions
- Has all the leverage; will be a bad look if he leaves
- Everyone wants Willander, Lekkerimaki, and a 1st round pick
- Will have to overpay on July 1st
- Wonders if the dressing room needs more leadership and toughness
- Canucks had interest in Brandon Duhaime last season and Tom Wilson has been raving about him; Canucks need more of that
- Hard to believe this won’t be an emotional game for him
- No one thought the relationship with him would end the way it did
- Doesn’t think we will ever know the true reason for his leave of absence or how the situation got so bad with Pettersson
- One million rumours out there and a lot of people believing a whole lot of crap
- Canucks picked Miller over Horvat and then picked Pettersson over Miller
- Was told that Miller is very popular in the Rangers’ dressing room; coaches, players, and management like him
- Canucks are in a better place with him gone
SelltheTeamFrancesco
Registered User
- Aug 11, 2015
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No chance they trade Pinto he is their match up center and Green loves him.
How could you guys forget the most famous one that was debated here for ever... travis freakin Green...
Ernie
Registered User
- Aug 3, 2004
- 12,779
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If it's both a team option and a coach's option extension, how is it even an option? If both sides need to agree, it's not really an option.
Friedman reported it's a team option, and that's almost certainly the case as a coach's option makes very little sense.
The dynamics around it are a bit more complicated. It sounds like the team is communicating that they plan to exercise that option. But why now? The last thing they need is a narrative that he's a lame duck.
Essentially he's under contract for another year. Regardless of how he feels about this season, he's not really in a position to walk away.
Friedman reported it's a team option, and that's almost certainly the case as a coach's option makes very little sense.
The dynamics around it are a bit more complicated. It sounds like the team is communicating that they plan to exercise that option. But why now? The last thing they need is a narrative that he's a lame duck.
Essentially he's under contract for another year. Regardless of how he feels about this season, he's not really in a position to walk away.
i wasn't suggesting carolina will sign those guys i was just using them as an example of the kind of cap space teams will have available. the canucks aren't in some uniquely good cap situation going into the offseason. almost every team has it's best cap situation in a decade
Yup. The teams facing a cap crunch are the odd ones this off-season.
