CanuckleBerry
Benning Survivor
What would it take to pry Jiricek out of Columbus? Would love to have him developing under Gonchar's Foote.
That would also be good but that only gets you so far. The most glaring issue is that he needs to get his Barkov first and that hasn't been possible with the cards he's been dealt despite the tank.Yzerman should have done what Bill Zito did - use open spots on his roster to audition players with upside. Zito found a bunch of core pieces that way: Verhaeghe, Forsling, Bennett, Montour, etc. Instead Yzerman overpaid a host of declining vets - Copp, Compher, Chiarot, Holl, etc. He put a firm ceiling on what was achievable with his team.
Yzerman should have done what Bill Zito did - use open spots on his roster to audition players with upside. Zito found a bunch of core pieces that way: Verhaeghe, Forsling, Bennett, Montour, etc. Instead Yzerman overpaid a host of declining vets - Copp, Compher, Chiarot, Holl, etc. He put a firm ceiling on what was achievable with his team.
They did. They finished with 39 points in 2020 and were dead last by a mile. Then they got completely, unbelievably screwed by the lottery, which is why I said if they got one of Stutzle or Byfield like they deserved then their franchise outlook would be completely different right now.I think they should’ve done what Chicago did and do a f*** it burn it all down tank. Right now they don’t have that elite talent that is needed to actually compete.
I don't think he should be off the hook for using his money terribly just because he doesn't have his Barkov. He's been way too conservative/patient and with bolder moves he probably could've at least turned this roster into a regular playoff team. I look at LA/Winnipeg/Carolina as examples of teams that have gotten decent results despite lacking star talent.That would also be good but that only gets you so far. The most glaring issue is that he needs to get his Barkov first and that hasn't been possible with the cards he's been dealt despite the tank.
People love to say this about Yzerman but never have a specific answer for how they could have done better. He inherited a bunch of bad contracts and busts when he took over in 2019, and there are no elite forwards drafted near Detroits picks that they missed. They got screwed by the lottery in their tank years and did the best with what they ended up with. If they get one of Byfield or Stutzle like they should have in 2020 their franchise outlook is tremendously different right now.
Up until 2023. His single biggest mistake in the rebuild was ending the tank right before the 2023 season and a draft class packed with elite talent. He desperately needed to tank one more year and pull one of the four 1C's at the top of the draft but he didn't. But all of the criticism is that Detroit should be better now, not that they should have tanked longer, and that they should have franchise talent by now as if that's the GM's fault when there isn't any that was picked anywhere near their draft slots.
What would it take to pry Jiricek out of Columbus? Would love to have him developing under Gonchar's Foote.
What would it take to pry Jiricek out of Columbus? Would love to have him developing under Gonchar's Foote.
Eichel was moved a year and a half after Yzerman took over a completely barren system. They had nothing to trade for him and weren't even close to done their rebuild and were in no position to use him effectively.That and make moves for actual impact players - they should have been big players for guys like Tkachuk, Eichel, etc. If you don't draft star talent, you've gotta trade for it.
Instead they just bloated their roster with a whole host of overpaid middling 30 year old UFAs and condemned themselves to mediocrity.
That's the criticism by most. I don't agree, I think the issue has been not sucking for longer instead. Never exit a rebuild without a 1C and especially not with an insane draft coming the very next year.I don't think he should be off the hook for using his money terribly just because he doesn't have his Barkov. He's been way too conservative/patient and with bolder moves he probably could've at least turned this roster into a regular playoff team.
Every 1st round pick we can project so far looks like a success. There are no elite forwards anywhere near where he picked. I guess you're saying the drafting outside the first round is disappointing? How much of drafting outside the first round is on the GM who took over in 2019?Like I said, I have no problem with the teardown or accumulation of assets. The exiting of the rebuild has not gone well and for two straight years they spent a lot in free agency without anything to show for it. None of the moves will cripple the franchise but his stated goal was to be a playoff team. He's also not added anyone to the team through drafting and developing. Obviously Raymond and Seider are huge, although Seider's development has stalled a bit, and Edvinsson should step into the line-up this year. The rest of the prospect pool is pretty disappointing. Soderblom is big, Johansson is a 23 year old average-sized defenceman, Wallinder had a rough first year in the AHL, and Kasper's upside isn't that high. Cossa took a step forward but until he breaks through, that's a team playing in the shallow goaltender pool.
This is why he's paying for free agents. The "Yzerplan" was to build through the draft and support them veteran UFAs. Unless there's a big development jump for a lot of those guys, it hasn't amounted to anything.
That would also be good but that only gets you so far. The most glaring issue is that he needs to get his Barkov first and that hasn't been possible with the cards he's been dealt despite the tank.
Expecting that with Eichel isn't realistic. That was a year and a half after he took over a completely barren farm and team, was nowhere near done the rebuild, and wouldn't have been able to use him effectively.As MS mentioned earlier, if Yzerman had played his cards right, he would have been in the mix when guys like Tkachuk and Eichel demanded trades.
Yzerman should have done what Bill Zito did - use open spots on his roster to audition players with upside. Zito found a bunch of core pieces that way: Verhaeghe, Forsling, Bennett, Montour, etc. Instead Yzerman overpaid a host of declining vets - Copp, Compher, Chiarot, Holl, etc. He put a firm ceiling on what was achievable with his team.
Anyone can criticize his UFA contracts. I do too. Although the concerns are massively exaggerated, the UFA's aren't blocking any youth and unlike Benning won't be a liability for any realistic timeline where they're contending.Any argument for Yzerman is completely invalidated by the Compher, Copp, Chiarot contracts. Woof. Benning-esque.
he did tho? they cycled through a ton of young players on their second stops. they just didn't work out. sometimes that's the way it goes. if everyone could just sign a verhaeghe from some other teams ahl team they would
Zito is the best GM in the league and started with a 1C, 1D, 1G.I wouldn't say he cycled through a ton - he had a handful, and he didn't cycle off the failures fast enough (Fabbri being the most notable example).
In contrast, Zito went through the following list in a little over 1 season: Alex Wennberg, Carter Verhaeghe. Anthony Duclair, Mason Marchment. Nikita Gusev. Markus Nuutivara, Lucas Carlsson, Chase Priskie, Eeto Luostarinen, Vinnie Hinostroza, Sam Bennett, Brandon Montour, Gustav Forsling...
...and obviously not everyone worked out. But when you have a volume approach, not everyone needs to.
Expecting that with Eichel isn't realistic. That was a year and a half after he took over a completely barren farm and team, was nowhere near done the rebuild, and wouldn't have been able to use him effectively.
Tkachuk is one single transaction that every team in the league missed out on and he's not a young 1C or a rebuild ending player. It's also unrealistic to expect that Tkachuk would have accepted a sign and trade to a deep in the rebuild Detroit.
Zito is the best GM in the league and started with a 1C, 1D, 1G.
If your criticism is that Yzerman is not the #1 GM in the league, I agree.
With that logic, year 1 fubar of our current management completely invalidates their 2nd year success.Any argument for Yzerman is completely invalidated by the Compher, Copp, Chiarot contracts. Woof. Benning-esque.
Eichel was moved a year and a half after Yzerman took over a completely barren system. They had nothing to trade for him and weren't even close to done their rebuild and were in no position to use him effectively.
Every team in the league should have been in on Tkachuk but that's one single trade and he's not a 1C or a rebuild ending player. You can apply that criticism to every team that didn't get him.
And that team isn't condemned to anything. This isn't a SJS situation with 8 year overpaid deals to a half dozen old crappy players. Hardly anyone on the roster has significant term. The fundamental problem with that team is they don't have a young 1C and they've left the rebuild, every other issue is insignificant.
That's the criticism by most. I don't agree, I think the issue has been not sucking for longer instead. Never exit a rebuild without a 1C and especially not with an insane draft coming the very next year.
Every 1st round pick we can project so far looks like a success. There are no elite forwards anywhere near where he picked. I guess you're saying the drafting outside the first round is disappointing? How much of drafting outside the first round is on the GM who took over in 2019?
If we are paying that, I want more than Ehlers back.
Really? You think Pod and a late 1st is an unfair price for Ehlers? What am I missing?If we are paying that, I want more than Ehlers back.
You think a year and a half of a scorched earth rebuild is enough time to sell a huge amount of futures and exit the scorched earth rebuild?Tkachuk had a 6 team trade list including franchises like St. Louis and Nasshville. I could easily see a more promising Red Wings roster appealing to him. I think you're really reaching for excuses - a year and a half is plenty of time for an aggressive rebuilt to harvest assets. Yzerman went through two full offseasons and drafts before Eichel hit the market.
Ekblad was a 1D at the time and a big part of their early success. Bob sucked at the time and was the worst contract in the league and is a huge part of why Zito's turnaround was so risky to attempt in the first place but ultimately was a key piece in winning the cup.No, Zito added Forsling, his #1 defenseman. And if your argument that a $10M Bobrovsky any team would be desparate to dump is some kind of amazing asset he was lucky to inherit ... what a f***ing joke.
It wasn't "a few months". It was an entire season and I don't know why that's worth exaggerating, he was traded November 4 2021.A few months after Eichel was traded he was handing out bloated contracts to Copp and Chiarot.
There have also been other impact players moved. Detroit hasn't found any of them.
In October of 2021 they had Seider, Raymond, Veleno, Rasmussen, Hronek as U25 regulars. By April 2024 ... it was the same group minus Hronek. That franchise has literally gone nowhere for the last couple years as they've accumulated bad contracts.
And as BES said, they've picked all low-upside bets unlike what Florida has done. You aren't going to get good value from giving Copp and Compher $11 million. It was a bet you couldn't win.
You think a year and a half of a scorched earth rebuild is enough time to sell a huge amount of futures and exit the scorched earth rebuild?
Ekblad was a 1D at the time and a big part of their early success. Bob sucked at the time and was the worst contract in the league and is a huge part of why Zito's turnaround was so risky to attempt in the first place but ultimately was a key piece in winning the cup.
My point that I've made several times is that the biggest issue for Detroit is that they exited the rebuild without a young 1C and even though Zito is the best GM in the league who executed a borderline miraculous franchise turnaround, he still had that young 1C in place to do it.