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[nowhereman]

It's a rare bird that can play Tocchet's system AND have the high end scoring ability. Kuzmenko and Sprong were two that could/would never make it under RT. Not saying his system is wrong, just that players that have high end skill and are very good at his system are rare.

I think that's an unfair criticism, since he really hasn't had a lot of high-end offensive talent play under him during his career. MSL had a great year under Tocchet in 2009-10 and Stamkos exploded with a Richard win that same season. In Arizona, he had guys like Galchenyuk, Stepan, Hinostroza, Schmaltz and an aging Phil Kessel. Not exactly a collection of offensive dynamos. Keller took off after Tocchet left but he was also in his early-20s and developing his game at the NHL level.

Hughes, Miller, Boeser, Hronek, Joshua, Suter, etc. have all had career offensive years under him. Pettersson was looking like he might, until the wheels fell off completely (which had nothing to do with coaching). Kuzmenko is probably the most glaring example of failure but that's because he didn't seem to feel like playing any sort of system. This year's fiasco had a lot of factors (dressing room drama, injuries, etc.) that can't be laid solely at the feet of Tocchet.

Looking back at his head coaching efforts, there really isn't a history of great offensive players going off the rails with him or being unable to showcase their talents. The talent really just wasn't there on most of his rosters. But it's a true showing of one's ability to be able to flourish in a system, rather than asking the system to cater to you. That's why I always thought that Crosby was clearly superior to Ovechkin, because the former would sacrifice offense for his team's system while the latter had the system built around him (which was trouble come playoff-time). This team needs players who can contribute in all areas of the ice and there's a reason guys like Kuzmenko and Sprong have been passed around the NHL.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

I was looking through Boesers stats and without his resurgence last year he had kind of settled down and started to regress. I think that it's clear he is a 20-30 goal 50-60 point winger, and 60% of his production will be at even strength and 40% on the powerplay. That doesn't drive play and is above average defensively. What would you pay that player without attaching Boesers name to the conversation?

 

[krutovsdonut]

Zibanejad is ...

what's your victor, vector?

 

[Hughes Clues]

I was looking through Boesers stats and without his resurgence last year he had kind of settled down and started to regress. I think that it's clear he is a 20-30 goal 50-60 point winger, and 60% of his production will be at even strength and 40% on the powerplay. That doesn't drive play and is above average defensively. What would you pay that player without attaching Boesers name to the conversation?

6m

You literally just described debrusk. Who makes less and people aren't necessarily geeked about his play.

 

[iceburg]

I think that's an unfair criticism, since he really hasn't had a lot of high-end offensive talent play under him during his career. MSL had a great year under Tocchet in 2009-10 and Stamkos exploded with a Richard win that same season. In Arizona, he had guys like Galchenyuk, Stepan, Hinostroza, Schmaltz and an aging Phil Kessel. Not exactly a collection of offensive dynamos. Keller took off after Tocchet left but he was also in his early-20s and developing his game at the NHL level.

Hughes, Miller, Boeser, Hronek, Joshua, Suter, etc. have all had career offensive years under him. Pettersson was looking like he might, until the wheels fell off completely (which had nothing to do with coaching). Kuzmenko is probably the most glaring example of failure but that's because he didn't seem to feel like playing any sort of system. This year's fiasco had a lot of factors (dressing room drama, injuries, etc.) that can't be laid solely at the feet of Tocchet.

Looking back at his head coaching efforts, there really isn't a history of great offensive players going off the rails with him or being unable to showcase their talents. The talent really just wasn't there on most of his rosters. But it's a true showing of one's ability to be able to flourish in a system, rather than asking the system to cater to you. That's why I always thought that Crosby was clearly superior to Ovechkin, because the former would sacrifice offense for his team's system while the latter had the system built around him (which was trouble come playoff-time). This team needs players who can contribute in all areas of the ice and there's a reason guys like Kuzmenko and Sprong have been passed around the NHL.

It actually wasn't meant to be a criticism of Tocchet. I would definitely put MSL, Stamkos and Crosby in the rare category. You're right, guys like Suter and Joshua had career years but that's not the profile we're talking about, at least not what I was tlaking about. I was talking about players who have great offensive skill but are kind of one dimensional, the assumption being that the elite/rare players won't be available in a trade or hard to get in free agency. I think Marner would do fine under tocchet. I'm not so sure about Ehlers but I'd be willing to take the bet. I just don't see players outside of those rare few that I would take a bet on under Tocchet. Again, not being critical of his system. Just that we can't expect every offensively skill player to come in and succeed offensively like they might under a different system.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

6m

You literally just described debrusk. Who makes less and people aren't necessarily geeked about his play.

6x6 is more than fair. Boeser wants to be greedy he can leave.

 

[Attack Vector]

Just to add, I would say Hoglander is negative value at this stage in his career, anyone wanting him will either be a cap dump to make salaries work for both sides or a rebuilding team needing a warm body and betting on his upside in the long run.

I don't even think Hoglander could fetch a third round draft pick since he's an undersized winger that can put up 30-35 points.

 

[Goatlender]

Here’s another copium proposal - Dawson Mercer as our 2C.

According to Google, NJ has $9.79 in cap space this summer. They have a lot of contracts up, particularly Luke Hughes (RFA), Allen, Dumoulin, Glass, etc.

Mercer makes $4 mill for the next two seasons. I’m not saying he’s available, but he does play behind Hughes and Hischier, so who knows.

New Jersey is looking to compete so it would not likely involve futures. They appear to need goaltending with Allen potentially hitting free agency this summer and Markstrom only signed for one more year and will be 36 next year and has gotten injured recently.

I’m curious if a deal around Demko(+?) for Mercer(+?) makes sense here?

 

[Coffee]

Here’s another copium proposal - Dawson Mercer as our 2C.

According to Google, NJ has $9.79 in cap space this summer. They have a lot of contracts up, particularly Luke Hughes (RFA), Allen, Dumoulin, Glass, etc.

Mercer makes $4 mill for the next two seasons. I’m not saying he’s available, but he does play behind Hughes and Hischier, so who knows.

New Jersey is looking to compete so it would not likely involve futures. They appear to need goaltending with Allen potentially hitting free agency this summer and Markstrom only signed for one more year and will be 36 next year and has gotten injured recently.

I’m curious if a deal around Demko(+?) for Mercer(+?) makes sense here?

what does goat in the water mean

 

[Goatlender]

what does goat in the water mean

It is a reference to one of the best comedy shows

 

[Bleach Clean]

Here’s another copium proposal - Dawson Mercer as our 2C.

According to Google, NJ has $9.79 in cap space this summer. They have a lot of contracts up, particularly Luke Hughes (RFA), Allen, Dumoulin, Glass, etc.

Mercer makes $4 mill for the next two seasons. I’m not saying he’s available, but he does play behind Hughes and Hischier, so who knows.

New Jersey is looking to compete so it would not likely involve futures. They appear to need goaltending with Allen potentially hitting free agency this summer and Markstrom only signed for one more year and will be 36 next year and has gotten injured recently.

I’m curious if a deal around Demko(+?) for Mercer(+?) makes sense here?

Mercer should be a target, yes, but not at the cost of Demko imo.

If the goal is to compete right now, Demko helps the Canucks do this far better than most realistic solutions.

Now Lankinen on the other hand...

 

[Goatlender]

Mercer should be a target, yes, but not at the cost of Demko imo.

If the goal is to compete right now, Demko helps the Canucks do this far better than most realistic solutions.

Now Lankinen on the other hand...

It largely depends on if Demko wants to re-sign here and what management thinks of his long term health outlook and new contract expectations. There’s a lot of potential issues there, and rumours have indicated that Demko has/had been unhappy with Vancouver in the past, so who knows.

The only other trade I see making sense is a 3 way that Van sends futures to.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Hopefully Demko is re-signed to a reasonable deal at the start of next year.

For a centre: I still think they go after Norris should BUF fail again next year. Maybe they can do a Chytil for Norris deal considering both players are often injured and Norris has the much larger contract?

The Canucks have to hoard centres. Re-sign Suter, and sign one of Faksa, Roslovic (more a wing), Dvorak, Geekie, Appleton etc... Play a centre on Pettersson's wing if you have to. It's all about positioning for an in-season trade. Give a centre to get a centre.

 

[Delocatedfan]

Top shelf hockey noted Philly might be interested in Demko if he is available.

I am not familiar with their AHL team but do they have any interesting prospects worth going after? I figure they don't have too much on their NHL that would be available

 

[Vector]

Top shelf hockey noted Philly might be interested in Demko if he is available.

I am not familiar with their AHL team but do they have any interesting prospects worth going after? I figure they don't have too much on their NHL that would be available

I think a lot of teams would be interested in Demko and probably see his contract status as a positive rather than a negative.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

It is a reference to one of the best comedy shows

The GOAT.

 

[Goatlender]

Top shelf hockey noted Philly might be interested in Demko if he is available.

I am not familiar with their AHL team but do they have any interesting prospects worth going after? I figure they don't have too much on their NHL that would be available

Just from reviewing their draft history, I would think players like Brink, Foerster, and Luchanko since they’re young forwards with decent potential. Bonk or York if they want a dman.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I really get this feeling they say "f*** it" and trade Pettersson and Demko if they strike out on UFA's and trades.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I really get this feeling they say "f*** it" and trade Pettersson and Demko if they strike out on UFA's and trades.

I can't see Pettersson moved at this point because there's zero chance we'd get back anything worthwhile. Keep in mind, Carolina circled back on trying to acquire him, but this time weren't offering Necas and insisted we take Kotkaniemi.

Any Pettersson trade right now is teams trying to buy low on a reclamation project.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Sign Marner to 13x7, trade Garland, 1st and Mancini for Peterka.

If only it was this easy.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I wonder if Boston would entertain something like Chytil, Garland, Kudryavtsev, and a 2nd or 3rd for Geekie and Zacha. Or our 1st straight up (id be hesistant though).

 

[Diablo2020]

I really get this feeling they say "f*** it" and trade Pettersson and Demko if they strike out on UFA's and trades.

No it'll continue the slow burn of dismantling a core instead.

2022 Bo Horvat OUT
2022 Filip Hronek IN
2024 JT Miller OUT
2024 Marcus Pettersson IN
2025 Brock Boeser OUT
2025 New Boeser IN (2015 1st traded maybe?)
-
2026 Thatcher Demko OUT
2026 New Core member IN (2016 1st traded maybe?)
2027 Elias Pettersson OUT
2027 EP40 trade assets IN
2028 Quinn Hughes OUT

"If I told you what I was offered for Demko", yada yada yada.

 

[Diablo2020]

I wonder if Boston would entertain something like Chytil, Garland, Kudryavtsev, and a 2nd or 3rd for Geekie and Zacha. Or our 1st straight up (id be hesistant though).

The time to get Geekie was when others on this board were pounding that drum.

69-9-19-28

Or even last year after an emerging season.

76-17-22-39

Not this year when Boston is deprived of talent and he popped off for 30 goals.

77-33-24-57

Plus we shouldnt be trading Garland this offseason. We dont necessarily need his capspace, he shoots right (garly, sherwood, lekk, karlsson) and we have multiple open roster spots to fill before needing to replace Garland as well.

We also need to find a way to fit Chytil in and just count him as found money. Im talking 5th center or on IR to start. Then if he's healthy he is the injury replacement until he is injured again himself. Cause his value is nada and we CANT pay to dump yet another player.

- Replace Boeser
- Bump Chytil to 14th FWD
- Replace Suter
- Bump Lekkerimaki to AHL

We need those 4 things. Two RWs and two C's.

 

[ephmrl]

I wonder if Boston would entertain something like Chytil, Garland, Kudryavtsev, and a 2nd or 3rd for Geekie and Zacha. Or our 1st straight up (id be hesistant though).

I'd trade the 1st + Kudryavtsev for Zacha. He's a fantastic two-way center and already has chemistry with DeBrusk.

 

[HockeyWooot]

With the Rantanen deal I wonder if Marchment could be had at the draft for a decent price due to cap crunch?

Pending UFA next year, they need room for Robertson’s extension.