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Ernie said:
Bo was asking for too much in the summer.
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I'm not sure about this. IIRC, they tried to offer him the RNH deal. ($5.13, AAV/8 years)

He was in the $7m range then. In season, he took that AAV off the table.

Edit:

canucksarmy.com

Report: Canucks used Nugent-Hopkins contract as a comparable in Bo Horvat negotiations

<em>Daily Faceoff </em>hockey insider Frank Seravalli popped onto Spor...
canucksarmy.com canucksarmy.com

Frank Seravalli: “There’s a chance, maybe, that [the Horvat contract AAV] starts with a 6, but it’d have to be a high 6. I tend to agree with you, on the open market, that it’s a number that begins with a 7, probably all day long given the complete nature of Bo’s game. But that’s not where the Canucks started, and I mentioned with you guys a few weeks ago that the number the Canucks originally threw at the Horvat camp — and I don’t know how much has changed since or what has changed — was a number that began with a 5. And I think the comparison that they made, contract-wise, was Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and the deal that he signed with the Edmonton Oilers: 8 times 5.125 for a total of $41 million.”
 
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Ernie said:
Yep this is a big shadow on the horizon. But again, the shared revenues will be in USD so as that percentage increases it helps Canadian teams. Winnipeg is going to be in tight for sure though.
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This might propel Winnipeg into Pettersson trade talks or other long termed players. If they traded for Pettersson and traded Ehlers away it is only a 5 to 6 mil increase.
 
Bleach Clean said:
I'm not sure about this. IIRC, they tried to offer him the RNH deal. ($5.13, AAV/8 years)

He was in the $7m range then. In season, he took that AAV off the table.
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He should have come about halfway in between RNH and Couturier, so about $6.5m. He was about a 30g/30a player but was not getting very good results defensively despite his reputation.

The Canucks were at about $6m in their offer, but he wanted to be paid like Miller. A $2m gap is very hard to bridge and he needed to come down significantly in order get the deal done. Then he went on a heater, his asking price went up even higher, and the Canucks rightly felt that his production wasn't sustainable and they moved him.

Once again, if he wanted to stay, he would have been more reasonable in the summer instead of pushing for top dollar.
 
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Reverend Mayhem said:
More or less. Look, this season I don't want to trade Miller or Pettersson. But it's coming. The breadcrumbs are all there and the gun may as well have smoke coming out of it already. And I'm probably going to hate whatever the trade is. I'm prepared for that.

This team is viable, but the situation is untenable to them. Which is about where I see it. I bet Paul McCartney was real pissed at himself to hear "All Things Must Pass" and realized he should have used George's songs more. Whoever gets traded will have their All Things Must Pass moment, where we look like the biggest idiots on the face of the planet. That's my prediction. But if we did it now, I think we'd get a bump at least.
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If they need to be dealt then IMO do a rebuild but not all the vets at once.
Myers would be kept.
Hronek is under contract
Hughes another year then seriously consider a trade while he has one more year left as added value.
Garland could be around for another season

Deal BB, EP and JTM for futures then think about the TDL for some of the other vets.

A rebuild could be done in 2 years as far as getting the players, drafted and through trades.

I don't think Tocchet is the coach for younger players, his reputation isn't great in dealing with young players.
Quennville might be better by far.
 
aregora said:
Islanders collecting all of the Walmart offensive defencemen who can't play defence.
  • Tony DeAngelo - January 24
  • Scott Perunovich - January 27
  • Adam Boqvist - January 31
  • ...Maybe we can interest them in Brannstrom.
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it's an interesting strategy

long gone are the days where the tyson barries and marc-andre bergerons were highly valued guys with regular rotation minutes. and teams are now smarter about guys like montour and sanderson who put up big powerplay numbers but aren't offensive drivers.

the hardest role to fill in the nhl is the chris tanev style defensive defenseman that isn't an immobile fridge. it's hard to be able to fit that kind of defenseman if you're paying noah dobson $10m, especially if you think he might only generate offense when playing powerplay/minutes with the top line.

is there a play to sell high on dobson based on 70 points last year, and replace 60-75% of his offensive production with one of the guys above at 15-20% of the cap hit? i don't watch the isles to judge what's up with dobson's numbers this year, or track him enough to know if it's even remotely possible that they move him. it does feel curious that they're loading up on these types though
 
current canucks management have consistently missed the boat on extending veteran players when they were cheaper. horvat, hronek, lindholm, zadorov, and now boeser have all improved their bargaining positions relative to when they might have been signed.

i assume it's a philosophical issue. lots of teams get killed extending guys within their own roster.
 
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So with Columbus it doesn't look like Fantilli or Mateychuk would be on the table in a EP trade but Johnson and Sillinger might be (as mentioned Johnson has been playing the wing).

What would be the return from Columbus that is acceptable in a EP trade assuming no Fantilli or Mateychuk?

For reference Cam Robinson mentioned "high-end young NHLer, likely another roster player, picks and/or a serious prospect"

Another name I'll throw out there is Lindstrom who was drafted 4th overall last year but has a major injury to recover from (could be part of the serious prospect portion).
 
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krutovsdonut said:
current canucks management have consistently missed the boat on extending veteran players when they were cheaper. horvat, hronek, lindholm, zadorov, and now boeser have all improved their bargaining positions relative to when they might have been signed.

i assume it's a philosophical issue. lots of teams get killed extending guys within their own roster.
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It would have been great to stockpile contracts but they also had to deal with the cap as it was.

Boeser was coming off a very disappointing performance after his previous contract and it would have been crazy to sign him long term. Zadorov simply decided he didn't want to take the money here. Lindholm was asking too much for what he is. Hronek wasn't signed for a premium over what he would have gotten if they'd signed him right after trading for him. It just wasn't possible to keep both Horvat and Miller under the cap.
 
Ernie said:
He should have come about halfway in between RNH and Couturier, so about $6.5m. He was about a 30g/30a player but was not getting very good results defensively despite his reputation.

The Canucks were at about $6m in their offer, but he wanted to be paid like Miller. A $2m gap is very hard to bridge and he needed to come down significantly in order get the deal done. Then he went on a heater, his asking price went up even higher, and the Canucks rightly felt that his production wasn't sustainable and they moved him.

Once again, if he wanted to stay, he would have been more reasonable in the summer instead of pushing for top dollar.
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Wanting to stay doesn't mean taking unfair deals. For instance, Boeser wants to stay, but he can't work with a 3-4 year max term.

I posted the Seravalli quote in my post edit:

“There’s a chance, maybe, that [the Horvat contract AAV] starts with a 6, but it’d have to be a high 6. I tend to agree with you, on the open market, that it’s a number that begins with a 7, probably all day long given the complete nature of Bo’s game. But that’s not where the Canucks started, and I mentioned with you guys a few weeks ago that the number the Canucks originally threw at the Horvat camp — and I don’t know how much has changed since or what has changed — was a number that began with a 5. And I think the comparison that they made, contract-wise, was Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and the deal that he signed with the Edmonton Oilers: 8 times 5.125 for a total of $41 million.”

JR/Allvin needed to start at $6m+ AAV in their offer if they wanted to close it in the summer. They did not. But even if they started poorly, they could have salvaged it by adapting quickly. They refused. He goes on a heater and the parameters change further. They should not have taken the risk that he would perform that well in the first place.
 
Was listening to Futa this morning and they were talking about how the increase in Cap will hurt smaller market Canadian teams.

Much like years ago, the USD/CAD exchange is murderous when your revenue is in CAD and expenses are in USD.

And if you want to be competitive (to get more revenue) you have to spend and likely always close to or at the Cap.

Going to be very interesting.
 
Bleach Clean said:
Wanting to stay doesn't mean taking unfair deals. For instance, Boeser wants to stay, but he can't work with a 3-4 year max term.

I posted the Seravalli quote in my post edit:

“There’s a chance, maybe, that [the Horvat contract AAV] starts with a 6, but it’d have to be a high 6. I tend to agree with you, on the open market, that it’s a number that begins with a 7, probably all day long given the complete nature of Bo’s game. But that’s not where the Canucks started, and I mentioned with you guys a few weeks ago that the number the Canucks originally threw at the Horvat camp — and I don’t know how much has changed since or what has changed — was a number that began with a 5. And I think the comparison that they made, contract-wise, was Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and the deal that he signed with the Edmonton Oilers: 8 times 5.125 for a total of $41 million.”

JR/Allvin needed to start at $6m+ AAV in their offer if they wanted to close it in the summer. They did not. But even if they started poorly, they could have salvaged it by adapting quickly. They refused. He goes on a heater and the parameters change further. They should not have taken the risk that he would perform that well in the first place.
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And there's the problem. Bo's reputation was as a defensively sound forward but the opposite was true. The Canucks might have lowballed him as RNH was a pretty sweetheart contract for the Oilers. $7m should have been out of the question but by all accounts as soon as Miller signed for $8m, that's the only number that Horvat would have signed for going into the season.

At this time $8.5m for a 30 goal forward would be the going rate, but two seasons ago it was not remotely reasonable.
 
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Vector said:


At one point, he was the cream of the European free agent crop.
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generational name

krutovsdonut said:
current canucks management have consistently missed the boat on extending veteran players when they were cheaper. horvat, hronek, lindholm, zadorov, and now boeser have all improved their bargaining positions relative to when they might have been signed.

i assume it's a philosophical issue. lots of teams get killed extending guys within their own roster.
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philosophically, i agree with them. the first big-ish contract they signed was boeser's current contract and he didn't really rebound by the end of 21-22, so they got term for a relatively low AAV (with benning constraints in mind).

you have to know what you're paying for. horvat's contract is fine now but back then, paying him the same as JTM would've been insane based on production.
 
Maybe they should have kept this guy. Keep the room light. That is pretty much when Petey started to struggle offensively.

 
Pettersson I have a feeling beside Marchenko and Werenski on the back end is scoring 90-100 points yearly. Especially if KJ isn’t coming back as part of the trade and when Mateychuk emerges.

I look at CBJ’s roster and they’re pretty much better than ours and they will soon be a perennial top 5 team. Getting Pettersson would be monumentally huge.
 
idk, i would doubly not sign boeser now

he could probably get $10m from someone else - trade him for assets with more control. there are lots of wingers out there.

if everyone is available from pittsburgh, would love rakell as a replacement. $5m for three more years after this. at 31, guessing he can't cost that much.
 
Just A Bit Outside said:
Was listening to Futa this morning and they were talking about how the increase in Cap will hurt smaller market Canadian teams.

Much like years ago, the USD/CAD exchange is murderous when your revenue is in CAD and expenses are in USD.

And if you want to be competitive (to get more revenue) you have to spend and likely always close to or at the Cap.

Going to be very interesting.
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Not to get overly political, but depending on the outcome of the next Canadian Federal election.....from an FX perspective, the next ten years could be materially different than the last 10.
 
Jerry the great said:
Not to get overly political, but depending on the outcome of the next Canadian Federal election.....from an FX perspective, the next ten years could be materially different than the last 10.
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All that stuff is already priced in.. which is why the CAD is low.
 
CBJ was also reportedly interested in Boeser right? Imagine what a Pettersson + Boeser trade would look like.
 
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