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[ManVanFan]

I would never try to deny the fact that Miller seems like he can be a difficult person to manage or work with...you can tell he's an ultra intense guy to the point of obsessive and that can't always be easy to be around, but I have a problem with a lot of this bully/victim talk with no actual evidence of bullying other than Miller being "hard" on Petey...I don't know what that means? I certainly wouldn't jump to classifying him as a bully without some kind of solid evidence that it was actually bullying. It seems like there are a few people around here who have taken the position that Miller is 100% categorically a bully based on simply conjecture and his abrasive personality, and if you don't see it that way, you are victim blaming EP.

IMO...Miller doesn't have to be a bully and EP doesn't need to be a victim in this, they could just be two people who absolutely hate the other's personality and they don't get along.

If you went to work everyday and somebody told you that you sucked. How long before do you think you did suck or you would bark back and tell the person to f*** off and then you feel good, for that person to just call you a baby and laugh at you and continue to tell you that you suck everyday.

 

[nowhereman]

This thread certainly has devolved into a shitshow. Pettersson is a victim? JT Miller is a sociopath who is terrorizing the Canucks' lockeroom?

None of you know anything about what is going on behind closed doors. Just relax and don't jump to wild conclusions.

 

[Ernie]

I wish I had this much leeway if I underperformed at work. Amazing.

Unless you're a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist, I don't think you know what it's like to perform at this level. These guys have dedicated their entire lives to this sport and have always dominated at every level they've played on the way up.

OTOH you spend your time posting on message boards when you're supposed to be working, just like the rest of us.

 

[Wisp]

Miller put up 103 points and despite everything is still relatively productive this season. He's earned a reset if that's what he needed.

Miller is relatively productive this season because Tocchet gives him Primo Hughes minutes. It's blunting the point starvation all the other forwards are feeling, he still went double digit games without a goal like the rest of them. Pettersson doesn't get those choice Hughes deployments because there's confidence his defensive game won't implode away from the team's best defender.

I have to keep reminding myself that 'Non-Hughes minutes' are the team's true problem, not Miller/Pettersson drama.

 

[TruGr1t]

 

[Coach Parker]

If we all just went on what we saw in the playoffs and who became heroes and who hasn't stepped up, we could have good conversations. If we stuck to what we see on the ice as fans it's pretty clear who steps up when it matters most and who hasn't found that gear yet.

How long can the franchise wait with Hughes' contract looming?

I felt they put it best on 650 last night;

If you think you can win in the next 3 years with Hughes you move Pettersson.
if you think you are more than 3 years away, you move Miller.

Stick to that and make the move before it drives an even bigger divide in the room, team and fan base.

 

[Hodgy]

Posters are, I think, wrongfully referencing the LOA as a response or punishment to Miller’s treatment of Pettersson. I know we are all speculating, but I think the LOA was only tangentially related to the Miller and Petey relationship. It seems to me that coaching told Miller to basically stay in his lane and to stop trying to coach Petey, and they probably told him this a number of times, and then Miller ignored this instruction in the last game before the LOA, and he was benched as a result. It’s then kind of unknown whether blew up at Tochett for the benching, which necessitated the LOA, or perhaps the LOA was just further punishment for his constant failure to follow their instruction to not try to coach Petey.

That’s all just speculation though.

 

[Canucker]

If you went to work everyday and somebody told you that you sucked. How long before do you think you did suck or you would bark back and tell the person to f*** off and then you feel good, for that person to just call you a baby and laugh at you and continue to tell you that you suck everyday.

That's a great projection that has no evidentiary basis in reality.

 

[TruGr1t]

Posters are, I think, wrongfully referencing the LOA as a response or punishment to Miller’s treatment of Pettersson. I know we are all speculating, but I think the LOA was only tangentially related to the Miller and Petey relationship. It seems to me that coaching told Miller to basically stay in his lane and to stop trying to coach Petey, and they probably told him this a number of times, and then Miller ignored this instruction in the last game before the LOA, and he was benched as a result. It’s then kind of unknown whether blew up at Tochett for the benching, which necessitated the LOA, or perhaps the LOA was just further punishment for his constant failure to follow their instruction to not try to coach Petey.

That’s all just speculation though.

This has been heavily hinted but not confirmed ... that the time away was following a blow-up with Tocchet over the benching.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

 

[Wisp]

This thread certainly has devolved into a shitshow. Pettersson is a victim? JT Miller is a sociopath who is terrorizing the Canucks' lockeroom?

None of you know anything about what is going on behind closed doors. Just relax and don't jump to wild conclusions.

It's not NOTHING based on Brad Richardson's comments, but yes, we are getting a bit out of control here. Mostly when I talked about "victim" I was pushing back on the toxic notion that a person is at fault for reacting badly to an asshole being an asshole and that spun in to far less hypothetical assumptions that this WAS the dynamic at play.

 

[Ernie]

Miller is relatively productive this season because Tocchet gives him Primo Hughes minutes. It's blunting the point starvation all the other forwards are feeling, he still went double digit games without a goal like the rest of them. Pettersson doesn't get those choice Hughes deployments because there's confidence his defensive game won't implode away from the team's best defender.

I have to keep reminding myself that 'Non-Hughes minutes' are the team's true problem, not Miller/Pettersson drama.

That was certainly true earlier in the season, but Pettersson got a bunch of Hughes minutes when Miller was away, and then Miller got a bunch of non-Hughes minutes when Hughes was injured. Pettersson has actually played more with Hughes than Miller has now.

Miller still gets more favourable zone starts, but not really enough to move the needle, perhaps enough for a handful of points.

If I had to keep one player based solely on their on-ice contributions this season, I'd certainly pick Miller. Pettersson's current cold streak has gone on way too long.

 

[Canucker]

Based on the chatter around Miller and his public/visible blowups on the ice and on the bench throughout his career, I think it's pretty safe to assume Miller is a generally bad teammate, if not a bully.

Again, we also know Miller's conduct caused the club to send him home for a month/10 games. This is something we never see in the NHL. This is an extremely telling signal to me as to the kind of teammate/person he is.

I wouldn't assume that, I'm sure there are a lot of guys on the team who are friendly and enjoy Miller....but I'm sure there are some who don't appreciate his personality or antics...I don't think that makes him a good or bad teammate, it just makes him an individual who some people like and others don't.

 

[Hodgy]

So, now that the frenzy of posts regarding JR's interviews have passed, my thoughts are:

• JR was definitely knitting some ass covers for management, coaching, and ownership. The interviews certainly makes clear to the fans who and what the problem is, and assuming the interviews don't negatively impact our trading position or the team (which I don't think they do) then I am generally fine with them. Pettersson and Miller have probably been warned and been worked with for years on this, and at some point, one or both of them need to take responsibility for not being able to be functioning adults. With that said, I think ass cover knitting went a bit too far in that JR seemingly took no ownership of where the team is, and that's not reasonable and lacks accountability;
• As noted in my first bullet, I don't think these interviews hurt our trade leverage. I think all the other teams knew of the Canucks locker room issues and were probably try to extort the Canucks. I actually like these interviews as JR is basically making it clear to everyone that they know there are big issues, and that these issues need to be fixed. By getting this out in the open it takes away some of the leverage of other teams who probably are hoping for the Canucks to make a quick trade to make this whole uncomfortable situation go away;
• It puts pressure on Miller and Pettersson to try one last time to act like adults and resolve this. And perhaps it will work; and
• If Miller and Pettersson can't act like adults and resolve this, it also just puts negative pressure on them and makes them feel more uncomfortable in this situation, and this would likely lead Miller (and Pettersson, to the extent he has trade protection right now) to be more open to expanding the teams he is willing to be traded to.

 

[ManVanFan]

That's a great projection that has no evidentiary basis in reality.

So you are saying that Miller has been praising Petey instead?

 

[Canucker]

So you are saying that Miller has been praising Petey instead?

Is that what you think I said?

 

[I am toxic]

Holy shit, are people actually suggesting that calling out a teammate for their play is tantamount to bullying?

No. That is called making a straw man argument. It is intellectually dishonest, and - like victim blaming - there was no surprise it would show up here.

 

[Coach Parker]

Is it safe to say that whichever guy is moved was also out of favour with Hughes if he did indeed have a say?

Seems to me that the Canucks need to do everything possible to sell him on the current and future being bright and making him want to sign long-term when he can.

Give him the Norris already.

 

[604]

If management knew of these big issues between Pettersson and Miller, why did they trade Horvat over Miller? We could have Pettersson Horvat down the middle right now.

Because Miller has outperformed Horvat in every facet of the game?

At some point in-ice matters.

Miller is still a PPG centre who takes hard matchups and all key faceoffs.

If Petey could go back to being a 80-100 point offensive centre, I think most of this teams issues would be resolved and we’d sail into the playoffs with an additional solid 3D that we acquired at the deadline.

The question is, what does it take increase Perry’s scoring rate by 50% of what it’s been the last 20 games or so. Him shooting more will likely help. If Petey goes back to 100 pt Petey, our team has no issues it can’t easily solve. If Petey stays 60 point Petey, we are f***ed.

 

[I am toxic]

You have no idea, and you're getting darn close to slandering JT Miller.

Everything Is on public record. If I wanted I could get more evidence from Canucks coaching staff. But I make it a point never to ask them about work. And when they inadvertently say stuff, I never repeat it.

I am not close to libel. You have no idea what slanders I make. Or do you hang out with me? I dont think I know you.

 

[Jerry the great]

If you went to work everyday and somebody told you that you sucked. How long before do you think you did suck or you would bark back and tell the person to f*** off and then you feel good, for that person to just call you a baby and laugh at you and continue to tell you that you suck everyday.

Is that what you believe is actually happening?

 

[xtr3m]

I've had it enough with the fake news hockey media.

 

[TruGr1t]

Is it safe to say that whichever guy is moved was also out of favour with Hughes if he did indeed have a say?

Seems to me that the Canucks need to do everything possible to sell him on the current and future being bright and making him want to sign long-term when he can.

Give him the Norris already.

Again, this is a bit sensational. People are talking like there's a Westside Story dance-off between Miller and Pettersson's cliques in the dressing room. It's probably more likely a subdued situation where most of the other guys get along with both players, and it's just awkward when they're stuck in the same room together. They probably just want it resolved one way or another, so they can play hockey.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

The fact there is a discussion about how the Canucks could/should have held onto Horvat and traded JT is a complete reflection of how much a shit show this has become.

Hell. Lets go back further.

Should have never traded for JT in the first place since two other teams were willing to let him go.

Good Lord.

I hope this ends soon but I don't see it happening.

 

[Coach Parker]

Again, this is a bit sensational. People are talking like there's a Westside Story dance-off between Miller and Pettersson's cliques in the dressing room. It's probably more likely a subdued situation where most of the other guys get along with both players, and it's just awkward when they're stuck in the same room together. They probably just want it resolved one way or another, so they can play hockey.

Fair. Do you think Hughes has a say? I'm not certain but now I'm starting to think he should if they're trying to keep him happy and wanting to re-sign here.