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[DFAC]

I wish I had this much leeway if I underperformed at work. Amazing.

 

[Canucker]

When victim blaming is called out and fails, falsely claiming there is no evidence of a victim is the next step in the hockey culture playbook.

It's pretty sad really.

Where is the evidence of a victim here? Why is it wrong to just classify this as a working relationship that just went south? Nope, it needs to have an ugly and possibly criminal angle based on conjecture that nobody can provide any actual evidence to.

 

[bossram]

Where is the evidence of a victim here? Why is it wrong to just classify this as a working relationship that just went south? Nope, it needs to have an ugly and possibly criminal angle based on conjecture that nobody can provide any actual evidence to.

They sent Miller home for a month because of some kind of incident or his conduct became egregious enough.

This is completely hypothetical, because you, nor I, has any idea. I just find it hard to believe this monster has been terrorizing the dressing room for X years and no one has filed a complaint, there has been no mediation, there has been nothing that would lead you to believe the situation is that sensational. In all likelihood, this is a lot more boring than people think. This has also included two entire front offices, and four vastly different coaching staffs. I also find it hard to believe all these people are complicit in covering up some huge degree of misconduct.

This is a hockey organization with some old dinosaur at the helm. They were never doing "mediation" lmao.

In most locker rooms, I doubt constantly riding a guy, grinding him down, and generally being an asshole would be considered "misconduct". But is it bullying? Would it cause an unresolvable rift? I'd say the answer to both is yes.

 

[Dirtyclapper]

They sent Miller home for a month because of some kind of incident or his conduct became egregious enough.

I thought they said it was directed towards Tocchet not Pettersson? Maybe I heard wrong but I could have sworn that was reported the other day.

 

[krutovsdonut]

pardon the interruption. a polite personal request as one poster to others.

a lot of people are going to be tempted to project and champion their personal world views onto an information vacuum as to who is at fault for the miller/petey situation. i really don't care which side of the fence you are on these kind of interpersonal issues. please just shut the f*** up. this is two people's lives and you are closer than you think to impacting on them with your bullshit. what happens here spreads to reddit and twitter.

i realize appealing to decency and restraint is not thow the internet works, but it's a particularly toxic look just now so i will give it a shot. if either narrative takes off on canuck twitter it's going to contribute to the real world outcome and it may well be the wrong outcome. you all know that. you also do not know the truth. so, again, just just shut the f*** up. please and thank you.

now please return to your regular shit posting.

 

[Canucker]

They sent Miller home for a month because of some kind of incident or his conduct became egregious enough.

Did they send him home? Is there actual evidence of that? People can believe what they want, I get it, but I haven't seen anything that says that is what actually happened...and it doesn't necessarily mean someone was victimized.

 

[Wisp]

Richardson was here for 14 games and he felt compelled to tell JT he needed to dial it down. Imagine what it's like dealing with that for 4 years. This fanbase is bending over backwards to victim blame and support the aggressor.

In fact, what Richardson suggested would happen if JT didn't stop is probably exactly what happened.

the richardson comments loom large IMO. We're not paying enough attention that but not everyone is good at reading between the lines

 

[DFAC]

Is anyone else sick of both of these guys and want them both gone?

 

[kvladimir]

I think they really have to focus on a young 20’s C who could be a Top 6 C but not yet.

Whether that’s in a EP or JT trade or separately.

One team that I could see entering the fray for EP specifically in the offseason is MIN, who will have tons of cap and a need for a 1C once this season is over. Not sure if they would find it super appealing, but it's not hard to imagine Rossi being offered (he is an RFA on Jul 1st), plus a solid prospect (Ohgren?), and maybe another roster player that they can survive losing.

So, one example of how waiting until the offseason might open things up. Plus, assuming you deal Miller relatively soon, all that time to see how EP responds and possibly increases his trade value (obviously assuming they stick with the idea that a change of scenery is needed despite this)

They'll end up looking like the Calgary Flames of the past decade, just aggressively mediocre with no direction.

Fair concern, although the Flames never had a Quinn Hughes supporting their mediocre centres. The path back to contention might not be as difficult as some think. The focus should be on getting the right deal(s), for the best value, even if it means being short at centre for the time being

 

[bossram]

I thought they said it was directed towards Tocchet not Pettersson? Maybe I heard wrong but I could have sworn that was reported the other day.

I think it was directed at Tocc as well. I Just said it was an incident that caused them to send him home. I didn't say what it was.

I think JT losing it at the coach is a pretty telling sign of his emotional control and general behaviour.

 

[Nopefully]

I wish I had this much leeway if I underperformed at work. Amazing.

Owe the bank $10,000 dollars, that’s your problem. Owe the bank $10,000,000, that’s the banks problem.

Ie that huge contract

 

[bossram]

Did they send him home? Is there actual evidence of that? People can believe what they want, I get it, but I haven't seen anything that says that is what actually happened...and it doesn't necessarily mean someone was victimized.

Reporting is that the club asked him to step away after JT had some kind of blow up at Tocc. He then went on the "leave of absence".

Fair concern, although the Flames never had a Quinn Hughes supporting their mediocre centres. The path back to contention might not be as difficult as some think. The focus should be on getting the right deal(s), for the best value, even if it means being short at centre for the time being

The team currently has Quinn and they're not close to being a true contender. I don't see how retooling with even more mid players is gonna get there.

 

[Quinning]

You have no idea, and you're getting darn close to slandering JT Miller.

It's technically libel as it's in writing, but we should be mindful of this. People have been sued for things they post on message boards, and it's not entirely impossible for you to be tracked down.

Mods will also take down anything that qualifies as libelous to protect the integrity of the forum and individual posters.

 

[ManVanFan]

That's a bit of selective thinking, in my opinion. Miller has by no means been universally popular here throughout his tenure, there were plenty of people that wanted Horvat kept over him, and he's gone through an entire season where most of the market was against him due to his behavior (the Delia situation was like two years ago). In fact, Miller has only really been universally popular, I'd argue, last season.

Management has also been rumoured to have tried to move him at least twice, if not more.



That was a sensational situation that has happened very few times. I'd say it's a bad comparison mainly because there was not material management or coaching turnover, and they were covering up something they were potentially complicit in. Given how much turnover has happened here, I fail to see how you draw that line, given there's been so much turnover among coaches and an entire front-office swap.

Management is brought in to win hockey games. Chicago management said nothing because winning a Stanley cup was more important. Management and coaches are brought in to win hockey games and if you don't you are fired. Rumors of Tocchet feeling like he has to babysit. A leave of absence for a player was seemingly unheard of when Miller took it.

Everything that has been said in the news and all the rumours, there is clear writing on the wall. The Canucks locker room is currently toxic. It has an issue. It's been rumoured to be going on for years. Usually just ends up in a trade and it becomes someone else's problem or just hope that it goes away.

 

[kvladimir]

Reporting is that the club asked him to step away after JT had some kind of blow up at Tocc. He then went on the "leave of absence".


The team currently has Quinn and they're not close to being a true contender. I don't see how retooling with even more mid players is gonna get there.

Some combination of filling out the roster better at other positions with trade returns, plus probably opening up lots more cap space, and using it to make shrewd low-cost acquisitions from other teams that need to open space (harder to do with the cap going up, of course, but there should still be some options, players not performing to their contract that would be high risk/high reward to add - see the Hronek trade, Pacioretty trade, Burns trade, Laine trade, etc...)

 

[Quinning]

Management is brought in to win hockey games. Chicago management said nothing because winning a Stanley cup was more important. Management and coaches are brought in to win hockey games and if you don't you are fired. Rumors of Tocchet feeling like he has to babysit. A leave of absence for a player was seemingly unheard of when Miller took it.

Everything that has been said in the news and all the rumours, there is clear writing on the wall. The Canucks locker room is currently toxic. It has an issue. It's been rumoured to be going on for years. Usually just ends up in a trade and it becomes someone else's problem or just hope that it goes away.

At the end of the day, there's one thing we all know to be true:

Jim Benning was running this ship for eight years. His incompetence and ongoing failure to ice a consistently competitive hockey team are qualities that have been ingrained in this core group of players for years now. He may be three years removed, but his presence is very much still looming over all of this.

 

[Canucker]

Reporting is that the club asked him to step away after JT had some kind of blow up at Tocc. He then went on the "leave of absence".

I would never try to deny the fact that Miller seems like he can be a difficult person to manage or work with...you can tell he's an ultra intense guy to the point of obsessive and that can't always be easy to be around, but I have a problem with a lot of this bully/victim talk with no actual evidence of bullying other than Miller being "hard" on Petey...I don't know what that means? I certainly wouldn't jump to classifying him as a bully without some kind of solid evidence that it was actually bullying. It seems like there are a few people around here who have taken the position that Miller is 100% categorically a bully based on simply conjecture and his abrasive personality, and if you don't see it that way, you are victim blaming EP.

IMO...Miller doesn't have to be a bully and EP doesn't need to be a victim in this, they could just be two people who absolutely hate the other's personality and they don't get along.

 

[PavelBure10]

Is anyone else sick of both of these guys and want them both gone?

If they weren't our top 2 centers and star players I would ship them both out, but considering moving these 2 would create so many holes in the roster, and probably put the nail in Hughes coffin. You can only move one.

The Cozens, Byram for Petey deal kind of makes sense because it fills two holes.

The Chytil, Lindgren and 1st for Miller could work aswell.

The roster is a little more complete but severely lacks star power other than Hughes.

This whole debacle sucks and it really should of never come down to this.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

But it was okay that Miller needed a reset? He was only human. It was okay if he took a month off because he needed it. He had no issues dining out then.

Miller put up 103 points and despite everything is still relatively productive this season. He's earned a reset if that's what he needed. Pettersson, meanwhile, has been mediocre at best since the day he signed his new contract.

Put bluntly, Miller has been worth every cent since the day he signed. Pettersson has not.

 

[Wisp]

Is anyone else sick of both of these guys and want them both gone?

I'm sick of the noise and want that gone. That's not the same thing as being sick of them.

Ideally they start winning some games and get back in a playoff spot and then we can talk about ANYTHING else.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Is anyone else sick of both of these guys and want them both gone?

I'm just sick of the drama, period.

I'd rather keep Pettersson, but at the same time, he's the one with actual value right now. And I don't know that trading both of them makes us better unless we absolutely luck out on player development.

 

[Quinning]

I'm sick of the noise and want that gone. That's not the same thing as being sick of them.

Ideally they start winning some games and get back in a playoff spot and then we can talk about ANYTHING else.

There is no getting rid of the noise without trading one or both of them. It's far too late for that.

In the words of Arthur Morgan:

"Everyone best pick your side because this is over."

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

This thread has turned into shit.

 

[bossram]

I would never try to deny the fact that Miller seems like he can be a difficult person to manage or work with...you can tell he's an ultra intense guy to the point of obsessive and that can't always be easy to be around, but I have a problem with a lot of this bully/victim talk with no actual evidence of bullying other than Miller being "hard" on Petey...I don't know what that means? I certainly wouldn't jump to classifying him as a bully without some kind of solid evidence that it was actually bullying. It seems like there are a few people around here who have taken the position that Miller is 100% categorically a bully based on simply conjecture and his abrasive personality, and if you don't see it that way, you are victim blaming EP.

IMO...Miller doesn't have to be a bully and EP doesn't need to be a victim in this, they could just be two people who absolutely hate the other's personality and they don't get along.

Based on the chatter around Miller and his public/visible blowups on the ice and on the bench throughout his career, I think it's pretty safe to assume Miller is a generally bad teammate, if not a bully.

Again, we also know Miller's conduct caused the club to send him home for a month/10 games. This is something we never see in the NHL. This is an extremely telling signal to me as to the kind of teammate/person he is.

 

[ChilliBilly]

The Richardson article pretty much determines my position on this situation. Petey is younger and more valuable to this organization. And we have all the pieces to be a top contender. Last year everything went right. This year pretty much everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. Most consider our core to be EP, JTM, Demko, Boeser, Hronek and in particular - Hughes. Everyone but Boeser has missed time, some of it considerable.

A lot of the misery will be fixed by going on a winning streak. I am hoping the streak has started, and we go something like 8 -1 - 1 .... that would have us at 28 -18 -11 on the season.

Make it happen boys, you have the talent to do it.