Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Hold up, let Chef Allvin cook.

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Last one was over 1,000. Continue here. Use this thread to discuss league-wide trade and free agent rumours. The Around the League thread is for coaching changes, league news, SCF chat, etc.

Vector's NHL Transaction Tracker.

Some Important Off-Season Dates

Buyout Period: June 27th, evening; players without NMCs must be placed on unconditional waivers 24 hours prior (another buyout period opens if a team has a player file for arbitration). This buyout period ends June 30th. 8:00pm.
Team-Elected Arbitration: June 26th, evening
NHL Awards: June 27th
Draft Day 01: June 28th
Draft Day 02: June 29th
Qualifying Offer Date: June 30th
Free Agency Opens: July 1st, 9am PST
Summer Development Camp: July 1st-4th
Player-Elected Arbitration: July 5th
Young Stars Classic Tournament: Sep. 13th-16th

Click to read more...

 

[Delocatedfan]

If Jeff Skinner gets bought out by Buffalo do we think the Vancouver Canucks will make a call to his agent?

 

[ahmon]

it takes 2 to tango? why in the hell would Joshua and his agent do this as he approaches UFA on a heater? DJ was on a 20 goal pace by Xmas and was amongst the hit leaders they weren't going to just take what they could get

my opinion is Joshua would have taken less at xmas than on July 1st.

there's no way his value now after 8 points in 13 games and leading the playoffs in hits didn't only increase his value. so whatever he gets now, he probably would have signed for less then.

It was reported the canucks offered Joshua a contract in the low to mid 2s, near the end of the season.

They are delusional and tried to low ball him.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

well there's a new thing. greenway pk'd for buffalo a lot last year for the first time in his career. more than joshua.

the more you know.

I think he was one of the best penalty killers last year. He was elite on the pk.

 

[krutovsdonut]

If Jeff Skinner gets bought out by Buffalo do we think the Vancouver Canucks will make a call to his agent?

seems like a future oiler to me

 

[MS]

my opinion is Joshua would have taken less at xmas than on July 1st.

there's no way his value now after 8 points in 13 games and leading the playoffs in hits didn't only increase his value. so whatever he gets now, he probably would have signed for less then.

It was reported the canucks offered Joshua a contract in the low to mid 2s, near the end of the season.

They are delusional and tried to low ball him.

Yup. Striking at the right time to get value is part of good negotiations and they definitely dropped the ball here and it will cost them either the player or a lot of money.

If Jeff Skinner gets bought out by Buffalo do we think the Vancouver Canucks will make a call to his agent?

Ray Ferraro thought definitely no and our AGM is his wife, if that means anything.

 

[sting101]

my opinion is Joshua would have taken less at xmas than on July 1st.

there's no way his value now after 8 points in 13 games and leading the playoffs in hits didn't only increase his value. so whatever he gets now, he probably would have signed for less then.

It was reported the canucks offered Joshua a contract in the low to mid 2s, near the end of the season.

They are delusional and tried to low ball him.

They are not delusional and you are projecting a ton of speculation here. It's highly unlikely that Joshua on pace for 20 goals and established as a 3LW PKing and leading the league in hits even early on was going to be taking a cheap deal as you're suggesting as he approached UFA and only 27/28yrs old.
As far as the lowball offers it's no different that what agents throw out to Dhaliwall and Seravelli the truth lies somewhere in the middle and it's just part of a negotiating process.

It's possible they could have made it work but it's also possible that Joshua doesn't have as strong a 2nd half. There isnt a ton of past history here.....what were you saying/thinking in October out of curiosity because i certainly didn't expect as good a season and also still am cognizant that Garland is the direct cause of about 60% of his points. Not saying he didn't help Garland but it's easy to see who helps who a lot more

 

[Delocatedfan]

Thats fair, I was thinking more on getting an offensive minded winger for cheap but he has had a strange career where he looked great & followed up with an underwhelming season

 

[Wisp]

If Jeff Skinner gets bought out by Buffalo do we think the Vancouver Canucks will make a call to his agent?

Ray Ferraro not-so-subtly indicated they would not be doing this.

 

[wonton15]

Loved listening to Ferraro. Smart guy with a wife who’s (lol) connected.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Sub five-ten percent chance stone hands anchor is here next year.
Cap is vital within Hughes' current contract and the fans clinging to delusions of him still recovering is just wishful thinking and copium to cover their bad takes the past two years.

He's bad, has always been good 200ft defensively, low iq low skill practically no hands his whole career, just used to be very fast.

 

[Vector]

 

[Wisp]

Loved listening to Ferraro. Smart guy with a wife who’s (lol) connected.

isn't he the connected wife in this case? lol, cammi is the source.

 

[ahmon]

Yup. Striking at the right time to get value is part of good negotiations and they definitely dropped the ball here and it will cost them either the player or a lot of money.

Yup, exactly, when you see a player rapidly improving you don't wait it out and have all risk off the table before you sign a player. That's when you overpay, at best you pay fair value.

If you pay fair value to every player on your team, you have an average team.

This management did the same with Petey, was shocked when Frank said he doesn't believe the canucks offered Petey a legit contract in the offseason. They waited for Petey to score a 2nd 100 pt season, then panicked and realized it would take 12+ (after Nylander signed his deal) and signed Petey to 11.6.

This management has done some good pro scouting moves, but has made some really weird moves.

They either way too patient and slow, or they go really aggressive and make a really poor decision to acquire a player who doesn't even fit like Lindholm - and overpay.

Was scary they were willing to double down on their mistake and offered Lindholm 7 x 7. That was going to suck. good thing Lindholm rejected it.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The literal road to ruin in the cap era has been handing out $5-6 million AAV contract with term to Toffoli-level 50-something point 2nd liners when they're 30-32 years old. These sorts of deals have traditionally been the OPPOSITE of accruing talent relative to cap space. 2024 Toffoli is basically 2016 Loui Eriksson in terms of profile - a slow 31 y/o player coming off a good 'on-paper' season that had a lot of red flags when you looked deeper.

The problem is that Joshua is not a 3rd line talent. He was a legit 2nd line player last year, both in the regular season and in the playoffs.

The other thing is that you're paying Joshua $millions less than Toffoli so you're basically free to add another solid middle-6 player if you choose Joshua over Toffoli in that scenario.

When you talk about accruing talent relative to cap space, you first have to acknowledge the talent differential between players, right? Toffoli is a legit top6 talent. Joshua is a 3rd line talent. Now granted, you could have a 3rd line talent produce at a top6 clip, just as Mikheyev had done for 30ish games, but that does not equate to him being a top6 talent. Hopefully, that is understood.

Viewing Joshua as a legit top6 talent due to ES production alone is the same mistake this management team made with Mikheyev as a Free Agent. His rate was top6, 32 points in 53 games, but he was not, and is not, a top6 forward. You could say his contract was a brick in the "road to ruin"...

Given that understanding, it's no wonder why they are after Toffoli and not Joshua. It's also why Toffoli gets paid what he does as well.

Guentzel, whom I'm surprised you even want here based upon past conversations, is effectively Toffoli++. He's a middling possession player, small and his top speed is meh. What he is though, is a legit 1st line player based upon talent. The thinking behind getting either one is the same. That you've isolated the lower case as anathema while lauding the higher case is, frankly, weird.

In any case, this team desperately needs talent and so far. They've earned the trust here to see it through, imo.

 

[sting101]

Ray Ferraro is one of our secret weapons. His work and how astute he is at dissecting the game gives us a huge leg up on player evaluations and insight that Cammi can bring to the table for pro scouting

 

[Bleach Clean]

Ray Ferraro not-so-subtly indicated they would not be doing this.

He was also signaling their thoughts on Joshua.

 

[Bgav]

How much do you guys think Teemu Teravainen gets?

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

How much do you guys think Teemu Teravainen gets?

Somewhere in the $5M range per year sounds about right given his production. Give or take a bit.

Maybe a 4-year deal?

 

[JT Milker]

Ray Ferraro is one of our secret weapons. His work and how astute he is at dissecting the game gives us a huge leg up on player evaluations and insight that Cammi can bring to the table for pro scouting

You think Ferraro is providing player evaluation for free?

 

[Vector]

Oilers:
-Oilers preference isn't to walk Draisaitl to free agency
-will deal with their UFAs first then Draisaitl
-TSN's understanding is that Ken Holland won't be back with the Oilers

Stamkos:
-Lightning will have to change their offer to retain him
-Predators have serious interest
-Stamkos would like to remain in Tampa Bay
-belief is Red Wings would take a run at Stamkos

Maple Leafs:
-know that there is ongoing dialogue between the Maple Leafs and Marner
-more focused on bringing in at least one RD and depth in goal

Hurricanes:
-several teams are still in on Necas
-one team has jumped to the front of the queue and is dangling a first rounder; thinks it is the Sabres
-trying to re-sign Guentzel; believes they have a shot at signing him

Canucks:
-one of the teams waiting and hoping for Guentzel to get to market

Sexual Assault Cases:
-league and NHLPA trying to figure out if those players QOs will count differently
-QO date is Sunday

 

[Wisp]

How much do you guys think Teemu Teravainen gets?

Teemu gets Two Mill

 

[MS]

When you talk about accruing talent relative to cap space, you first have to acknowledge the talent differential between players, right? Toffoli is a legit top6 talent. Joshua is a 3rd line talent. Now granted, you could have a 3rd line talent produce at a top6 clip, just as Mikheyev had done for 30ish games, but that does not equate to him being a top6 talent. Hopefully, that is understood.

Viewing Joshua as a legit top6 talent due to ES production alone is the same mistake this management team made with Mikheyev as a Free Agent. His rate was top6, 32 points in 53 games, but he was not, and is not, a top6 forward. You could say his contract was a brick in the "road to ruin"...

Given that understanding, it's no wonder why they are after Toffoli and not Joshua. It's also why Toffoli gets paid what he does as well.

Guentzel, whom I'm surprised you even want here based upon past conversations, is effectively Toffoli++. He's a middling possession player, small and his top speed is meh. What he is though, is a legit 1st line player based upon talent. The thinking behind getting either one is the same. That you've isolated the lower case as anathema while lauding the higher case is, frankly, weird.

In any case, this desperately needs talent and so far. They've earned the trust here to see it through, imo.

Alex Burrows was a bottom-6 nobody until he wasn't.
Chris Tanev was a 5D with no shot until he wasn't.

Sometimes you have to adjust to new information and Dakota Joshua was an absolutely fantastic player for this team last year and full value for producing at a 2nd line rate from 3rd line minutes. It wasn't an accident, and if anything he looked like a guy who might have more to give further up the lineup.

Guentzel is a guy who has scored at an 85 point/82 pace over the last 5 years and a 95 point pace last year. He's 2 years younger than Toffoli and just a totally different level of player. Toffoli started last year hot on a line with Jack Hughes and then once Hughes got hurt he looked like a shadow of his former self. There is an enormous gap between those players. One is signing a gamebreaker and the other is signing an Eriksson/Neal/Backes/Nielsen and hoping they creak their way to another 50-point season.

Mikheyev was fine on a 2nd line even with 1 knee last year. Post-knee surgery, he fell apart.

 

[sting101]

You think Ferraro is providing player evaluation for free?

i think him and his wife talk. Why wouldn't she ask him about some players he see's

 

[Vector]

Can't believe I've only updated my spreadsheet one time today and it was for a Liam O'Brien extension.

 

[TruGr1t]

Good, any further supply of 25+ g / 50+ pt guys making it to market is good for the Canucks purposes.