Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Don’t Incur Vector’s Wrath!

[Reverend Mayhem]

Aw shit now you guys have done it, Rev is moving to PC. You're f***ed now.

HAHAHA not really xD

My fingers on mobile don't move as fast as my mind and it'd be riddled with spelling and grammatical mistakes. You should read some of my dad's texts to me....texting and finger dexterity are not strengths in this family. Once the Mary Jane comes out...we're basically in our own world. My 23andme says I'm at risk of fibromyalgia and judging by how I lived my 20s, I wouldn't say I'm at risk, I just plain have it sadly enough.

My body really and truly is quitting on me. No one likes a quitter. But that's time. It's coming for us all, eventually. Just enjoy what you DO have while you still have it, kids. I'd say that to my younger self, but that person already kinda knew that. It's a shame his peers did not. So much more hockey left to be played by this dumb ass with one working f***ing knee LMAO.

 

[Peen]

I think you're looking into the Soucy trade too much.

He was pretty much our 7th D-man (might have fallen to 8th with Willander's arrival) and signed for over 3M next year. They were just getting rid of what was essentially dead cap and gained a pick that they may have used had they found the right subsequent deal.

He was the 5th lefty on our depth chart. Trading him away does not make the team worse, the difference is marginal at best.

I didn't see the rush in dealing Soucy but it's been over a year since he's been at that #4 level he was at in 2023 with Seattle and us in the first half of that season.

I think he's not old / not a bad enough skater for him to regain that form. But it wasn't going to be here once we acquired M-Petey, and even more so given D-Petey's level. And, forbort was outplaying him.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Trading Brock for like a 2nd and whatever doesn’t get us enough to get the player we are aiming to get.
It’s not really as simple as, we’ll just package that 2nd and our 1st and another 2nd to get somebody else. Well have you considered that’s not really an option because players at that price point actually won’t improve our team? If there are players that would we probably would’ve traded Brock already.

It gets us closer to that position though. You’re acting like this is a team chock full of assets that is on the verge of something great. Well they aren’t chock full of assets and Brock Boeser isn’t leading them to any success. Actually adding some assets, for a player not worth re-signing, and spending those assets on a player worth keeping is the smart play here. But you do you by keeping the player that isn’t producing and isn’t worth keeping.

yes there is a cost to not trading away boeser, but there is also another cost of trading him which is communicating to Quinn that we are throwing in the towel.

We are not going to f*** around and find out with Quinn, especially not at a price of like a 2nd rounder.

Except Brock isn’t producing anything at this point. You’re acting like this is is a prime player that is the difference between this team making the playoffs and not. He isn’t.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I kind of agree with him so my post is along similar lines -> Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Don’t Incur Vector’s Wrath!

It sucks. I think this TDL and inability to add two impact forwards is pushing them to, imo, their brink. They almost nabbed Guentzel. They lost Miller. They have Chytil to show for it. That is horrible. From a results standpoint, they need to be accountable. This is a throwaway season now with zero upside.

I just... don't think the process is nearly as bad as the results. I agree with him - a 2nd + meh isn't getting you the same as a 1st in a future trade. And I think there's value in not selling star players for below market because of the internal optics (QH saying hey you traded a guy who scored 40 last year for the 50th and some other organization's danila klimovich) + how it f***s you in future leverage that you're willing to shift off your already fair ask.

So you have zero interest in actually making this team better going forward than? We’re talking about a player producing absolutely nothing right now, that has rejected a completely reasonable contract extension. But you’d rather lose him for nothing because somehow it looks better to Quinn to keep a passenger for a few weeks rather than actually attempt to improve the longterm performance of the team.

 

[kanucks25]

I didn't see the rush in dealing Soucy but it's been over a year since he's been at that #4 level he was at in 2023 with Seattle and us in the first half of that season.

I think he's not old / not a bad enough skater for him to regain that form. But it wasn't going to be here once we acquired M-Petey, and even more so given D-Petey's level. And, forbort was outplaying him.

Gives us flexibility and does the player a favor putting him in a situation where he can play instead of sitting in a press box watching a rookie eat his lunch.

Would not be surprised if he's decent next year. Seems to have made a career of alternating good and bad seasons. Just wasn't going to happen here, he became redundant.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I kind of agree with him so my post is along similar lines -> Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Don’t Incur Vector’s Wrath!

It sucks. I think this TDL and inability to add two impact forwards is pushing them to, imo, their brink. They almost nabbed Guentzel. They lost Miller. They have Chytil to show for it. That is horrible. From a results standpoint, they need to be accountable. This is a throwaway season now with zero upside.

I just... don't think the process is nearly as bad as the results. I agree with him - a 2nd + meh isn't getting you the same as a 1st in a future trade. And I think there's value in not selling star players for below market because of the internal optics (QH saying hey you traded a guy who scored 40 last year for the 50th and some other organization's danila klimovich) + how it f***s you in future leverage that you're willing to shift off your already fair ask.

That's just it for me, life ain't about the destination, we're all going the same place. It's just for me the journey HAS to make sense, even if for most it doesn't. The destination is fixed, the roads there are uncertain and that is either exciting or anxiety-inducing and my sense on the matter is it fluctuates from day-to-day between the two.

And it's the same for me in business as well as hockey. Situations are fluid, if you don't have 3 or 4 back-up plans what are we doing? If those all don't work out, do you just do what everyone else is doing? I say no.

 

[Peter Griffin]

That's just it for me, life ain't about the destination, we're all going the same place. It's just for me the journey HAS to make sense, even if for most it doesn't. The destination is fixed, the roads there are uncertain and that is either exciting or anxiety-inducing and my sense on the matter is it fluctuates from day-to-day between the two.

And it's the same for me in business as well as hockey. Situations are fluid, if you don't have 3 or 4 back-up plans what are we doing? If those all don't work out, do you just do what everyone else is doing? I say no.

Except your business isn’t the same as hockey. Do you own your employees rights? Yea, didn’t think so. Stop trying to compare whatever business you’re involved in to professional sports, it’s not the same. There’s an asset management aspect to professional sports that is completely unique.

 

[kanucks25]

I think the philosophical differences make this a tough situation, along with not knowing the details of what teams were really offering us.

Some people believe they should have taken anything that was offered because chances are the players are going to walk and we don't have enough bullets to address our needs this upcoming off-season.

However management decided against it because:
- they felt it was important for them not to get bent over
- it gives them the opportunity to restart contract negotiations
- it gives the team the opportunity to make the playoffs (even though everybody including management knows they don't have a serious chance in the playoffs) to get some of the players some good experience and probably because it'd be good for organizational vibes going forward

As someone who wanted us to sell I am overall disappointed but am willing to see what they have up their sleeves in the off-season before I turn on this management group.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Except your business isn’t the same as hockey. Do you own your employees rights? Yea, didn’t think so. Stop trying to compare whatever business you’re involved in to professional sports, it’s not the same.

I'm not in the employer class, friend. I have about as much skin in the game as you do, which I feel qualifies me to at least voice my opinion, same as you. Funny enough you've already made assumptions about myself that just are not even close to the mark. Hopefully that won't be a problem.

 

[credulous]

I just... don't think the process is nearly as bad as the results. I agree with him - a 2nd + meh isn't getting you the same as a 1st in a future trade. And I think there's value in not selling star players for below market because of the internal optics (QH saying hey you traded a guy who scored 40 last year for the 50th and some other organization's danila klimovich) + how it f***s you in future leverage that you're willing to shift off your already fair ask.

i think it's way less important that quinn hughes is happy now than quinn hughes is happy 15 months from now when he's eligible to sign an extension. if you're even a little uncertain hughes is extending you need to put everything you've got into that day 15 months away. if boeser is walking this summer hughes isn't gonna look back fondly on those 20 extra games they got to play together and commit to vancouver because of it

just make the hard decisions. if they work out great. if they fail then at least you had a shot. failing because you didn't want to rock the boat or because you were worried about the optics is just failure though

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

i think it's way less important that quinn hughes is happy now than quinn hughes is happy 15 months from now when he's eligible to sign an extension. if you're even a little uncertain hughes is extending you need to put everything you've got into that day 15 months away. if boeser is walking this summer hughes isn't gonna look back fondly on those 20 extra games they got to play together and commit to vancouver because of it

just make the hard decisions. if they work out great. if they fail then at least you had a shot. failing because you didn't want to rock the boat or because you were worried about the optics is just failure though

In that spirit, I'll pose this question to the board....it's for all, not just cred.

It's 2008. You're the GM. You are offered say....Brad Richards for Kesler, Schneider, and a 1st...what do YOU do and why? Your job is on the line and you are in 9th place in your conference by a point...

 

[Peter Griffin]

I'm not in the employer class, friend. I have about as much skin in the game as you do, which I feel qualifies me to at least voice my opinion, same as you. Funny enough you've already made assumptions about myself that just are not even close to the mark. Hopefully that won't be a problem.

Curious then, what was your point? Maybe I misread you, but what were you referring to in reference to your ideology being the same as in business as in hockey?

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Curious then, what was your point? Maybe I misread you, but what were you referring to in reference to your ideology being the same as in business as in hockey?

Basically what you do in a vacuum needs to be consistent with your character as a person and your overarching view of things. Be exactly who you are, and what you deserve comes to you and nothing else.

From what he's shown, Allvin doesn't seem like a risk-taker. He's a plan-for-all-options guy. That came out in how he said he called Hankinson the night before to prepare their camp that Brock could still be here by tomorrow night.

I don't mind a plan-for-all-options guy, but they can think themselves out of a box, or into a corner. I don't really know what this TDL was because I could argue either way, it really depends on the moves he makes this summer. But I think the team as is can compete for a playoff spot, they've shown this season they can win more than one way...but it's been ugly as well. We had no business grabbing 2 points off Minnesota, just like the Ducks had no business grabbing 2 points from us the night before. In for a pound, out for...well...y'know. Or however that one goes. I do think making the playoffs means something to the players. Hell, as a (piss-poor) amateur hockey player myself, I have more spring in my step when I have playoff games scheduled.

That's more the philosophy there, but I know business and hockey, but not the business OF hockey. I'm just a fan. The sport mystifies me, the business is less exciting but more intricate. That's all I got on that one, before I go into my rambling ways. If you'd like to jump off those thoughts, I'm all ears.

For the record, I was all-in on trying to parlay Boeser into Rantanen or scooping RoR for a 1st and a B- prospect because we are f***ing abysmal on the draw without Miller.

 

[credulous]

In that spirit, I'll pose this question to the board....it's for all, not just cred.

It's 2008. You're the GM. You are offered say....Brad Richards for Kesler, Schneider, and a 1st...what do YOU do and why? Your job is on the line and you are in 9th place in your conference by a point...

yeah probably. with the benefit of hindsight it's likely the wrong answer but you had the sedins at their apex and probably the last season of naslund and morrison. the team was coming off a very strong showing the prior season and there was no real reason to believe the team couldn't have a strong playoff showing if they made it in

kesler was a key part of the 2011 finals appearance and they turned schneider into horvat eventually but the 1st was cody hodgson who never really mattered even after he was turned into kassian. brad richards on the other hand was one of the most productive players in the league over the next 3 seasons

 

[Peen]

So you have zero interest in actually making this team better going forward than? We’re talking about a player producing absolutely nothing right now, that has rejected a completely reasonable contract extension. But you’d rather lose him for nothing because somehow it looks better to Quinn to keep a passenger for a few weeks rather than actually attempt to improve the longterm performance of the team.

I think it comes down to improving the room significantly enough for it to be consequential versus treadmilling.

I’m not saying we are in a better position asset wise with zero picks instead of a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th for Boeser, Suter, Forbort.

I’m just saying that I think the stuff I mentioned usurps the value of those mid picks because we can’t improve the team consequentially.

Like the team needs two top six forwards on top of a Pettersson return to form.
It sucks. The results suck. And management has to bear it all.

Like I said yesterday, I’m more annoyed with the lack of an acquisition up front than I am with the inaction of not selling. They needed to do more.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

yeah probably. with the benefit of hindsight it's likely the wrong answer but you had the sedins at their apex and probably the last season of naslund and morrison. the team was coming off a very strong showing the prior season and there was no real reason to believe the team couldn't have a strong playoff showing if they made it in

kesler was a key part of the 2011 finals appearance and they turned schneider into horvat eventually but the 1st was cody hodgson who never really mattered even after he was turned into kassian. brad richards on the other hand was one of the most productive players in the league over the next 3 seasons

The 2nd part is all well and true, but in this hypothetical it's still 2008 and we don't really know that yet.

The obvious answer for I'd think like 80% of the board would agree with you, yes you make the deal. But it's the wrong move as well. IMO. Hell, I'd have agreed with you back then as well most likely. It's why I post here and don't have some cushy white-collar office job.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Basically what you do in a vacuum needs to be consistent with your character as a person and your overarching view of things. Be exactly who you are, and what you deserve comes to you and nothing else.

From what he's shown, Allvin doesn't seem like a risk-taker. He's a plan-for-all-options guy. That came out in how he said he called Hankinson the night before to prepare their camp that Brock could still be here by tomorrow night.

I don't mind a plan-for-all-options guy, but they can think themselves out of a box, or into a corner. I don't really know what this TDL was because I could argue either way, it really depends on the moves he makes this summer. But I think the team as is can compete for a playoff spot, they've shown this season they can win more than one way...but it's been ugly as well. We had no business grabbing 2 points off Minnesota, just like the Ducks had no business grabbing 2 points from us the night before. In for a pound, out for...well...y'know. Or however that one goes.

That's more the philosophy there, but I know business and hockey, but not the business OF hockey. I'm just a fan. The sport mystifies me, the business is less exciting but more intricate. That's all I got on that one, before I go into my rambling ways. If you'd like to jump off those thoughts, I'm all ears.

For the record, I was all-in on trying to parlay Boeser into Rantanen or scooping RoR for a 1st and a B- prospect because we are f***ing abysmal on the draw without Miller.

I don’t share the same sentiment as you with regards to the whole “Be yourself and whatever comes to you is what it is” BS. I’m sorry, but professional sports is ruthless, it’s not the same as most occupations. We’re talking billion dollar businesses here, with very fine lines to accomplish success. You have to be ruthless to a degree to be successful. Ultimately to be successful you have to choose a strategy, going all in to make a push, or selling because this isn’t your year and you maximize your assets for future success. Ultimately this management group decided to straddle the line where they didn’t improve the current team’s chances, and also didn’t improve the team’s future success. All for what exactly?

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I don’t share the same sentiment as you with regards to the whole “Be yourself and whatever comes to you is what it is” BS. I’m sorry, but professional sports is ruthless, it’s not the same as most occupations. We’re talking billion dollar businesses here, with very fine lines to accomplish success. You have to be ruthless to a degree to be successful. Ultimately to be successful you have to choose a strategy, going all in to make a push, or selling because this isn’t your year and you maximize your assets for future success. Ultimately this management group decided to straddle the line where they didn’t improve the current team’s chances, and also didn’t improve the team’s future success. All for what exactly?

Are you a happy man, overall? I think that little saying of mine rings true so hard some people can't handle it. At least in my own experience. Being a chronically unhappy person.

To that I'd say, everyone wants to be Vegas but doesn't seem to understand why that business model is not sustainable long-term. The only reason no one talks about it is because they haven't really faced complete failure, yet.

But if you're a p***ycat, you'll get your tail taken off, it's true. But the same is equally as true for the lion, it just sneaks up on them even harder.

Harden your heart, you'll only block your own arteries, and at your own expense. Life is ruthless, and you can either let it change you, or you can change it. Those choices we make as people and as businesses every second of every day.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I think it comes down to improving the room significantly enough for it to be consequential versus treadmilling.

I’m not saying we are in a better position asset wise with zero picks instead of a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th for Boeser, Suter, Forbort.

I’m just saying that I think the stuff I mentioned usurps the value of those mid picks because we can’t improve the team consequentially.

Like the team needs two top six forwards on top of a Pettersson return to form.
It sucks. The results suck. And management has to bear it all.

Like I said yesterday, I’m more annoyed with the lack of an acquisition up front than I am with the inaction of not selling. They needed to do more.

But the issue is, they did nothing. They didn’t improve the teams current chances and they didn’t improve the team’s future chances. You can argue all you want that the return for Boeser wasn’t going to significantly improve this team. But now the likely reality is that they don’t have any extra assets to add to l their current assets to improve the team going forward. Is the goal to be the best team possible in the current season , or in season(s) going forward? Because they did f*** all to improve either situation.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Are you a happy man, overall? I think that little saying of mine rings true so hard some people can't handle it. At least in my own experience. Being a chronically unhappy person.

To that I'd say, everyone wants to be Vegas but doesn't seem to understand why that business model is not sustainable long-term. The only reason no one talks about it is because they haven't really faced complete failure, yet.

But if you're a p***ycat, you'll get your tail taken off, it's true. But the same is equally as true for the lion, it just sneaks up on them even harder.

Harden your heart, you'll only block your own arteries, and at your own expense. Life is ruthless, and you can either let it change you, or you can change it. Those choices we make as people and as businesses every second of every day.

I have no clue what the f*** you’re trying to say here. I’m trying to talk hockey and I think you’ve lost the plot. Cheers bud.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I have no clue what the f*** you’re trying to say here. I think you’ve lost the plot. Cheers bud.

One of the two of us, has, evidently.

What of life can you not apply to hockey? There are quitters and there are non-quitters.

 

[aight]

One of the two of us, has, evidently.

What of life can you not apply to hockey? There are quitters and there are non-quitters.

and se quiturs

 

[Peter Griffin]

One of the two of us, has, evidently.

What of life can you not apply to hockey? There are quitters and there are non-quitters.

The NHL has a CBA with a salary cap, draft picks, trade values, contracts etc. Comparing NHL management to every day life completely shows you’ve lost the plot. It isn’t the same situation at all. Take care though and keep thinking you can compare “quitting” an NHL season to “quitting” in life, you lunatic. If you can’t determine that you can reset an NHL season that isn’t going your way to refocus on the next season, you’re lost. The NHL isn’t the same as life lol.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

The NHL has a CBA with a salary cap, draft picks, trade values, contracts etc. Comparing NHL management to every day life completely shows you’ve lost the plot. It isn’t the same situation at all. Take care though and keep thinking you can compare “quitting” an NHL season to “quitting” in life, you lunatic. If you can’t determine that you can reset an NHL season that isn’t going your way to refocus on the next season, you’re lost. The NHL isn’t the same as life lol.

If you say so, I guess I'll take your word for it. I don't really concern myself with outside opinion, let alone my own.

If you want to resort to name-calling, can we at least please do it on a forum made for kids? I'll be able to express myself a lot more clearly there.

 

[Peter Griffin]

If you say so, I guess I'll take your word for it. I don't really concern myself with outside opinion, let alone my own.

If you want to resort to name-calling, can we at least please do it on a forum made for kids?

Sure, do whatever you wish.