Went undetected by him and medical staff. Dickinson didn’t miss games for it. And if he’s saying it after the fact it suggests they’ve at some point already identified it and treated him and not just send him to Chicago with a broken untreated hand.
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Diablo2020
Registered User
All the people that post stats like "Pettersson is one of the only players to put up yada yada before yada yada age"....."he'd the first player ever to yada yada collapse"
Is it actually that unfathomable that yeah, we would be the ones to have that happen to us?
We are all Canucks baby! Trendsetters for life.
JT Milker
Registered User
- Mar 24, 2018
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Players play injured all the time, yes, but that should not be a blanket statement to justifying the team playing a player REGARDLESS of whatever injury they have.
Teams have a responsibility to protect the player and guess what, almost every team in the world across all sports league draw the line at ACL/MCL injuries.
There is no good reason for the Canucks to push that boundary especially even in hindsight, there was nothing gained. The fact we pushed that boundary should not be looked at as a positive. If anything, we should look at it with extreme caution because it shows the team is willing to put the player at risk for no f***ing good reason and do something no other team/ medical expert would ever recommend.
lol it’s on you guys to prove that teams actually let guys play with torn ACLs.
Suggest stupid things and ask me to prove it’s not stupid?
PavelBure10
The Russian Rocket
At this point it looks like Pettersson's value dropped so drastically that it would be better to hold onto him in hopes for a bounce back. Which could very well happen, but this could also come back and bite us in the ass too. At this point I don't care what side your on (Trade Petey/Keep Petey), you have a right to think whatever way you do. Injuries or not, I have never seen a star player have so many questions marks surrounding him.
I pray that Pettersson comes in dominant next season and takes us all by surprise. Leaving all doubters at rest. This is all very much hopeful thinking, Pettersson like Demko could be damaged goods for all we know.
Crosses fingers...
I pray that Pettersson comes in dominant next season and takes us all by surprise. Leaving all doubters at rest. This is all very much hopeful thinking, Pettersson like Demko could be damaged goods for all we know.
Crosses fingers...
You want to compare us playing Mik 46 games on purpose with the Oilers playing Hyman 3 games because they didn’t know he had a torn ACL and with the Hawks letting Hall have 1 practice before shutting him down.
Tell me more
I don’t disagree that the best course of action was to probably just shut him down. But to conflate that with medical malpractice when we know players have played with torn ACL’s in the past just isn’t an accurate representation.
We can sit and armchair doctor this all day long. Fact of the matter is, it’s a case by case basis with so many complex circumstances in play it’s not a black or white thing.
Hall missed a couple of games after getting injured then played both games of a back to back before getting shut down.
Canucker
Go Hawks!
How Ilya Mikheyev played through a nearly entirely torn ACL
Sounds to me like Mikheyev made the decision himself with the blessing of the team. Not the decision I would have made myself, but its not like he went into it blind or uneducated on it.
Sounds to me like Mikheyev made the decision himself with the blessing of the team. Not the decision I would have made myself, but its not like he went into it blind or uneducated on it.
There is a huge difference between letting the play through it because the team don’t know the player has it vs figuring out a way to enable a player to play through it.
The point is not about malpractice. The original argument is the team won’t let Petey play if he is really injured and yes this team will let players play when they are injured even if doing so puts them at risk.
And that turned out to be the reason for his underperformance.
It’s not a vote of confidence for our medical team considering the Blackhawk’s medical team caught it right away.
That’s like saying, oh the difference between our medical team and the blackhawks medical team is that the Blackhawk’s one did their f***ing job.
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I don't feel the need to continue to engage with you. You make strawman arguments and move goalposts.
there is no strawman argument, you are the one arguing that every team allows their players to play with a torn ACL.
You either defend that nonsense or you say you are f***ing wrong on the issue.
You want to compare us purposefuly setting Mik to play 46games with a torn ACL vs a case where Hyman played because he didn't know he had a torn ACL and a case where the Blackhawks let Hall play 2 games before shutting him down because they too thought that was too risky.
It's almost you are willing to abandon any sort of nuance just so you can be right about "every team lets their player play with a torn ACL". And now you want to disengage because you don't want to admit that is a stupid take and want to blame me for moving goalposts? lol
I did point teams letting players play with a torn ACL. Everything else is moving goalposts.
Mikheyev tore his ACL in the pre-season, it was determined he could make himself worse, and he elected to play through the injury. When it was clear the Canucks were no longer in a playoff race, he agreed to have surgery. Taylor Hall was injured, missed a couple of games, played two, and with the Blackhawks as bottom-feeders it made sense to shut him down. The two organizations had different goals for their teams but when they alligned they each shut down the player.
You asked for an example and I've given you one from last season. Pick it apart all you want but Taylor Hall was allowed to play on a torn ACL. Players play through the playoffs with torn ACLs, such as Hyman but Joe Thornton did so as well. They put off surgery because the injury won't get materially worse and they want to win.
JT Milker
Registered User
- Mar 24, 2018
- 2,105
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Elite athletes can play through ACL tears. You cannot force a player to get surgery on their injury short of suspending them (and you’d get sued by the union). No one here has better information on injuries than the Canucks’ medical staff, even posters that tell you they work in the field.
I agree with most of your statement. The issue is when we have multiple cases that things have not been handled well in a shortish amount of time... maybe we should look at said medical staff should we not?
Again I could be willing to look past certain things, but not when evidence keeps piling up, with multiple players.
When it happened I was defending Mik for playing with it. Then we heard about Pearson, then Dickinson, then Demko, then Pettersson, and then Hughes. Any of these things as a one of absolutely. Hell I am still mostly ok with what happened with Hughes... but this medical staff clearly does need to be looked at.
I've said this multiple times, but the reality is, no poster on HF is in a position where he or she can really evaluate the Canucks' medical staff because of one or more of the following:
1) the poster isn't a medical practitioner and doesn't have the requisite knowledge to evaluate whether the Canucks medical practitioners are negligent or otherwise doing a poor job;
2) the poster doesn't have the requisite information or context with respect to Canucks' injuries (e.g., you can have someone claiming Mikheyev was forced to play with a knee injury, when in reality, it was 100% the player's decision);
3) the poster doesn't have the requisite knowledge of other teams' medical staff and their performance, and therefore, cannot evaluate in context the Canucks medical team (i.e., they are evaluating the Canucks' medical team in isolation which is not reasonable); and
4) the poster doesn't appreciate or understand the standard for medical malpractice or negligence.
It may very well be that the Canucks medical staff does suck, and of course, they will make mistakes from time to time like all other medical practitioners, and perhaps some of these mistakes may even meet the threshold for medical negligence, but at the end of the day, no one on HF actually knows this.
1) the poster isn't a medical practitioner and doesn't have the requisite knowledge to evaluate whether the Canucks medical practitioners are negligent or otherwise doing a poor job;
2) the poster doesn't have the requisite information or context with respect to Canucks' injuries (e.g., you can have someone claiming Mikheyev was forced to play with a knee injury, when in reality, it was 100% the player's decision);
3) the poster doesn't have the requisite knowledge of other teams' medical staff and their performance, and therefore, cannot evaluate in context the Canucks medical team (i.e., they are evaluating the Canucks' medical team in isolation which is not reasonable); and
4) the poster doesn't appreciate or understand the standard for medical malpractice or negligence.
It may very well be that the Canucks medical staff does suck, and of course, they will make mistakes from time to time like all other medical practitioners, and perhaps some of these mistakes may even meet the threshold for medical negligence, but at the end of the day, no one on HF actually knows this.
They have revamped the medical staff over the last couple of seasons. What's interesting is that they've recently, not sure when exactly, all the medical staff from the team page. They have the various trainers but no one that's involved with actual real medical evaluations.
Are you not the one who made the claim that no other team make their players play through an ACL tear? Not only was that a dubious claim that you provided zero evidence for, but @Vector has provided you with contrary evidence. And do doubt there are many other scenarios where players have played with an ACL tear or other similar injuries. Look no further than Steve Yzerman playing on basically one leg for an entire playoff run. Again, these sort of these happen with some regularity.
I have friends that have and continue to play beer league hockey with partial or full tears (can't recall if ACL or MCL).
