Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | 4 Nations Break Edition

[VanillaCoke]

He absolutely is negative value. There's really no argument or debate about it. No team would take on his contract.

Lol okay sure, rhs pk1 centers are a dime a dozen...

Again, Lindholm sucks is a clown take, just likenit was post tdl last year.
Boston sucks this year.


Elias Lindholm the "negative value garbage cap dump nobody would take for free" according to some geniuses here, has One less goal and four less points than the constantly vehemently defended, chronically tendinitised 11.6 ...

 

[I am toxic]

We must get Lindholm

How else do the Canucks balance out the Petterssons and Elias's's?

 

[strattonius]

A clown take is that a 30 year old Lindholm, scoring at a 40 point pace, and signed for another six years at close to 8 million, has negative value?

But a good take was that Miller was going to return Miro Heiskanen?

The clown take is thinking Lindholm is currently a better player than Norris. Totally oblivious opinion that a Canucks past and present player homer would say.

 

[rypper]

Elias Lindholm the "negative value garbage cap dump nobody would take for free" according to some geniuses here, has One less goal and four less points than the constantly vehemently defended, chronically tendinitised 11.6 ...

Wow.

 

[VanillaCoke]

A clown take is that a 30 year old Lindholm, scoring at a 40 point pace, and signed for another six years at close to 8 million, has negative value?

But a good take was that Miller was going to return Miro Heiskanen?

You never fail to amuse bruh lmao

 

[TruGr1t]

Surprised you mentioned Ryan Strome. To me, he seems pretty cooked at this point.

He's playing 1C for the Ducks and is on track for like a career high in points. He's also a right shot, and on a contract that expires in 2026-27.

 

[VanillaCoke]

The clown take is thinking Lindholm is currently a better player than Norris. Totally oblivious opinion that a Canucks past and present player homer would say.

If you're trying to win games, especially in the playoffs, Lindholm is clearly the better option, and has been for their entire respective careers, aside from.one year before norris was part cyborg.

The chances norris is even in the damn lineup isn't great.

If Lindholm is garbage who sucks, so does norris and ep1, but the mental gymnastics will continue.

If Norris was so damn good Ottawa wouldn't be trying to trade him for a year.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I wouldn't object to acquiring Hampus Lindholm.

 

[Hodgy]

You never fail to amuse bruh lmao

It amuses me that you are willing to call other posters' takes "clown takes" when just a few weeks or so ago you thought JT Miller could return Miro Heiskanen.

Like, maybe you need to re-evaluate your own views on current player values.

 

[Vector]

You never fail to amuse bruh lmao

If you can't have a discussion like an adult, it may be time for you to take a break.

 

[Nucker42]

Wonder if Zegres could be had for cheap. A couple 60+ points seasons. Regressed this year but still super young.

Canucks need more top 6 scoring. Could they possibly get Zegres with assets for Boeser?

 

[Dirtyclapper]

It’s worrisome that Winnipeg hasn’t been able to sell out games despite being at the top of the standings for years.

They already have a below-average sized arena. Their owner has already shown impatience with the Winnipeg corporate community and fan base.

The irony if they lose their team to relocation to Phoenix again.

David Thomson is the 3rd richest person in Canada, the jets aren't going anywhere anytime soon

 

[Diversification]

Wonder if Zegres could be had for cheap. A couple 60+ points seasons. Regressed this year but still super young.

Canucks need more top 6 scoring. Could they possibly get Zegres with assets for Boeser?

Zegras is an interesting buy-low candidate. But I don't think that upcoming UFA Boeser would have any interest for the Ducks. Would need a third team and to flip the proceeds to acquire Zegras. Even then, I think it would take at minimum a 1st and a prospect/young forward to make the deal.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

David Thomson is the 3rd richest person in Canada, the jets aren't going anywhere anytime soon

That's like $100 USD.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I know he's more of a winger but I'd want to see if there is a deal to be had based on a Mercer for Boeser swap.

Would be nice sort of deal for sure but NJ probably want some sort of assuredness that he re signs.

Wonder if Zegres could be had for cheap. A couple 60+ points seasons. Regressed this year but still super young.

Canucks need more top 6 scoring. Could they possibly get Zegres with assets for Boeser?

there are many who are down on Zegras but he's exactly the type of player management probably is looking for. He won't be cheap though.

 

[ManVanFan]

I know he's more of a winger but I'd want to see if there is a deal to be had based on a Mercer for Boeser swap.

It's like a Sharagovich and a 3rd for Toffoli type deal. I'd do something like that.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Sure, all things equal, that's obviously true. But Norris and Lindholm aren't equal. One has a long contract and is five years older, and is somehow scoring at a lower rate than the other.

For the record, Lindhom absolutely does suck based on his current contract and usage. And there shouldn't be any debate there. And why are we only concerned about ES production? Lindholm has been given every opportunity to score on the powerplay, playing with one of the game's best wingers, but hasn't be able to because he sucks offensively. So Lindholm isn't a player who is scoring well at even strength but isn't getting an opportunity on the powerplay. I get targeting those players.

I get a preference for even strength production, but the Canucks actually need both even strength and powerplay production. Losing JT Miller, who was a PP driver, hurts, and we need to find away to replace that production.

Looking back five years is an obviously bad comparison when one player is 25 and one player is 30. Like, how is it fair to compare Lindholm's "prime" years, to Norris "pre-prime years". Why do we care that Lindholm, at like 29 years old, outscored Norris at 21 years old?
We can actually reasonably expect Norris' production to improve while the opposite is true with Lindholm.


Doesn't seem overly significant.

Again, if you ignore contract status and age and powerplay points? Ok?

To be fair, I am not even advocating Norris, necessarily. Its a huge risk. And I don't like the idea of LTIR anyway. I just made the point that there is at least a possibility of LTIRetiring Norris , if the injuries continue and are significant, which would be a far better outcome than having Lindholm score 30-40 points as your third line centre for the next 6 years at around 8 million dollars per year.

I don't think they should take on Lindholm's full cap hit either. It would be $7m/7yrs (the Canucks deal (BOS retention)) against $8m/5yrs. Norris is still favoured for less overall term, but these players aren't worlds apart in quality. And the downside risk for Norris is unmatched.

LTIR'ing $8m AAV is the worst outcome. It pushes them to re-structure the roster beyond Norris in a way that is anathema to cap accrual. The very thing they've been chasing since Benning left.

Next, it's disingenuous to now hand-wave EVPs as the main production tool by which to judge players. I've advocated for PPPs in the past, it doesn't fly here. (For whatever reason)

On PPPs: Last 3 years, Norris PPPs per 82 games: 17.5 PPPs (23PPPs/108GP), Lindholm's PPPs per 82 games: 16.6 PPPs (43PPPs/212GP).

In Lindholm's D+3 to D+8 years (2015-16 to 2019-20) he still beat Norris' EVPs/GP (36 EVP average to 32 EVP average) (169EVPs/386GP).

The best argument against Lindholm is age related decline, but this does not usually happen at 30 years of age. Therefore, it's more likely to be poor play mixed with a bad fit.

They're both cap dumps.

 

[wonton15]

Elias Lindholm

 

[Bobby9]

Yep, you're on an island here. No team will ever rebuild until they have to. As long as Quinn Hughes is on this team, they will push, and there's zero chance he's traded in the next year. If the team is out of the playoffs at next year's deadline and he's signalling he doesn't want to re-sign, he could theoretically be moved, but even then I would expect that would wait until the summer and the team would be looking for win now assets even then.

Worthwhile to note that the defence looks good without him playing right now.

This could be a very decent defence in a couple of seasons if Quinn was moved:

MP - Hronek
EP25 - Willander
Kudratsev - Myers

They'd obviously be getting a boatload of star talent back to bolster their forward corps and with all the homegrown talent their defence would be very cost effective. They are probably 2-3 star level forwards away from contender status, but Lekkerimaki projects to be a top line sniper.

Yes I am on an island but I am big on drafting, developing and moving players that don’t align w the actual window of the team.

EP is finished as a 1C. He could fill in as a 60-80 point 2C for the remainder of his contract but that’s his upside right now. Bad value. This downgrade in personnel has shut our window.

Because we lack the ability to contend Hughes would be smart to walk. I don’t know if he will but theirs no value in watching a superstar waste his career on a team.

I’d send him to Jersey but really what can we get from them? Nico ++?

San Jose or Chicago are the teams I would target.

Lev + Nazar

Smith + Dicksonson

Both of those trade the future of the team from a single asset.

We’re entering Flames territory w Hughes. How long do you want to stay there?

 

[Bobby9]

Elias Lindholm the "negative value garbage cap dump nobody would take for free" according to some geniuses here, has One less goal and four less points than the constantly vehemently defended, chronically tendinitised 11.6 ...

People aren’t ready to have this convo yet bro. It’s Valentines Day. Don’t break hearts.

Lindholm and his contract is actually better than EP116.

 

[VanJack]

On the Hockey Rumors site, it's being reported that the Calgary Flames are sniffing around Carson Soucy.

Of course Soucy would have to waive to go anywhere, but his hometown is Viking. Alberta. So the Flames are his home-town team.

Not sure what Soucy would fetch from the Flames--and I'm sure Allvin would be looking for some sort of guy who could be plugged into the current lineup, rather than draft picks.

Calgary and Vancouver have done a surprising amount of business on the trade front in the last couple of seasons, so I guess it's 'possible'.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

To reiterate—that the Ottawa Senators are making such a player available should set off alarm bells.

Some of us have lost our ability to critically think. Why would they be so ready to get rid of a player that profiles like that?

The frequency of his shoulder surgeries sure make it seem like there is an inherent deficiency there that cannot be avoided with better training or physio.

If it could be mitigated—the Sens wouldn’t be jettisoning a relatively young right shot center who can produce and be defensively reliable.

He's left shot.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

What hockey player has ever been made available with zero risk involved? We should be looking at risk mitigation, not risk elimination.

Risk elimination is tantamount to just packing it in and calling it a day. Give up.

Even Gretzky got traded. This is ultimately a business.

@Bobby9 i like you but you’re talking like a loser would. Just thought I’d chime in there. Players like Petey don’t just pack it in. I don’t think he will be getting better this season, but it’s an investment. You don’t pull out investments that you have conviction in. Otherwise you’d lose money left and right. I think we are just seeing a player in metamorphosis. He will have to evolve as a player. If he comes in not ready to go next year, you cut the loss then.

Otherwise we will just be talking about a year where we made 2 Cam Neely trades.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

People aren’t ready to have this convo yet bro. It’s Valentines Day. Don’t break hearts.

Lindholm and his contract is actually better than EP116.

Just so I'm clear.

You think Lindholm is a better player than EP40?

Or you just think his contract will age better?

Either way, this is the clownest of clown takes inspired entirely by some weird emotional vendetta and I won't be forgetting this take by you.

Curious, do you think there is a single NHL GM who would trade EP40 for Lindholm's aging legs and bad contract?

Or is this a Dunning-Kreuger situation where they wouldn't because they're not as tapped in as you are?

 

[VanJack]

Hockey Writers site with a nice write-up on Drew O'Connor's trip to Vancouver, after finding out about the trade at 11 p.m. in Pittsburgh and climbing on a plane at the crack of dawn.

What got my attention was O'Connor's effusive praise of the Canuck dressing-room and how upbeat and welcoming everyone has been. Said he obviously had no idea of what had gone on in the past; but that as of today, it's a great group of guys with a great attitude.

I suppose every incoming player usually says the same thing. But from the sounds of things, the 'room' is light-years better than it was before the Miller trade.