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[JAK]

If you go to capfriendly and play around, there is simply not enough money if we want to keep Zadorov, Lindholm, Joshua and get a winger for Petey.
So the question will be, where do we cut? Mik, Garland and Soucy could all be potentially play not because they suck but because the cap demands it. I think we are all like whatever when it comes to Mik but there will probably be hard decisions when it comes to Garland and Soucy.
Like if we can get Gunetzel and Tanev along with Z, Lindholm and Joshua back, would trading Soucy and Garland be worth it? I would lean towards yeah.


It’s not just Hronek, even if you bake in his cap at 7 it’s still tight.

If Hronek's agent won't budge and wants $7, we can get a good package for his rights.

Right now Hronek is worth $6 at best to me. He can't carry a pair.

 

[WTG]

zadorov played 9 seconds more than soucy last game. this season soucy averaged 17:29 and zadorov averaged 17:04 with the canucks.

Zadorov averages 20:00 per game compared to Soucy's 17:26 so far in the playoffs.

My guess is that carries forward into next year if they keep Zadorov around.

 

[MS]

There is a 0% chance that Carson Soucy is moved, which is as it should be.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

If you go to capfriendly and play around, there is simply not enough money if we want to keep Zadorov, Lindholm, Joshua and get a winger for Petey.
So the question will be, where do we cut? Mik, Garland and Soucy could all be potentially play not because they suck but because the cap demands it. I think we are all like whatever when it comes to Mik but there will probably be hard decisions when it comes to Garland and Soucy.
Like if we can get Gunetzel and Tanev along with Z, Lindholm and Joshua back, would trading Soucy and Garland be worth it? I would lean towards yeah.


It’s not just Hronek, even if you bake in his cap at 7 it’s still tight.

Playing with capfriendly just now, I managed the following with only 1M over the cap on an assumed 87.7M cap

Lindholm: 7x7
Hronek: 7.3x5
Zadorov: 5x6
Joshua: 3x7
Silovs: 1.1x2
Toffoli: 4.4x4
Tanev: 3.5x4

Mikheyev was dumped, and Blueger, DeSmith, Myers, Cole and Lafferty all were let go.

Now you can clearly see I tried levying very generous term for sweet discounts. Joshua gets the Engvall contract, Tanev and Toffoli get years despite their ages. The sacrifice here would be to let Lindholm go, which frees up 6M since, like I said, I was over. We can then afford Blueger and another cheaper UFA while trialing the likes of Raty for a hopeful fit.

Will the strategy of term over dollar work? We won't know until July but Lindholm is the easy choice to let go here. And for those less enthused about Toffoli, he's just an easy placeholder for getting Pettersson some help. We can just assume that budget is Mikheyev's contract.

Trying to nab Guenztel really throws a wrench in all of this. He's someone I just don't think we can afford without blowing out some huge holes.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

What is stopping Tanev from signing a low cap contract and be paired with Soucy as a defacto shut down pair?

In fact,

Hughes - Hronek
Zadorov - Tanev
Soucy - Myers
Juulsen

Wouldnt be too bad, if Cole wants to return with league min, that would be swell too.

Let Allvin cook and we will see what happens.

This would be perfect only we won't have the cap to get all this done.

 

[JAK]

This would be perfect only we won't have the cap to get all this done.

Pettersson's NMC doesn't kick in until July 1st 2025.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Playing with capfriendly just now, I managed the following with only 1M over the cap on an assumed 87.7M cap

Lindholm: 7x7
Hronek: 7.3x5
Zadorov: 5x6
Joshua: 3x7
Silovs: 1.1x2
Toffoli: 4.4x4
Tanev: 3.5x4

Mikheyev was dumped, and Blueger, DeSmith, Myers, Cole and Lafferty all were let go.

Now you can clearly see I tried levying very generous term for sweet discounts. Joshua gets the Engvall contract, Tanev and Toffoli get years despite their ages. The sacrifice here would be to let Lindholm go, which frees up 6M since, like I said, I was over. We can then afford Blueger and another cheaper UFA while trialing the likes of Raty for a hopeful fit.

Will the strategy of term over dollar work? We won't know until July but Lindholm is the easy choice to let go here. And for those less enthused about Toffoli, he's just an easy placeholder for getting Pettersson some help. We can just assume that budget is Mikheyev's contract.

Trying to nab Guenztel really throws a wrench in all of this. He's someone I just don't think we can afford without blowing out some huge holes.

To make this more visual:

My thinking for LW2 is possibly Bertuzzi, Duclair, Henique or possibly Teravainen. All 20+ goal, 50+ point players.

I know a lot of people here turned their nose up on Duclair but he played exceptional after getting traded to Tampa (15 points in 17 games). A cheaper option like him means we could keep Blueger, or maybe chase Zucker, who isn't getting 5M.

Then we around it out with a veteran 7th defenseman.

 

[sting101]

Horvat was likely part of the 'stink' of the lockerroom that has been alluded to constantly. If the coach wanted to keep Horvat around, he would have been kept around. Pretty obvious. I'm sure he could have played in Tocchet's system, but the FO obviously would have ran trading him through Tocchet.

If you don't think Tocchet had a role to play in Horvat being traded, I really don't know what to tell you.

You don't just trade your captain when you get a new coach after 3 games.

This isn't fair to Horvat. Bo is a good person wasn't controversial is a very good player and absolutely he could be part of this team today if he wasn't already the captain and wanted too much money and term

The only thing i've heard is that Bo struggled with taking leadership with the players and started to lose respect because he wouldn't hold anyone accountable and wasn't setting a high standard even for himself.

The coaches (Boudreau Cull King) and captain (Horvat) knew that they were being cast out to set new standards new leadership and a new culture and that made part of the stink. OEL Kuzmenko and whoever else who wasn't buying in would have made the rest

 

[TruGr1t]

Everyone is way too low on the Tanev AAV, the consensus seems to be he'll get close to $5M following the playoffs.

 

[arttk]

Playing with capfriendly just now, I managed the following with only 1M over the cap on an assumed 87.7M cap

Lindholm: 7x7
Hronek: 7.3x5
Zadorov: 5x6
Joshua: 3x7
Silovs: 1.1x2
Toffoli: 4.4x4
Tanev: 3.5x4

Mikheyev was dumped, and Blueger, DeSmith, Myers, Cole and Lafferty all were let go.

Now you can clearly see I tried levying very generous term for sweet discounts. Joshua gets the Engvall contract, Tanev and Toffoli get years despite their ages. The sacrifice here would be to let Lindholm go, which frees up 6M since, like I said, I was over. We can then afford Blueger and another cheaper UFA while trialing the likes of Raty for a hopeful fit.

Will the strategy of term over dollar work? We won't know until July but Lindholm is the easy choice to let go here. And for those less enthused about Toffoli, he's just an easy placeholder for getting Pettersson some help. We can just assume that budget is Mikheyev's contract.

Trying to nab Guenztel really throws a wrench in all of this. He's someone I just don't think we can afford without blowing out some huge holes.

I would not spend the money on Toffoli, I basically similar numbers you had but had Joshua at 4. I traded away Garland and Soucy in mine for Guentzel and Lindholm.
Yeah the 3rd paring is not great but that was the trade off for beefing up the center and winger depth and having 3 scoring forward pairs.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Everyone is way too low on the Tanev AAV, the consensus seems to be he'll get close to $5M following the playoffs.

Ideally, he takes less because we offer him 4-5 years when very few if any teams would. If not, we could still probably squeeze him in but have to go for the cheaper winger option like a Duclair. Personally, I don't think Tanev should be an absolute priority even if I'd love to have him back.

I would not spend the money on Toffoli, I basically similar numbers you had but had Joshua at 4. I traded away Garland and Soucy in mine for Guentzel and Lindholm.
Yeah the 3rd paring is not great but that was the trade off for beefing up the center and winger depth and having 3 scoring forward pairs.

Like I said, Toffoli is the easy placeholder. I'd target Guentzel but if we strike out there, I do prefer Toffoli over say, Bertuzzi. Although, we might be able to sign them both. I really don't think Lindholm works unless Pettersson is converted to a winger. 6-7 for a third line center just isn't good value imo.

 

[Jerry the great]

Pettersson's NMC doesn't kick in until July 1st 2025.

I'm sure Carolina's soon to be early playoff exit won't have their management team pondering the whole "always a bridesmaid, never a bride" label.

 

[arttk]

To make this more visual:

View attachment 868182

My thinking for LW2 is possibly Bertuzzi, Duclair, Henique or possibly Teravainen. All 20+ goal, 50+ point players.

I know a lot of people here turned their nose up on Duclair but he played exceptional after getting traded to Tampa (15 points in 17 games). A cheaper option like him means we could keep Blueger, or maybe chase Zucker, who isn't getting 5M.

Then we around it out with a veteran 7th defenseman.

I did this.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Unpopular opinion but I really don't wanna sign Tanev unless he signs a super friendly hometown discount.

Guys getting old and not going to be worth what he'll get on the open market.

 

[Jerry the great]

I would not spend the money on Toffoli, I basically similar numbers you had but had Joshua at 4. I traded away Garland and Soucy in mine for Guentzel and Lindholm.
Yeah the 3rd paring is not great but that was the trade off for beefing up the center and winger depth and having 3 scoring forward pairs.

you want to trade the best player on the 3rd line - who's signed for two more years at less than $5MM - in order to pay the 3rd best player $7MM for 7 years....is that correct?

 

[Jerry the great]

View attachment 868201

I did this.

the fourth line and bottom d pair would be treated like a new inmate in a maximum security prison.

 

[arttk]

you want to trade the best player on the 3rd line - who's signed for two more years at less than $5MM - in order to pay the 3rd best player $7MM for 7 years....is that correct?

Yes, center depth >>> winger. I see Lindholm as a ~60 point guy and I think him and Joshua could be a good pair.

 

[arttk]

the fourth line and bottom d pair would be treated like a new inmate in a maximum security prison.

there are going to be holes with our cap situation

Ideally, he takes less because we offer him 4-5 years when very few if any teams would. If not, we could still probably squeeze him in but have to go for the cheaper winger option like a Duclair. Personally, I don't think Tanev should be an absolute priority even if I'd love to have him back.



Like I said, Toffoli is the easy placeholder. I'd target Guentzel but if we strike out there, I do prefer Toffoli over say, Bertuzzi. Although, we might be able to sign them both. I really don't think Lindholm works unless Pettersson is converted to a winger. 6-7 for a third line center just isn't good value imo.

i think if we get Lindholm, at some point he would center Miller if Raty can play like a 3rd line C in 2 years.

 

[TruGr1t]

Ideally, he takes less because we offer him 4-5 years when very few if any teams would. If not, we could still probably squeeze him in but have to go for the cheaper winger option like a Duclair. Personally, I don't think Tanev should be an absolute priority even if I'd love to have him back.

No idea how big is love affair with Vancouver is but I can see the Leafs making a stupid offer and Dallas will offer something competitive.

I can see them trying to bring back basically the same blue line if they can get Zadorov, Hronek and Myers on reasonable contracts. I think if you move Mikheyev you can probably manage this as is.

Issue is now Lindholm has turned into a beast and I sort of want to keep him, but you’re not doing that unless you swap Hronek out for a lower cap d-man.

 

[arttk]

No idea how big is love affair with Vancouver is but I can see the Leafs making a stupid offer and Dallas will offer something competitive.

I can see them trying to bring back basically the same blue line if they can get Zadorov, Hronek and Myers on reasonable contracts. I think if you move Mikheyev you can probably manage this as is.

Issue is now Lindholm has turned into a beast and I sort of want to keep him, but you’re not doing that unless you swap Hronek out for a lower cap d-man.

JR is not the running it back kind of guy

 

[TruGr1t]

JR is not the running it back kind of guy

May not have a choice, even moving Mikheyev I don't see how you bring all the free agents back, add a defenseman, and upgrade the top-six, there probably won't be enough space. If you can afford to keep the defense intact you upgrade the scoring with what's left.

This is assuming they don't move Hronek and Mikheyev, which open up the opportunity to more drastically play around with the roster.

 

[arttk]

May not have a choice, even moving Mikheyev I don't see how you bring all the free agents back, add a defenseman, and upgrade the top-six, there probably won't be enough space. If you can afford to keep the defense intact you upgrade the scoring with what's left.

That’s why I think everyone outside of a handful of guys could be on the table.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Soucy right now is 5th in TOI/GP. Tochett clearly prefers Zadorov over him. Soucy also has a pretty significant injury history.

Right now, Soucy is the on the 3rd pairing defense and basically has been this entire season (got injured early and then Zadorov came in). That's 3.25m to play 17:30 minutes a night. Compared to Zadorov's 20 minutes a night in the playoffs.

Is Soucy a good defenseman? Yes.
If you keep Zadorov are you playing Soucy over him? No.

It's a wild proposal sure, but they need to get creative to keep some of their guys who are playoff preformers.

It’s a perfectly reasonable idea - don’t let these guys gaslight you. Groupthink is too common here.

People here protecting Carson Soucy here like he’s McDavid is hilarious. If we can get some value (3rd rounder) for Soucy, that would be great value.

We can get someone in the 1-1.5M salary range to fill in 80% of what he brings. It’s called cap efficiency but a lot of people don’t know how that works around here.

 

[JohnHodgson]

It’s not out there because you aren’t trading an excellent value contract at a position of need.

Soucy is our 3 LD behind Zadorov and Hughes. He’s hardly someone that we’d lose sleep over if we traded.

His contract is fair market value… where are you getting “excellent value”? He’s a decent bottom pairing defenseman and being laid accordingly.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

It’s a perfectly reasonable idea - don’t let these guys gaslight you. Groupthink is too common here.

People here protecting Carson Soucy here like he’s McDavid is hilarious. If we can get some value (3rd rounder) for Soucy, that would be great value.

We can get someone in the 1-1.5M salary range to fill in 80% of what he brings. It’s called cap efficiency but a lot of people don’t know how that works around here.

First and foremost, how is it gaslighting to disagree with someone? By that logic, everyone telling me Duclair wasn't worth picking up at the deadline was gaslighting. Or the actual reason. They just didn't agree.

Second. You do realize the probability of a third round pick becoming an impact player is estimated to be roughly 12%, yes? That doesn't necessarily mean they will be good either, just something. How is that "great value" for a contending team looking to make the playoffs?

3rd-7th picks are little more than darts at a board. You might get lucky, you probably won't.

You're basically trying to find a free agent close enough to Soucy... who will also take half the dollar amount. I mean, sure... if we can find that player. Odds are another team is offering them a lot more than 1.5M.