Canucks Managerial Thread II

[Wildcarder]

I posted this earlier this summer with the Sutter signing....but essentially this:

Group A
Dorsett | 2.65
Sbisa | 3.6
Prust | 2.5
Sutter | 3.3
Bartowski | 1.75
Miller | 6.0
TOTAL | 19.8M - 6 players + 3rd (lack trade) + 3rd (sutter trade) + 7th (lack trade)

Group B
Bonino | 1.9
Stanton | 0.575
Bieksa | 4.6
Matthias | 2.3
Richardson | 2.08
Kassian | 1.75
Lack | 1.15
TOTAL | 14.35M - 7 players + forsling + 5th (prust trade)
*removed 2nd for sutter trade because we acquired that from bieksa trade

Which group would you rather have?

 

[MS]

It's almost like in addition to his obvious lack of sales and marketing experience, JB lacks in a basic understanding of supply and demand economics.

Yep... it's almost like he's got zero post-secondary education and is operating a multi-million dollar enterprise in week-to-week increments.

I think I'd trust a good fantasy hockey GM over JB any day of the week.

It really is astonishing how unqualified this group is to be running a multi-million dollar corporation.

A president with no hockey experience and no post-secondary education whose last job was shilling contact lenses in TV commercials.

A GM who is an ex-scout with no business experience and no post-secondary education.

Even Donut Dave had a business degree and years of contract experience before becoming GM here. Burke was a lawyer with scads of experience as an agent and executive. Gillis/Gilman are self-explanatory.

 

[HankNDank]

I posted this earlier this summer with the Sutter signing....but essentially this:

Group A
Dorsett | 2.65
Sbisa | 3.6
Prust | 2.5
Sutter | 4.4
Miller | 6.0
TOTAL | 19.15M - 5 players + 3rd (lack trade) + 3rd (sutter trade) + 7th (lack trade)

Group B
Bonino | 1.9
Stanton | 0.575
Matthias | 2.3
Richardson | 2.08
Kassian | 1.75
Lack | 1.15
TOTAL | 9.75M - 6 players + forsling + 2nd (sutter trade) + 5th (prust trade)

Which group would you rather have?

Why would you use Sutters contract starting next year, and not Lack(2.75M), Miller(UFA) or Matthias(UFA), and then leave out Bieksa(4.6M)? Just to make you numbers look more favorable to your argument?

I am in agreement with you that players out are probably better than players in, sans Sutter/Bonino (but we had to add extra to make that deal). At the end of the day, we have 3 scoring lines now with a capable defense, so no point crying over spilled milk here.

 

[arttk]

I posted this earlier this summer with the Sutter signing....but essentially this:

Group A
Dorsett | 2.65
Sbisa | 3.6
Prust | 2.5
Sutter | 4.4
Miller | 6.0
TOTAL | 19.15M - 5 players + 3rd (lack trade) + 3rd (sutter trade) + 7th (lack trade)

Group B
Bonino | 1.9
Stanton | 0.575
Matthias | 2.3
Richardson | 2.08
Kassian | 1.75
Lack | 1.15
TOTAL | 9.75M - 6 players + forsling + 2nd (sutter trade) + 5th (prust trade)

Which group would you rather have?

Forgot Bart in the 1st group, technically he is the Stanton replacement.

 

[greasy goals]

It really is astonishing how unqualified this group is to be running a multi-million dollar corporation.

A president with no hockey experience and no post-secondary education whose last job was shilling contact lenses in TV commercials.

A GM who is an ex-scout with no business experience and no post-secondary education.

Even Donut Dave had a business degree and years of contract experience before becoming GM here. Burke was a lawyer with scads of experience as an agent and executive. Gillis/Gilman are self-explanatory.

Yeah, if you're the Aquilinis, how does that not make you nervous? I wonder how they're feeling right now.

 

[Wildcarder]

Why would you use Sutters contract starting next year, and not Lack(2.75M), Miller(UFA) or Matthias(UFA), and then leave out Bieksa(4.6M)? Just to make you numbers look more favorable to your argument?

I am in agreement with you that players out are probably better than players in, sans Sutter/Bonino (but we had to add extra to make that deal). At the end of the day, we have 3 scoring lines now with a capable defense, so no point crying over spilled milk here.

When I originally posted this Lack hadn't been signed yet but you're correct in that I should have used Sutter's current year's contract which I've now edited to adjust. Also Miller is not UFA next year (unfortunately.)

I originally left out Bieksa as well because I believe that trade needed to have happened regardless, but for argument's sake and consistency's sake I added both Bieksa and Bartowski to balance it out to give a better comparison of the overall body of work and not pick and choose, although you can see how much better this team could have been if we did in fact pick and choose from the moves (i.e. traded Bieksa, signed Richardson, traded Miller, not signed Matthias, etc.)

It still looks terrible from an asset management standpoint, which was really the whole point of the post. We're paying more for less and we gave up on prospects and picks to get there. As someone mentioned earlier, death by a thousand paper cuts.

 

[NucksRuleYep]

Jim Benning's plan will begin to unfold, TONIGHT!

Haters gonna have to stop hating after we crush the flames twice in a row to open the season 2-0.

 

[racerjoe]

Here is what bugs me about the corrodo thing, and why it was a bad move. It was easily avoidable. Why make a decision now you can make later. As many posters have mentioned, who knows how our defence will be when Higgins gets back. But also maybe another team runs into injury problems. You could have better luck later with a trade. There was just no need to lose another asset now. I get he has regressed and was out played. But we didn't need to make the decision now.

 

[fancouver]

It really is astonishing how unqualified this group is to be running a multi-million dollar corporation.

A president with no hockey experience and no post-secondary education whose last job was shilling contact lenses in TV commercials.

A GM who is an ex-scout with no business experience and no post-secondary education.

Even Donut Dave had a business degree and years of contract experience before becoming GM here. Burke was a lawyer with scads of experience as an agent and executive. Gillis/Gilman are self-explanatory.

What does post-secondary education have anything to do with running a hockey team? It's not even correlated.

Yzerman and Bowman are just a couple examples of guys without it and have done a heck of a job in that role.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Jim Benning's plan will begin to unfold, TONIGHT!

Haters gonna have to stop hating after we crush the flames twice in a row to open the season 2-0.

Yeah, because a 2-80 record would pretty much guarantee us Auston Matthews

 

[fancouver]

Yeah, because a 2-80 record would pretty much guarantee us Auston Matthews

If we really did get Matthews, we're going to be stacked at center.

Sedin
Matthews
Horvat
McCann
Sutter

Probably McCann will be traded in a package for a young Hamilton-type defenceman if he shows well.

 

[VanJack]

Everybody rags on about the Canucks amateur scouting staff, but I'm beginning to seriously wonder who does the pro scouting and how many misses do they get before the broom comes out....with Vey ensconced in the minors, Clendening shipped out of town, and with jury still decidedly out on Sbisa, Baertschi and Sutter, how many swings and misses is too many?....or is it just Benning?

 

[MS]

What does post-secondary education have anything to do with running a hockey team? It's not even correlated.

Yzerman and Bowman are just a couple examples of guys without it and have done a heck of a job in that role.

They're running a multi-million dollar business and negotiating contracts, etc. It isn't just evaluating hockey players. It's fair to say that some sort of education in business/law is a pretty big deal for someone in those positions - as they are for anyone in a major position with a major company.

Scotty Bowman was never a good GM and is from a different era. Stan Bowman has a finance degree. Yzerman is a rare successful case - but spent several years as an executive in a great Detroit organization and works under a team President with heaps of business experience named Steve Griggs.

The level of experience and education in this front office would be suspect for a BCHL team.

 

[thekernel]

Everybody rags on about the Canucks amateur scouting staff, but I'm beginning to seriously wonder who does the pro scouting and how many misses do they get before the broom comes out....with Vey ensconced in the minors, Clendening shipped out of town, and with jury still decidedly out on Sbisa, Baertschi and Sutter, how many swings and misses is too many?....or is it just Benning?

I don't think you know what "amateur scouting" means.

 

[God]

21. The Lack contract is a reminder that, when you hear about demands, always ask if it’s the first offer. In Vancouver, the rumour was Lack wanted $4-$4.5M, just like Mark Giordano wanted $9M in Calgary.

Never bid against yourself. Set the bar high. Negotiation 101.

dying of laughter here, pretty much implies that jim benning literally takes the player's first number and goes from there

 

[mathonwy]

What does post-secondary education have anything to do with running a hockey team? It's not even correlated.

Do you mean..

What does post-secondary education have anything to do with running a business?

or..

Why do people spend the time to get MBAs? Or BBAs? Or BComms?

or..

Why do they make people going through these programs take accounting, marketing, micro&macro economics and business law courses?

....

Did you know that a hockey team is a business?

How are they correlated?

Are you serious?

 

[mathonwy]

Why make a decision now you can make later.

Sbisa's contract... Dorsett's contract... Trading Kassian with only one season left before he becomes an RFA...

On a number of occasions, JB has shown that he operates in the here and now and has almost no business foresight.

Here's an interesting thought. When he traded Bonino and Clendening for Sutter, why wasn't the trade a trade-and-sign? Wouldn't you want a virtual guarantee that Sutter would sign at a certain rate before giving up Bonino AND Clendening?

Instead, he executed the trade and then started negotiations afterwards. And at this point of time Sutter pretty much had all the damn leverage in the world and could ask for the moon.

It's a real mickey mouse way of doing business and JB destroys his own leverage every single time.

 

[DL44]

I posted this earlier this summer with the Sutter signing....but essentially this:

Group A
Dorsett | 2.65
Sbisa | 3.6
Prust | 2.5
Sutter | 3.3
Bartowski | 1.75
Miller | 6.0
TOTAL | 19.8M - 6 players + 3rd (lack trade) + 3rd (sutter trade) + 7th (lack trade)

Group B
Bonino | 1.9
Stanton | 0.575
Bieksa | 4.6
Matthias | 2.3
Richardson | 2.08
Kassian | 1.75
Lack | 1.15
TOTAL | 14.35M - 7 players + forsling + 5th (prust trade)
*removed 2nd for sutter trade because we acquired that from bieksa trade

Which group would you rather have?

No brainer for me...
Why would anyone think status quo would of been a good thing?

The speed difference from the two groups isn't comparable either.

 

[arsmaster*]

They're running a multi-million dollar business and negotiating contracts, etc. It isn't just evaluating hockey players. It's fair to say that some sort of education in business/law is a pretty big deal for someone in those positions - as they are for anyone in a major position with a major company.

Scotty Bowman was never a good GM and is from a different era. Stan Bowman has a finance degree. Yzerman is a rare successful case - but spent several years as an executive in a great Detroit organization and works under a team President with heaps of business experience named Steve Griggs.

The level of experience and education in this front office would be suspect for a BCHL team.

Don't forget the TB AGM Brisebois who has a law degree.

 

[PM]

That's why Higgins couldn't go on LTIR. We don't have anyone who knows how to file the paperwork.

 

[Vtownfan]

That's why Higgins couldn't go on LTIR. We don't have anyone who knows how to file the paperwork.

More likely they don't have anyone familiar enough with the cap to do the gymnastics Gilman used to pull.

When Trevor was first being interviewed he honestly sounded like he didn't know it was an option to move pieces and keep Corrado.

The "we just didn't want him to sit as the 8th dman" and "corrado needed to play" narrative came after.

 

[VanillaCoke]

More likely they don't have anyone familiar enough with the cap to do the gymnastics Gilman used to pull.

When Trevor was first being interviewed he honestly sounded like he didn't know it was an option to move pieces and keep Corrado.

The "we just didn't want him to sit as the 8th dman" and "corrado needed to play" narrative came after.

Ironically corrado is a healthy scratch tonight.

 

[RandV]

The more I look at the players we lost or gave away from the start of last year the more I think what is the big deal? Bieksa, Mathias, Richardson, Sestito, Stanton, Lack, Kassian, Bonino and Corrado. Bieksa is the only 4 million dollar player among them and he is overpaid 6th dman. Is the lost of these players really a big deal. They all are depth players or non Nhl players on a good team. Bonino was a 4 the liner on Anaheim while Richardson was a healthy scratch. Mathias got a smallish contract from the worst team in the league. Stanton and Corrado spares. Sestito less and Kassiam is in rehab. Lack is the only guy with any hope of being a regret. Really are losing these guys worth whining about? Benning has brought in borderline players but they are replacing borderline players. Dorsett Prust Sbsia are not much but the are replacing non productive players. Benning has not done much to get credit but has done nothing really harmful neither. If the young guys progress this year his tenure will has been successful thus far. Hopefully the young guys become more while the Sedins are still productive. Our hope rests with Horvat and the gang. Big picture the Canucks are in better shape than the start of last year as they are faster and younger. Strangely enough that is exactly what Benning and Linden said they wanted. It is like there is a plan. Hope it works and the Canucks turn it around on the fly.

You might want to do some fact checking there... Bonino was Anaheim's 3rd best forward the season we traded for him. He was their #2 center, meshed well with Getzlaf & Perry on the #1 PP, and among Anaheim forwards was 3rd in icetime and points behind the big duo.

Some people just can't seem to grasp the problem. The "big picture" is what the team has going for it now is mostly irrelevant to what Benning has done, and the key point being his 'pro scouting' is constantly bleeding future assets and crippling our cap structure.

 

[fancouver]

They're running a multi-million dollar business and negotiating contracts, etc. It isn't just evaluating hockey players. It's fair to say that some sort of education in business/law is a pretty big deal for someone in those positions - as they are for anyone in a major position with a major company.

Scotty Bowman was never a good GM and is from a different era. Stan Bowman has a finance degree. Yzerman is a rare successful case - but spent several years as an executive in a great Detroit organization and works under a team President with heaps of business experience named Steve Griggs.

The level of experience and education in this front office would be suspect for a BCHL team.

And here we are with a guy called John Weisbrod who graduated from Harvard, yet we have the same fanbase criticizing him for not knowing anything. The double standard here is quite the feat.

Do you mean..

What does post-secondary education have anything to do with running a business?

or..

Why do people spend the time to get MBAs? Or BBAs? Or BComms?

or..

Why do they make people going through these programs take accounting, marketing, micro&macro economics and business law courses?

....

Did you know that a hockey team is a business?

How are they correlated?

Are you serious?

I never questioned the value of post-secondary education in general, so it's pointless asking why people pursue MBAs and BBAs.

And you omitted the last part of my post when I mentioned Yzerman has been doing great as a GM.

It can be done.

 

[Ho Borvat]

That's why Higgins couldn't go on LTIR. We don't have anyone who knows how to file the paperwork.

More likely they don't have anyone familiar enough with the cap to do the gymnastics Gilman used to pull.

When Trevor was first being interviewed he honestly sounded like he didn't know it was an option to move pieces and keep Corrado.

The "we just didn't want him to sit as the 8th dman" and "corrado needed to play" narrative came after.

This is why the Gilman firing is so frustrating.

Even if Benning wants complete control, you can't ignore that Gilman was masterful at what he did. Obviously his role was reduced in Vancouver, but there is no way he shouldn't have been allowed to manage contract negotiations and manage the teams cap.